Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[Marcelo]

If you read the Big Ten, they were given to Israel. Are you an Israelite? I am not. The better question is where did Jesus say we must keep the Big Ten?

In Matthew 19:17

If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.

Actually He taught obedience to the whole Law, but after the resurrection He called Paul to preach salvation by grace through faith and, as a result, the Law became obsolete.

Most theologians believe Jesus' words (His words on Earth) override the words of Paul, but I believe that Paul's words supersede those of Jesus. Did Paul have more authority than Jesus? Of course not! Paul was a slave to Christ, but his words were a new message from his master.

 

[presidente]

Not only Christ but also Paul taught to obey the spirit of the law.

Christ never taught to follow these fleshly laws but Christ did speak of following law not only with our actions but even in our thoughts. However, Christ taught to follow Him and to do that we must include the days of our year that God set aside for us to devote to Him such as Sabbath and Passover.

The Bible does not talk about the 'spirit of the law.' That is a phrase used in some modern legal terminology.

The Biblical passage is this:
II Corinthians 3

4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[presidente]

I'm not a law-keeper, but I still haven't found a single piece of evidence -- in the Gospels -- that Jesus ever told us to stop keeping the Law. Should we rely solely on what Paul said?

Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. All authority was given to Him in heaven and on earth, and he sent the apostles to teach the nations.

Israel had a covenant with God that required keeping the law. The Gentiles did not. The Gentile's ancestor Noah had a covenant with God. God had commanded Noah not to eat the lifeblood and about shedding blood.

The early church had to wrestle with the issue of whether Gentiles could be righteous before God without being circumcised and taking on the responsibility to obey the law of Moses. Paul strongly opposed this idea. There were some individuals in Jerusalem teaching it. Eventually, the apostles and elders met. They did not put an obligation on the Gentiles to keep the law of Moses, but rather certain things that can be inferred were required of Gentiles from the Old Testament and the gospel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In Matthew 19:17

If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.

Actually He taught obedience to the whole Law, but after the resurrection He called Paul to preach salvation by grace through faith and, as a result, the Law became obsolete.

Most theologians believe Jesus' words (His words on Earth) override the words of Paul, but I believe that Paul's words supersede those of Jesus. Did Paul have more authority than Jesus? Of course not! Paul was a slave to Christ, but his words were a new message from his master.

But did God not give the command and instructions, that in order to keep the law. One must confirm and obey every word forever? Ie, if we break one command, we become breakers of Gods law?

Did Not James understand this fact, and also preach, that if we keep the whole law (every command) and stumble in one point we are guilty?

 

[DeighAnn]

In Matthew 19:17

If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.

Actually He taught obedience to the whole Law, but after the resurrection He called Paul to preach salvation by grace through faith and, as a result, the Law became obsolete.

Most theologians believe Jesus' words (His words on Earth) override the words of Paul, but I believe that Paul's words supersede those of Jesus. Did Paul have more authority than Jesus? Of course not! Paul was a slave to Christ, but his words were a new message from his master.

Jesus is your Saviour and Judge. I am sure He knew exactly what he was and was not saying. Pauls words couldn't be a new message or Jesus could not have said
Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.


Yes, SALVATION was not GIVEN BASED ON HOW WELL YOU FOLLOWED THE LAW. It was given in love through faith and grace.

Salvation INTO WHAT?

The kingdom of God

Does Gods kingdom have laws? Yes

Do you want to be a good standing member of that kingdom that you TOLD God you wanted to be a part of?

Then you better follow Gods Word.

Does that mean any of the ceremonies or rituals that lead to forgiveness of sin that had to be performed when those laws were broken back in the day? GOD FORBID, because THE PERFECT BLOOD of Christ, through OUR repentance, means we don't have to "physically" go get an animal and have its blood shed, or a priest go talk to God for us, ECT.

But has God changed? Does He want HIS people (be they descendants, gentile, or whomever) to be any less righteous and holy that he ever has? NO. He is the exact same. He wants our love. If you think that because Jesus paid the price for past sins, that that covered any sin going forth from there, and not repented of, will fair well, I suggest a deeper study, because Jesus being perfect gets THE GIFT offered, past penalty paid, leaving us to best walk holy and righteous with the help of the Spirit, on our own, knowing (called us all sinners) we will stumble and fall every now and again, but keeping that separation from God to a minimum by the blood of the Lamb.

