Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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To understand you have to know what else Paul said about the Law over the course of the epistles.There isn`t anything wrong with the law apart from the fact that it can`t save anybody.
Why is he so upset with the Galatians, telling them that by being circumcised they are bound to keep 'the whole law' and saying that they have made Christ of no effect by doing so?
Circumcision is definitely a command of the law, in fact, predating the law by hundreds of years, to Abraham.
 

RickStudies

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Sep 10, 2019
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Yet your argument was that both paul and jesus tauht following the law

Your hurting your own case man.
Jesus did. In the case of Paul we never progressed far enough to really talk about it. Neither point addresses what we as Gentiles should do.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Jesus did. In the case of Paul we never progressed far enough to really talk about it. Neither point addresses what we as Gentiles should do.
Yet you believe we should obey the law

Come on. Admit it

The law comes as a unit, you cant break it up, if you preach we must oney part, you are indebted to follow all

Those are pauls words not mine
 

RickStudies

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Sep 10, 2019
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Why is he so upset with the Galatians, telling them that by being circumcised they are bound to keep 'the whole law' and saying that they have made Christ of no effect by doing so?
Circumcision is definitely a command of the law, in fact, predating the law by hundreds of years, to Abraham.
There were some Jews who were influencing the Galations towards becoming proselytes and leading them to believe in circumcision as a component of salvation.

It`s not a sin to be circumcized.
 

RickStudies

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Sep 10, 2019
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Yet you believe we should obey the law

Come on. Admit it

The law comes as a unit, you cant break it up, if you preach we must oney part, you are indebted to follow all

Those are pauls words not mine
These are all Paul`s words, his doctrine and teaching. Your arguments against this does not hold up, hence, strawman.

Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 

RickStudies

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Sep 10, 2019
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The law says that sacrifice is only acceptable at the place He chose for Himself, at the temple. Deuteronomy 12 for example.

Samaritans did not worship there, however, but on another mountain.

Jesus did not tell the woman at the well that the Samaritans must keep the commandment and bring their gifts to the proper place. In fact, He told her, the time is coming and now is, when we should worship neither on one mountain or another, but in spirit and truth.
The Samaritans religeon was seperate from the rest of Israel. They did not have to go to the temple.
 

RickStudies

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Sep 10, 2019
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I can a spade a spade, i call a liar a lair

And remember, you called me a liar first, (saying u made a false accusation is saying i lied)

Another hypocritical do as i say not as i do.
You forget the big difference. I didn`t lie, while you have made false accusation.
 

RickStudies

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Sep 10, 2019
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I liked the 1587 Geneva. KJV made a lot of changes.


Isnt that kind of like criticizing God's handwriting, if He indeed writes His precepts on a man's heart?
Like, you are saying God doesn't write legibly. But scripture says there are those who do not have the law, yet keep the righteous requirement of it -

Romans 2:14
For when the Gentiles which haue not the Lawe, doe by nature, the things conteined in the Lawe, they hauing not the Lawe, are a Lawe vnto themselves, Which shew the effect of the Lawe written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witnes, and their thoughts accusing one another, or excusing,)

Showing the writing of the law in their hearts - seems like God has handwriting that's perfectly sufficient. According to scripture.
You can contrive whatever excuse you want. Fact remains that Christians need to study the Bible.


15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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sin couldn`t be forgiven until the cross.
so your position is that David's sin wasn't removed?

David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD.
And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin

(2 Samuel 12:13)
how do you explain the fact that YHWH's position is contrary to yours?
there's no sacrifice in the law for murder, or for adultery. what happened?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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You can contrive whatever excuse you want. Fact remains that Christians need to study the Bible.

did i say don't study the Bible? no, i didn't.

in fact haven't i been asking question after question about the scripture, quoting from it and exploring it, mutually encouraging us to study it?



 

RickStudies

Active member
Sep 10, 2019
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so your position is that David's sin wasn't removed?

David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD.
And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin
(2 Samuel 12:13)
how do you explain the fact that YHWH's position is contrary to yours?
there's no sacrifice in the law for murder, or for adultery. what happened?
My position is Hebrews 10. Once again, I`ll refer you to my credit analogy a few posts back.
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
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Moses killed he nation of Caananites, his ancestors, and the Bible tells us he killed thousands. There is a figure for it somewhere. Suffice it to say, Moses was a murderer.
Do you realize that under the law of Moses, you had to physically commit the act, with premeditation, to be guilty of the sin of murder? Don't you thank God to be free of that bondage to sin and death and thank Jesus for freeing us, for tearing that veil, because under the law of the kingdom of God (the one we are under right now-Grace), all we have to do is "think :unsure:on it or ponder:unsure: it, and we are guilty:eek::eek::eek: And we have no excuses before God, His laws are written in our hearts and minds. There will never be any " I did knows", will there?

I can't imagine living in a world without the spirit, and repentance, and forgiveness upon the asking through the blood of Jesus, made clean again. Have you ever thought about how many people you have killed because you thought about it?

