Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[FollowtheShepherd]

The N. T. was not yet formed, but there was oral transmission.

Let's read Acts 15 again:

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

See? No greater burden than these necessary things -- nothing else.

But then you just told me not stealing was also included. You can't have it both ways.

If it is ONLY those things then stealing is permitted.

Or those were some basic things the holy spirit guided them to require for ppl to enter a congregation/place of worship. Then once they were there they would learn more;

Acts 15:19-21, " 19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”

 

[SimpleGardner]

It depends by what you mean by "following the savior"

do we follow his example (the way he did everything or the purpose or reason he did it)

or do we follow his actions and everything he did (which no one can do. because no one is perfect)

if we MUST follow his actions. we have no hope.

Please don't think that just because in the form of dust that we are, and because we cannot reach 100% all the time that Yahshua or Paul would simply say don't bother. Look below;

(Eph 4:12 KJV) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
(Eph 4:13 KJV) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

There is so much more than acquiescing to our condition, through faith "in Christ" and through the work of the anointing of the Holy Spirit, walk in the newness of life and the fullness of Christ! But it is not a passive thing EG, You must submit your flesh to the cross and walk in the newness of life, not spend every day saying it's not part of the walk....

SG

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

where is this found in the law of moses?

That is prophesy, which is somethign totally different.

What? Wow.

OK here we go:

Luke 24:44-45, " 44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,"

Matt 5: 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

the law and the prophets are mentioned.

The most prophesied thing in the old testament is Jesus 2nd coming.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

No, but the Lord Jesus said before His death on the cross: "It is finished", and besides we have to give ears to the apostle Paul.

That does not abolish Jesus words:

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

 

[SimpleGardner]

What? Wow.

OK here we go:

Luke 24:44-45, " 44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,"

Matt 5: 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

the law and the prophets are mentioned.

The most prophesied thing in the old testament is Jesus 2nd coming.

Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev_22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please don't think that just because in the form of dust that we are, and because we cannot reach 100% all the time that Yahshua or Paul would simply say don't bother. Look below;

(Eph 4:12 KJV) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
(Eph 4:13 KJV) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

There is so much more than acquiescing to our condition, through faith "in Christ" and through the work of the anointing of the Holy Spirit, walk in the newness of life and the fullness of Christ! But it is not a passive thing EG, You must submit your flesh to the cross and walk in the newness of life, not spend every day saying it's not part of the walk....

SG

Nothing in here says anything about working at the law for the person who is already saved, It just says it has a purpose in a persons life.

It is YOUR supposition that working at the law is required.

The law is a schoolmaster (you even admited that did you not) to lead us to CHRIST (I have been lead to christ) but AFTER such, we no longer need a schoolmaster

Using eph 4, The scripture concerning the law did its job, it lead me to christ, and showed me who God is

It has accoplished its purpose. I need to look at other scripture I NEED to FUCUS on, which is APPLICABLE to my life after my new birth.

 

[Marcelo]

Marcelo said: Here is what the Lord Jesus said:

So obey everything they teach you, but don't do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else.

The Lord told the disciples to obey EVERYTHING THE SCRIBES AND THE PHARISEES TEACH, and the only restriction was: DON'T DO WHAT THEY DO.

So, in your church you listen to the Christian sermon and then at a given moment your pastor says: "Ok, folks, now you go to the synagogue and rabbi John Doe will teach you how to keep the law of Moses. Is this how it works?

You seem to have a problem with Jesus words. So I think you are isolating. Lets take a look.

Matthew 23:2-4, " 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger."

2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat

(this implies they are teaching God's law given through Moses, can't ignore context!)

3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.

(This implies that we should listen to them concerning God's law but that they don't do God's law)

4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger."

(this one imo can be viewed in different ways, I see it as they add law they thselves are exempt from, because we see their traditions in the word that they command as "law" example is the hand washing ritual they scold Jesus for His followers NOT doing, so the is Biblical evidence that this is correct)

You didn't answer my question: Do you go to a synagogue to learn how to keep the law of Moses. And remember: the rabbi has to be a Pharisee, not Sadducee, Essene or whatever else.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Nothing in here says anything about working at the law for the person who is already saved, It just says it has a purpose in a persons life.