I realize this flies directly in the face of other "views" which I understand will tell you that "God knows all you have ever done (negating freewill) so you repent once, (how can you not want to continually change the inner man as you mature in your walk with all the knowledge and wisdom you gain through the Word??) are made perfect and never will lose salvation (which would lead to those who would mock God, which is negated by being called "never really saved" as opposed to "lost it through not abiding in Christ"), but thats the way Gods Word goes

 

[DeighAnn]

But did God not give the command and instructions, that in order to keep the law. One must confirm and obey every word forever? Ie, if we break one command, we become breakers of Gods law?

Did Not James understand this fact, and also preach, that if we keep the whole law (every command) and stumble in one point we are guilty?

Still don't believe in the power of the blood of the Lamb for the forgiveness of sin? Yes, if I live a perfect, flawless life, not breaking a single law and then at the end, plan and murder someone, I have broken the law. Since jaywalking is breaking the law, and murder is breaking the law, then in fact "THE LAW HAS BEEN BROKEN and we are guilty of breaking the law, THE WHOLE LAW.

BUT with REPENTANCE of that ONE SIN, you receive forgiveness through the blood shed for the forgiveness of sin, hence YOU ARE NO LONGER GUILTY OF BREAKING THE WHOLE LAW, OR ANY ONE LAW, AND ARE NO LONGER GUILTY.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Still don't believe in the power of the blood of the Lamb for the forgiveness of sin? Yes, if I live a perfect, flawless life, not breaking a single law and then at the end, plan and murder someone, I have broken the law. Since jaywalking is breaking the law, and murder is breaking the law, then in fact "THE LAW HAS BEEN BROKEN and we are guilty of breaking the law, THE WHOLE LAW.

BUT with REPENTANCE of that ONE SIN, you receive forgiveness through the blood shed for the forgiveness of sin, hence YOU ARE NO LONGER GUILTY OF BREAKING THE WHOLE LAW, OR ANY ONE LAW, AND ARE NO LONGER GUILTY.

You still do. Not get it. You can live your whole life never Commiting murder. Adultry, stealing anything, honoring your parents covering someone’s things yet the moment you say a little white lie all that hard work is meaningless. Your doomed forever you have broken the law. You have failed to keep the law. Even if you never sin again. Your guilty and the penalty is death And to say you keep the law would make you a liar
that’s the requirement of the law

You do not have to agree for it to be true not just is God said so, Moses wrote it down Paul rewrote it and james
Confirmed it

So stop trying to Obey the law you which condemns you and telling everyone else to obey the law which condemns them. Turn to Christ. Thank him for saving you (if he did) and learn to love as he loved
until then you will never understand god or his way

 

[DeighAnn]

You still do. Not get it. You can live your whole life never Commiting murder. Adultry, stealing anything, honoring your parents covering someone’s things yet the moment you say a little white lie all that hard work is meaningless. Your doomed forever you have broken the law. You have failed to keep the law. Even if you never sin again. Your guilty and the penalty is death And to say you keep the law would make you a liar
that’s the requirement of the law

SIN, THE TRANSGRESSION OF GODS LAW, FORGIVEN THROUGH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST. CHRIST AFFORDS FORGIVENESS FOR SIN WHICH IS TRANSGRESSION OF THAT LAW. SIN FORGIVEN, IS SIN BLOTTED OUT. BLOTTED OUT IS LIKE IT NEVER HAPPEN. THEREFORE CHRIST, AND THE LIGHT YOKE. NO MORE BURDEN OF BEING PERFECT UNDER THE LAW FOR SALVATION. NO MORE BEING PERFECT IN THE LAW OR DEATH. THAT WAS THE OLD. NOT THE NEW.

IT IS TRUE THAT UNDER THE OLD COVENANT, THE OLD LAW, THAT THE PENALTY WAS DEATH.

LOOK, YOU CAN BREAK "ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE COMMANDMENT" AND STILL BE IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
IT SAYS SO STRAIGHT OUT OF THE MOUTH OF JESUS. BUT IF YOU TEACH MEN TO SO YOU WILL BE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HEAP. WHERE DO YOU THINK SOMEONE IS GOING TO FALL WHO TEACHES THERE NO LONGER IS ANY LAW TO FOLLOW OR DO??

SO THAT ARGUMENT OF DEATH FOR NOT FOLLOWING THE LAW, JUST DOESN'T ABIDE IN THE WORD OF GOD.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.