Moses
Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the (y)(n) judgment

God
Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council but whosoever shall say, Thou fool shall be in danger of hell fire.


Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Romans 11:20 Well because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear
Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God on them which fell, severity but toward thee goodness if thou continue in His goodness otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

If God cuts off His own, He most certainly will cut off His adopted. His own cut off by unbelief. His adopted cut off by highmindedness, boasting, and not continuing in His goodness.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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There were some Jews who were influencing the Galations towards becoming proselytes and leading them to believe in circumcision as a component of salvation.

do you believe anyone has salvation, or only a hope that maybe they will receive it on the last day?
what do you believe is necessary to secure that hope?

what do you believe would be necessary to actually have salvation?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Do you realize that under the law of Moses, you had to physically commit the act, with premeditation, to be guilty of the sin of murder? Don't you thank God to be free of that bondage to sin and death and thank Jesus for freeing us, for tearing that veil, because under the law of the kingdom of God (the one we are under right now-Grace), all we have to do is "think :unsure:on it or ponder:unsure: it, and we are guilty:eek::eek::eek: And we have no excuses before God, His laws are written in our hearts and minds. There will never be any " I did knows", will there?

I can't imagine living in a world without the spirit, and repentance, and forgiveness upon the asking through the blood of Jesus, made clean again. Have you ever thought about how many people you have killed because you thought about it?

Moses
Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the (y)(n) judgment

God
Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council but whosoever shall say, Thou fool shall be in danger of hell fire.


Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Romans 11:20 Well because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear
Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God on them which fell, severity but toward thee goodness if thou continue in His goodness otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

If God cuts off His own, He most certainly will cut off His adopted. His own cut off by unbelief. His adopted cut off by highmindedness, boasting, and not continuing in His goodness.
It was premeditated.
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
1,411
545
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As the Word and Spirit have given me

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets I am not come to destroy (the law) but to fulfil (the prophecies written of Jesus within the first 5 books of the bible called "the law")

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

NOT TO DESTROY THE LAW OR THE PROPHETS, BUT COME TO FULFILL THE PROPHECIES WRITTEN WITH IN THEM


EVERYTHING written in the Law given to Moses will always be part of that law. That said, being a part of that law, doesn't mean it can never be a part of another law, a better law, a lighter free-er law.

I have seen it explained as "till all the law be fulfilled" but that makes no sense as Jesus as some law can only be "obeyed", it can't be fulfilled as prophecy is fulfilled, not obeyed.

Luke 24:44 And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses and in the prophets and in the psalms, concerning me.

JESUS ONLY HAD TO FULFILL THE THINGS WRITTEN CONCERNING HIM, AND THE THINGS CONCERNING HIM, WERE WRITTEN

The Old Testament was divided into the three divisions of "the law, the prophets, and the psalms".

JESUS DID NOT HAVE TO FULFILL ANYTHING WRITTEN THAT WAS NOT PROPHECY CONCERNING HIM, HE STILL HAD TO OBEY THE LAW IN ITS INTENDED PURPOSE, WITH LOVE.

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


WHAT IS THE MESSAGE FROM JESUS "REPENTANCE AND REMISSION OF SIN" no more bondage to sin and death, no more curse, no more break one break all, AND death. HIS BLOOD SHED, NEW COVENANT, REPENT, HAVE YOUR SIN TAKEN AWAY, BE WASHED CLEAN,

how many times did God tell us to forgive in one day? how many times are we to ask for forgiveness? "GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD AND FORGIVE US...." FOR LIFE.

I have heard it explained other ways but through study and prayer it was given me

The commandments God wrote on the tablets of stone are now written upon our hearts and minds and doesn't matter if they were ever a part of the law of Moses, the commands of God are eternal, natural for a holy society.

I have heard, "law of Moses" was" one and can not be divided" and as such.....I gotta tell you, I have no idea what that is really all about. I have an idea it "must" be put forth that way to support some "theory". I am not saying is does or doesn't I am saying it doesn't matter if it was one or not, It has become null and void as it "was", and has been rendered to us in its new form.

The New Covenant only "contains" PARTS of the old. God took away parts that were against us. Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies for that time that had been written in them. Jesus gave us more intense commands because now it is not only physical, it is emotional and mental as well.

For me the logic of some "explanations" is just.....NON SEQUITUR - latin "it does not follow" "a statement that does not follow logically from what has gone on before".

Not all explanations make it as Gods truth. And when you read something and scratch you head and think "that doesn't make sense" it probably doesn't, except possibly to someone using it to "support" something else.


If it is through faith in Jesus you have received the gifts including salvation, and through His blood shed, as the Lamb of God we can now, without any ceremony or an animal sacrifice, or any man priest, or a special day, prayerfully repent for our sin, then He is faithful to forgive us and washed clean are now free to walk right into the holy of holies and talk to Our Father. Jesus paid an awesome price to set us free from all the parts of the law that bound us to death. We now find life with Jesus as our High Priest. living as best we can under Grace. Never again will we be bound to sin and death. Jesus defeated death. Oh death where is thy sting? Gone, baby Gone.