It is YOUR supposition that working at the law is required.

The law is a schoolmaster (you even admited that did you not) to lead us to CHRIST (I have been lead to christ) but AFTER such, we no longer need a schoolmaster

Using eph 4, The scripture concerning the law did its job, it lead me to christ, and showed me who God is

It has accoplished its purpose. I need to look at other scripture I NEED to FUCUS on, which is APPLICABLE to my life after my new birth.

Agreed the law did bring us to repentance and the Father brought us to Christ, but if that were the end of it then why is it all through the scripture that the magnificence of God's plan was to bring men to the place where His Holy Spirit would "Write His Laws Upon Our Hearts!? Certainly this is the long awaited victory over sin! This is the long awaited release from the sting of death! This is what the anointing of the Holy Spirit does for us and it is through a change of relationship with the law where it is no longer "work" but "a Joy!" BUT there it is...The Law is still at the center of it all!

SG

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev_22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Daniel 8:17-19, " 17 So he came near where I stood. And when he came, I was frightened and fell on my face. But he said to me, “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end.” 18 And when he had spoken to me, I fell into a deep sleep with my face to the ground. But he touched me and made me stand up. 19 He said, “Behold, I will make known to you what shall be at the latter end of the indignation, for it refers to the appointed time of the end.

Revelation 6:17, “because the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Psalms 50:3-6, " 3 Our God comes; he does not keep silence; before him is a devouring fire, around him a mighty tempest. 4 He calls to the heavens above and to the earth, that he may judge his people: 5 “Gather to me my faithful ones, who made a covenant with me by sacrifice!” 6 The heavens declare his righteousness, for God himself is judge! — Selah

Revelation 1:7-8, " 7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen. 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

 

[Yahshua]

It depends by what you mean by "following the savior"

do we follow his example (the way he did everything or the purpose or reason he did it)

or do we follow his actions and everything he did (which no one can do. because no one is perfect)

if we MUST follow his actions. we have no hope.

Ok. I guess it depends on how Grandpa means "following the savior" since he first mentioned the phrase. But the way I took his meaning is "follow his actions and example"; all of the above.

In terms of the belief that no one can follow Christ's actions, I differ. I believe every single person who receives the Holy Spirit can do everything Christ did, and even greater things than He's done (John 14:12).

 

[SimpleGardner]

Daniel 8:17-19, " 17 So he came near where I stood. And when he came, I was frightened and fell on my face. But he said to me, “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end.” 18 And when he had spoken to me, I fell into a deep sleep with my face to the ground. But he touched me and made me stand up. 19 He said, “Behold, I will make known to you what shall be at the latter end of the indignation, for it refers to the appointed time of the end.

Revelation 6:17, “because the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Psalms 50:3-6, " 3 Our God comes; he does not keep silence; before him is a devouring fire, around him a mighty tempest. 4 He calls to the heavens above and to the earth, that he may judge his people: 5 “Gather to me my faithful ones, who made a covenant with me by sacrifice!” 6 The heavens declare his righteousness, for God himself is judge! — Selah

Revelation 1:7-8, " 7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen. 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Beautiful Verses!

SG

 

[SimpleGardner]

Back to the Harvest!

Be well, serve through sacrifice!

SG

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

You didn't answer my question: Do you go to a synagogue to learn how to keep the law of Moses. And remember: the rabbi has to be a Pharisee, not Sadducee, Essene or whatever else.

No I do not. The principle of God's law are not taught in these places. Back in Jesus day they did still teach God's law, but they also taught their own tradition.

Just like every church I have even been to, they tech Jesus but each one also has their own man made customs too.

With that said, anyone who teaches God's law, Jesus words, prophecies yes I will hear them out for sure. It is up to me to submit to the holy Spirit and discern what is true and what is not.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Beautiful Verses!

SG

have a blessed day!