BUT IS THAT TRUE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT? NO. BECAUSE EVEN IF YOU BREAK THE WHOLE LAW, THAT IS NO LONGER THE PENALTY. WE WERE FREED FROM THAT PENALTY. SO YOU CAN SAY IT OVER AND OVER AND IT WILL NEVER CHANGE THAT "REPENTANCE" BRINGS WITH IT THE FORGIVENESS OF SIN.


You still do not get it. The Blood of the Lamb "TAKES AWAY THE SIN", once that sin is blotted out, YOU HAVE NO LONGER BROKEN THE LAW. HENCE, REPENTANCE.

And before you tell me we are made righteous in Christ and He did it perfect, and we can do nothing to add to our salvation, I am showing you in THE WORD OF GOD that we are to PRACTICE, or DO or ACT for OURSELVES, not just because we were gifted salvation. WE are responsible, WE will be judged on what we did and what we did not, NOT the Holy Spirit that is dwelling with us.

Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

GREEK The [one] being unrighteous let him be unrighteous still and he who is filthy let him be filthy still and he who [is] righteous righteousness let him practice still and he who [is] holy let him be holy still


91 ADIKEO TO DO WRONG, ACT WICKEDLY

1342 DIKAIOS CORRECT, RIGHTEOUS, BY IMPLICATION INNOCENT JUST, ESPECIALLY IN THE EYES OF GOD

1343 DIKAIOSUNE, RIGHTEOUSNESS, JUSTICE
JUSTNESS, RIGHTEOUSNESS OF WHICH GOD IS THE SOURCE OR AUTHOR, BUT PRACTICALLY A DIVINE RIGHTEOUSNESS

4160 POIEO
TO MAKE, DO
I MAKE, I DO, ACT, CAUSE

40 HAGIOS
SACRED, HOLY, SET APART BY (OR FOR) GOD,

37 HAGIAZO
TO MAKE HOLY, CONSECRATE, SANCTIFY
I MAKE HOLY, TREAT AS HOLY, SET APART AS HOLY, HALLOW, PURIFY

THE LAW NO LONGER CONDEMS.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

SIN, THE TRANSGRESSION OF GODS LAW, FORGIVEN THROUGH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST. CHRIST AFFORDS FORGIVENESS FOR SIN WHICH IS TRANSGRESSION OF THAT LAW. SIN FORGIVEN, IS SIN BLOTTED OUT. BLOTTED OUT IS LIKE IT NEVER HAPPEN. THEREFORE CHRIST, AND THE LIGHT YOKE. NO MORE BURDEN OF BEING PERFECT UNDER THE LAW FOR SALVATION. NO MORE BEING PERFECT IN THE LAW OR DEATH. THAT WAS THE OLD. NOT THE NEW.

IT IS TRUE THAT UNDER THE OLD COVENANT, THE OLD LAW, THAT THE PENALTY WAS DEATH.

LOOK, YOU CAN BREAK "ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE COMMANDMENT" AND STILL BE IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
IT SAYS SO STRAIGHT OUT OF THE MOUTH OF JESUS. BUT IF YOU TEACH MEN TO SO YOU WILL BE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HEAP. WHERE DO YOU THINK SOMEONE IS GOING TO FALL WHO TEACHES THERE NO LONGER IS ANY LAW TO FOLLOW OR DO??

SO THAT ARGUMENT OF DEATH FOR NOT FOLLOWING THE LAW, JUST DOESN'T ABIDE IN THE WORD OF GOD.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.





BUT IS THAT TRUE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT? NO. BECAUSE EVEN IF YOU BREAK THE WHOLE LAW, THAT IS NO LONGER THE PENALTY. WE WERE FREED FROM THAT PENALTY. SO YOU CAN SAY IT OVER AND OVER AND IT WILL NEVER CHANGE THAT "REPENTANCE" BRINGS WITH IT THE FORGIVENESS OF SIN.


You still do not get it. The Blood of the Lamb "TAKES AWAY THE SIN", once that sin is blotted out, YOU HAVE NO LONGER BROKEN THE LAW. HENCE, REPENTANCE.

And before you tell me we are made righteous in Christ and He did it perfect, and we can do nothing to add to our salvation, I am showing you in THE WORD OF GOD that we are to PRACTICE, or DO or ACT for OURSELVES, not just because we were gifted salvation. WE are responsible, WE will be judged on what we did and what we did not, NOT the Holy Spirit that is dwelling with us.

Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

GREEK The [one] being unrighteous let him be unrighteous still and he who is filthy let him be filthy still and he who [is] righteous righteousness let him practice still and he who [is] holy let him be holy still


91 ADIKEO TO DO WRONG, ACT WICKEDLY

1342 DIKAIOS CORRECT, RIGHTEOUS, BY IMPLICATION INNOCENT JUST, ESPECIALLY IN THE EYES OF GOD

1343 DIKAIOSUNE, RIGHTEOUSNESS, JUSTICE
JUSTNESS, RIGHTEOUSNESS OF WHICH GOD IS THE SOURCE OR AUTHOR, BUT PRACTICALLY A DIVINE RIGHTEOUSNESS

4160 POIEO
TO MAKE, DO
I MAKE, I DO, ACT, CAUSE

40 HAGIOS
SACRED, HOLY, SET APART BY (OR FOR) GOD,

37 HAGIAZO
TO MAKE HOLY, CONSECRATE, SANCTIFY
I MAKE HOLY, TREAT AS HOLY, SET APART AS HOLY, HALLOW, PURIFY

THE LAW NO LONGER CONDEMS.

Yes the law no longer condemns (I feel like a broken record, I have said this how many times)

it does not mean you keep it. You CANT KEEP IT. One sin and you FAIL (when will you acknowledge this fact?)

for all have sinned (miss the mark) and fall short (Rom 3)

why are you attempting to keep a law you can’t keep?

why do you refuse to instead focus on keeping the law of Christ (love) where you are empowered by his love to become and obedient child (although still not perfect?)

 

[Marcelo]

God had commanded Noah not to eat the lifeblood and about shedding blood.

I had never paid attention to this before.

 

[bibleprophecy]

Ezekiel 20:12 I also gave my sabbaths to them as a sign between me and them, so that they would know that I, Yehovah, am the one sanctifying them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ezekiel 20:12 I also gave my sabbaths to them as a sign between me and them, so that they would know that I, Yehovah, am the one sanctifying them.

gave who?

yes, israel
why?
to lead them to Christ when Christ came

 

[Dan_473]

Have you any thoughts on that?

My thought is that we can't really find clear reasons why God told the Israelites that some animals were clean and the rest were not.

Leviticus 11: 15. any kind of raven,

I don't know what kinds of birds the Israelites back then were familiar with. It's possible that we can only guess today. If Ravens are unclean, are crows unclean as well? They are very closely related. Close enough to be any kind of Raven?


Deuteronomy has a similar list, and then it's followed by this interesting verse.
Deuteronomy 14: 21. You shall not eat of anything that dies of itself: you may give it to the foreigner living among you who is within your gates, that he may eat it; or you may sell it to a foreigner.

There's an interesting situation. A food can be unclean for Israelites, but clean for gentiles living among them. Since we are the Israel of God, does that mean we qualify as Israelites? Or as gentiles grafted into Israel and living among them?

 

[DeighAnn]

it does not mean you keep it. You CANT KEEP IT. One sin and you FAIL (when will you acknowledge this fact?)

for all have sinned (miss the mark) and fall short (Rom 3)

why are you attempting to keep a law you can’t keep?

why do you refuse to instead focus on keeping the law of Christ (love) where you are empowered by his love to become and obedient child (although still not perfect?)

BECAUSE YOU SHOULD BELIEVE THIS AS MUCH AS I DO
Hebrews 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


BECAUSE BEING THE SAME AS YESTERDAY THIS IS HIS REACTION TO NOT
Leviticus 10:10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean
Leviticus 10:11 And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.

Leviticus 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.
Leviticus 10:2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.
Leviticus 10:3 Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the LORD spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace.

Is there anything left to the imagination there??? Do you have any idea of how many God has just "ended" because they "thought they would do it their way". with love of course.

