Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[SimpleGardner]

I will give an example. You have two people. Both are saved. Both have Gods spirit.

God has placed in front of them a young lady who needs served.

Both serve the lady, And the lady is blessed

Person number 1 does it unselfishly out of love, with no thought of wanting anything in return, his blessing is his giving

Person number 2 did not really want to do it. But felt it was his obligation. And made sure everyone around him knew this work he had done to puff himself up. And sought after his own glory.

Person number 1 gave honor and glory to God.

Person number 2 boasted and sought his own glory, which is sin of self righteousness.

Both did the exact same act. But one did it in sin, while the other did it in love, as led by the spirit.

Yet both had the HS..

Even a believer can do a morally good act being obedient to God yet do it in sin was my point. One could say He followed the law. And did what the law required in that act of giving, Yet did it in sin.

Re Person #2; would say that they are not bearing the fruits of the Spirit, so your "What If" scenario may not be a tenable scenario.

Do you think a man who has the anointing cannot quench the Holy Spirit and hence fall?

If you are doing a "What If"; "What if" he was never truly filled with the Holy Spirit, but was posing as someone that did?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re Person #2; would say that they are not bearing the fruits of the Spirit, so your "What If" scenario may not be a tenable scenario.

Thank you, they are not bearing fruit, they are bearing self righteousness, Which is sin. And we did not need the law to tell us that was sin, We just needed to see where his motivation or power came from.

Do you think a man who has the anointing cannot quench the Holy Spirit and hence fall?

You quench the HS, you lose your effectiveness, and stop bearing fruit, but the HS is still in you. You are sealed until the day of redemption. Is this not correct?

If you are doing a "What If"; "What if" he was never truly filled with the Holy Spirit, but was posing as someone that did?

These what if situations happen every day. Even in my own life, I have done those things many times.. I am sure if you really thought, you can see it in yours too. Thats the self righteous spirit or flesh which is inside us..

 

[SimpleGardner]

The spirit does nto have to point to the law. Do I am sorry I disagree. The spirit points to serving, and giving. He does not need to point to the moral code
People can follow the moral code. And still be in sin (see my last post)

As paul said, He lived his life with no sin apart from the law. When the law came, Sin became evident and he died. This is what leads us to christ, because we can no longer excuse our sin.

But once we come to Christ. The moral code or law has completed its job as a convicting agent whose purpose was to act as a schoolmaster and take us by the hand to Christ. It is no longer useful, At best it can make us saved pharisees who think we are morally good because we obey the letter. Puffing ourselves up and trying to take credit.

The HS puts us in places where we need to serve. And he just says go serve. The law can not help us do this service. What helps is we take Gods unfailing unending love given to us, and share that overflowing love with those people.

I see the "round em up" you are doing, and I don't agree to being in your dogma corral. So when Jesus said regarding the Holy Spirits charter;

Joh 14:26 KJV But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So the "all things" would not be the Law, and "whatsoever I have said unto you" would exclude His comment on The Law being active even up to the moment "heaven and earth pass away". But no matter how many end runs you make at this you cannot eliminate this comment, nor the one in Revelations;

Rev 14:12 KJV Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Which noone has even commented on yet! I think your arguement on Rev 14:12 is that either it or the entire book is not valid. Am I right?

 

[SimpleGardner]

Thank you, they are not bearing fruit, they are bearing self righteousness, Which is sin. And we did not need the law to tell us that was sin, We just needed to see where his motivation or power came from.



You quench the HS, you lose your effectiveness, and stop bearing fruit, but the HS is still in you. You are sealed until the day of redemption. Is this not correct?


These what if situations happen every day. Even in my own life, I have done those things many times.. I am sure if you really thought, you can see it in yours too. Thats the self righteous spirit or flesh which is inside us..

Well EG, You opened another Calvanist box of questions. You never answered whether the Calvanists have a written moral code they ascribe to.

But from what you said you wish to say once saved always saved. Am I right?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see the "round em up" you are doing, and I don't agree to being in your dogma corral. So when Jesus said regarding the Holy Spirits charter;

Joh 14:26 KJV But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So the "all things" would not be the Law, and "whatsoever I have said unto you" would exclude His comment on The Law being active even up to the moment "heaven and earth pass away". But no matter how many end runs you make at this you cannot eliminate this comment, nor the one in Revelations;

Rev 14:12 KJV Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Which noone has even commented on yet! I think your arguement on Rev 14:12 is that either it or the entire book is not valid. Am I right?

What is the purpose of the law? It seems I have asked this numerous times. Maybe not if you?

Paul says it plainly in gal 3.

So all these passages you give to support your view I agree with this passages. But the law has to be placed where Paul and Moses put it. It was the schoolmaster used to lead us to Christ. But once you have graduated so to speak you no longer need a schoolmaster. Which was Paul’s point.