Psalms 72:18-19, " 18 Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel, who alone does wondrous things. 19 Blessed be his glorious name forever; may the whole earth be filled with his glory! Amen and Amen!

 

[NayborBear]

It makes no sense to you?

Moses said anyone that does not obey every word is cursed, does that help?

Paul confirmed it in Gal 3 ( for whoever is under the law is under a curse, for cursed os everyone who does not continue in ALL things,)

James even makes it clear, if we keep wvery word of the law yet stumble in one point, we are guilty of the whol law.. what is the penalty? Cursed or death..

I am not sure you understand the purpose of the law my friend.

Morality is not subjective dude, your calling gods words subjective

Jesus said on those two commands hang the whole law, those are his words not mine

What I am seeing here, and not just you EG. But, many, many others as well? You have heeded what Job's wife told Job to do: "Curse God....and die!"
At some point, and at some level/s? This is PRECISELY what has happened!
Isaiah 28
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: IOW? "Curse God and die."

What not only you, EG, but many many others are doing? Are mocking and scoffing, and "judging", and trying to "shred" those, who unlike you and others, are not WILLING, yea, even UNABLE to "CURSE God, at ANY/EVERY level. Which, also, btw, transcends from the spiritual, into the "flesh."
So, in essence, and by "God in the box" practice? Are refuting, rejecting, denying, mocking, and scoffing AT Paul's "prophecy" concerning "the fullness of the Gentiles!" As WELL as "the elect!"
Either knowingly, making oneself "willingly ignorant."
Or, because traditions of man has "rendered" the word of God to such "non-effect."
Well? Allow me to give an explanation, if you would.
When does one "recognize", or "acknowledge", that a "thief" has done that which a thief does?
Or? When does one call 911, or the police? Exclaiming "I've been robbed/ransacked!"
10 times out of 10? It's AFTERWARDS!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes different translations handle it dofferently.

1. What does the greek say, translation does not matter.

John 3: 36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

“does not obey” is word #G544 - apeitheó: to disobey, Original Word: ἀπειθέω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: apeitheó, Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o), Short Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity.

2. The topic is not salvation directly, it is if Jesus words are valid/important post resurrection. I am being told Jesus words are useless post resurrection. I think His words are of upmost importance.

I am confused

It says whoever does not obey shall not see life.

It this not salvation? that we are made alive?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, To choose to "keep The Law" without the Holy Spirit is not a choice it is a drudgery. I am saying and have always said that our choice is to be justified, baptized and then receive the anointing of the Holy Spirit which puts Gods Laws and Yahshua's commands in our hearts to do them (sanctification). This is our walk and it does include The Law and Commandments of Yahshua but from a totally new perspective and basis! No longer legalists, just followers of Yahshua and the Holy Spirit He sent to guide us!

Are you missing this GP, Have you taken a doctrinal hard-line to the point that you are resisting the work of the Holy Spirit to work Gods Laws into your heart? Sometimes from your criticism of my words I think it is so.

SG

you can not keep the law

Why can't you admit that?

 

[Marcelo]

........Their reason for choosing not to give any more rules wasn't any reason repeated in Galatians. Their reason was specifically "because the Law of Moses would be taught to them every Sabbath."

Read again:

28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

If the apostles meant what you think they meant they would have written: For now we give you guys only a few teachings; you'll be taught more in the synagogues.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes different translations handle it dofferently.

1. What does the greek say, translation does not matter.

John 3: 36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

“does not obey” is word #G544 - apeitheó: to disobey, Original Word: ἀπειθέω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: apeitheó, Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o), Short Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity.

2. The topic is not salvation directly, it is if Jesus words are valid/important post resurrection. I am being told Jesus words are useless post resurrection. I think His words are of upmost importance.

Of course, the words of Jesus are of upmost importance. We obey the Son by choosing to believe in the Son. Also see (John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26). “Obey Him” in John 3:36 is not talking about salvation by works.

 

[Marcelo]

That does not abolish Jesus words:

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Paul said the law of Moses is no longer in force.