YOU SAY I focus on the law. I say I follow it, and this is a forum on it, hence "MY FOCUS"

YOU SAY I am not empowered by His love. I say I am, you just don't like that I follow "all of them" when you YOURSELF DECIDED THAT JUST THE TWO WERE ENOUGH FOR YOU AND THE THOUGHT OF LOVING THE WAYS OF GOD, AND SO FOLLOWING THOSE LAWS TOWARDS GOD AND BRETHREN WITH THAT LOVE IS UNTHINKABLE. YOU WOULD RATHER DO IT YOUR WAY. YOU TEACH THE LAMBS, WHO KNOW NO BETTER THEY CAN JUST LOVE AND BE OK AND THAT IS NOT WHAT GOD SAYS. GODS WAY ARE HOLY. MANS WAY ARE NOT. HOW DO WE KNOW THE WAYS OF GOD? BECAUSE WHEN GOD SAYS "NO STRANGE FIRE" GOD MEANS NO STRANGE FIRE. AND THOUGH THEY MAY HAVE LOVED GOD, THEY DISREGARED WHAT HE SAID AND THOUGHT, "WE WILL JUST DO IT OUR WAY". WHICH IS WHAT YOU PREACH, AND TEACH, AND DO.

AS a follower of Gods Law, I absolutely WOULDN'T LEAVE OUT NUMBERS ONE AND TWO, would I?? Doesn't that just defy all logic to you???? but I would imagine you have to focus on that, because well, what else have you but to teach "don't follow the law cause you can't do it perfect"

INSTEAD OF ACCEPTING THE FORGIVENESS OF SIN MADE AVAILABLE TO US THROUGH THE INFINITE VALUE OF THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB,

YOU JUST GET RID OF THE LAW, AND CONSIDER YOURSELF WITHOUT SIN.

For some reason you think that because Jesus brought us a New Covenant WITH a change in the forgiveness of sins, that HE CHANGED WHO HE WAS.

OBEDIANCE to GOD is not an option. Wasn't then, isn't now, isn't going to be. You seem to trying to make God acceptable to you, when in fact you should be making yourself acceptable to HIM.




why do you refuse to instead focus on keeping the law of Christ (love) where you are empowered by his love to become and obedient child (although still not perfect?)[/QUOTE]

Tell me, if you never studied the laws of God, would you know the difference between the Holy and the profane? You think that flesh would lead you in the ways of God? You think the Holy Spirit imparts "all the rights and wrongs" in you?

NO, you know the ways of God because you STUDIED the Word yet now you teach others not to.


YES, you will say "that is not what you are doing" like you have said for the last how ever many years, yet when person upon person upon person upon person keeps telling you that, then whether it is your intent or not, it is what you are ultimately doing and that is what will be judged.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

TO BREAK A COMMANDMENT, YOU HAVE TO KNOW AND FOLLOW.

WHAT KIND OF TEACHING DO YOU THINK IT IS THAT REQUIRED THAT VERSE TO BE WRITTEN???

 

[DeighAnn]

My thought is that we can't really find clear reasons why God told the Israelites that some animals were clean and the rest were not.

Leviticus 11: 15. any kind of raven,

I don't know what kinds of birds the Israelites back then were familiar with. It's possible that we can only guess today. If Ravens are unclean, are crows unclean as well? They are very closely related. Close enough to be any kind of Raven?


Deuteronomy has a similar list, and then it's followed by this interesting verse.
Deuteronomy 14: 21. You shall not eat of anything that dies of itself: you may give it to the foreigner living among you who is within your gates, that he may eat it; or you may sell it to a foreigner.

There's an interesting situation. A food can be unclean for Israelites, but clean for gentiles living among them. Since we are the Israel of God, does that mean we qualify as Israelites? Or as gentiles grafted into Israel and living among them?

Once grafted in, you are of the Spiritual House of Israel, no longer what ever you were before. You are a Christian. And stay that way for as long as you choose.

I think it all comes down to the way the food is processed in the body of the animal and then how these bodies process them. God just keeping us from sickness in the flesh. It has been so long since I have eaten pork or shrimp or lobster or crab I think it would just make me really sick now. Chicken though, that's a whole other story. Definitely a huge difference in taste between the "organic or non caged" ones for sure.

It wouldn't matter much to God what the foreigner eats, God doesn't have a job for them to do on down the line like He possibly does us. I think what maybe important to Him is finding someone who took to heart the wisdom and knowledge He put forth, commandment or not, just cause they love Him and he took the time to have it written, so He can use them when He needs them without having to do anything but say "Go". Just my thoughts.

 

[Dan_473]

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday,

Sometimes people use this verse to show that Christians today should keep the law.

I think the reasoning is that since God told the Israelites things in the wilderness, and since Jesus is God, that means that Jesus told the Israelites those things. And since Jesus doesn't change, the commandments that God told the Israelites in the wilderness he is telling us today.

Here is a passage in which Jesus gives a commandment
Matthew 18: 15. Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

I don't think that that commandment is found in the law that God told the Israelites in the wilderness. So, a reasonable conclusion is that the unchanging nature of Jesus does not equal:
Jesus always commands the same things.

Here's another passage in which Jesus changes a commandment that he had given earlier and his ministry.
Luke 22: 35. He said to them, "When I sent you out without purse, and wallet, and shoes, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing." 36. Then he said to them,
"But now,
whoever has a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet. Whoever has none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.

We can see that changing situations leads to changing commandments.

So Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever. Amen to that! But what Jesus tells us to do changes.

 

[Dan_473]

Once grafted in, you are of the Spiritual House of Israel, no longer what ever you were before. You are a Christian. And stay that way for as long as you choose.

I think it all comes down to the way the food is processed in the body of the animal and then how these bodies process them. God just keeping us from sickness in the flesh. It has been so long since I have eaten pork or shrimp or lobster or crab I think it would just make me really sick now. Chicken though, that's a whole other story. Definitely a huge difference in taste between the "organic or non caged" ones for sure.

It wouldn't matter much to God what the foreigner eats, God doesn't have a job for them to do on down the line like He possibly does us. I think what maybe important to Him is finding someone who took to heart the wisdom and knowledge He put forth, commandment or not, just cause they love Him and he took the time to have it written, so He can use them when He needs them without having to do anything but say "Go". Just my thoughts.

Well, in my opinion, the idea that God gave the Israelites dietary laws in order to make them healthy just doesn't hold water.

I agree that generally speaking, a kosher diet is healthier than a non kosher one.

But there are some glaring exceptions. Milk is a clean food, thus cream is a clean food. But too much cream, and definitely too much ice cream, is clearly unhealthy.

Just my thoughts!

 

[DeighAnn]

Well, in my opinion, the idea that God gave the Israelites dietary laws in order to make them healthy just doesn't hold water.

I agree that generally speaking, a kosher diet is healthier than a non kosher one.

But there are some glaring exceptions. Milk is a clean food, thus cream is a clean food. But too much cream, and definitely too much ice cream, is clearly unhealthy.

Just my thoughts!

Hey, easy with the ice cream talk, I eat it every night. I myself don't go to far past the "basics" as I am not very adventurous when it comes to food. But I am willing to bet a dollar that science would divide the "food groups" similar to the way God did.

What do you think the food laws were for then?

 

[DeighAnn]

Sometimes people use this verse to show that Christians today should keep the law.

I think the reasoning is that since God told the Israelites things in the wilderness, and since Jesus is God, that means that Jesus told the Israelites those things. And since Jesus doesn't change, the commandments that God told the Israelites in the wilderness he is telling us today.

Here is a passage in which Jesus gives a commandment
Matthew 18: 15. Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

I don't think that that commandment is found in the law that God told the Israelites in the wilderness. So, a reasonable conclusion is that the unchanging nature of Jesus does not equal:
Jesus always commands the same things.

Here's another passage in which Jesus changes a commandment that he had given earlier and his ministry.
Luke 22: 35. He said to them, "When I sent you out without purse, and wallet, and shoes, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing." 36. Then he said to them,
"But now,
whoever has a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet. Whoever has none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.

We can see that changing situations leads to changing commandments.

So Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever. Amen to that! But what Jesus tells us to do changes.

Maybe, and just maybe, cause I have never studied it, it changed because while Jesus was physically on earth it was different than it was going to be once He had risen. Just a thought.

 

[Dan_473]

Hey, easy with the ice cream talk, I eat it every night. I myself don't go to far past the "basics" as I am not very adventurous when it comes to food. But I am willing to bet a dollar that science would divide the "food groups" similar to the way God did.

What do you think the food laws were for then?

I don't know if God tells us in the scriptures what the food laws were for.

One possibility was to make Israel a holy people
Exodus 22: 31. "You shall be holy men to me, therefore you shall not eat any flesh that is torn by animals in the field. You shall cast it to the dogs.

Another possibility is that it was God's way of testing isreal
Exodus 15: 25. And in answer to his prayer, the Lord made him see a tree, and when he put it into the water, the water was made sweet. There he gave them a law and an order, testing them.