The moral law can not help you become Christlike it was not given for that purpose. You do not put milk in a car as fuel and expect the car to do Anything. Milk was not made for that purpose. it was made for the body..

In the same token you do not use the law for fuel For your Christian walk. It was not made for that purpose as scripture says it was made for the sinner who needs Christ to lead that sinner to Christ so they can start drinking milk and graduate to meat. If your in Christ your not classified as a sinner your classified as a son

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well EG, You opened another Calvanist box of questions. You never answered whether the Calvanists have a written moral code they ascribe to.

I am not a Calvinist. I suggest you stop trying to put things in a doctrinal view and just read the words

The Christian in sin did so if his own free will

But from what you said you wish to say once saved always saved. Am I right?

Eternal Life is eternal

Seal of spirit as a guarantee is until the day of our redemption

Kept in Christ is just that kept in christ

You want to call it is as. Feel free I call it eternal security. It is not a Calvin thing

If you think we have to maintain salvation your faith is in self not god and I fear for you[/quote]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Anyway thank you for well wishes we are getting ready to head out. I will be in from time to time

Will leave with this thought. It is not a Calvinist vs Arminian debate if we make it one we will never find out what each other really believes.

 

[SimpleGardner]

I am not a Calvinist. I suggest you stop trying to put things in a doctrinal view and just read the words

The Christian in sin did so if his own free will

Eternal Life is eternal

Seal of spirit as a guarantee is until the day of our redemption

Kept in Christ is just that kept in christ

You want to call it is as. Feel free I call it eternal security. It is not a Calvin thing

If you think we have to maintain salvation your faith is in self not god and I fear for you

[/QUOTE]


Perhaps we need to recognize that many who say LORD LORD are not in fact "saved" in the sense as Jesus puts it are "anomia" without the Law. So while the Law is not necessarily the motivator of a mans actions it is a gage that he himself can use. So if I by the Holy Spirit do that which is in the Law, the law which I have committed to know and understand bears witness to that.

You seem to argue that anyone who reads the law and meditates on it cannot be doing it for any reason but selfishness. But I happen to KNOW that to study the laws and meditate on them is an immense feast for the Holy Spirit as during that time I am immersed in the light of the truth and I feel the joy and satisfaction in Learning Gods Ways which is the Holy Spirits charter!

You should try it!

Also important is the point Jesus made that indicates that our fellowship with Him is gained only by frist familiarizing ourselves with His laws and then Keeping them. Two conscious efforts on or part.


Safe travels, into the sweat and dirt I go!

 

[Grandpa]

If I am not mistaken the "judaizers and legalists" were upset because of the new doctrine " Jesus being the only way to salvation", and no longer could you attain it through the law. Is there more to that? Because on this point right here, I will scream it out for the world to hear "I BELIEVE THAT THE ONLY WAY TO OBTAIN SALVATION IS THROUGH FAITH IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST" not a jot or tittle of the law can provide that for me. What else do the legalists and judaizers stand upon?

Judaizers and legalists are upset when they can't compel Christians to follow Moses.

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

I also believe that the law is firmly in place and will never be abolished. But I also believe the only reason for this is to bring people to Christ. Once they have come to Christ the law has done its job and these people have a New and Better Way. They are no longer under the law but under Christ.

I believe that people who think they have come to Christ but still attempt to "obey" the law are short-circuiting their faith. They are trying to get something for themselves that only God can give them.

I believe this contention among believers has been going on since the very beginning. But Christianity, The Lord Jesus, Peter and Paul show us the Truth.

 

[lightbearer]

I am not a Calvinist. I suggest you stop trying to put things in a doctrinal view and just read the words

The Christian in sin did so if his own free will

Eternal Life is eternal

Seal of spirit as a guarantee is until the day of our redemption

Kept in Christ is just that kept in christ

You want to call it is as. Feel free I call it eternal security. It is not a Calvin thing

If you think we have to maintain salvation your faith is in self not god and I fear for you

[/QUOTE]
OSAS is not true it is of the Devil. Thou shall not surely die.
And no we don't maintain our salvation God does through His Spirit. We go along through HIS power and might or He leaves us in our own undoing.

 

[Dan_473]

Hey EG, You are asking a "what if" to someone who did the opposite of your what if. There is so much there you could have praised, why not do that?

Safe travels

Hi SimpleGardner,

I see that you quoted my post in your post #1,274. Did you want to talk about something my post?

 

[gb9]

just because the Romans , after they put the letters of the Apostles and the Gospels together in what we call the New Testament , decided to add the jewish writings ( the Law and the Prophets ) to it, does not mean that gentiles were ever under it.

 

[gb9]

OSAS is not true it is of the Devil. Thou shall not surely die.
And no we don't maintain our salvation God does through His Spirit. We go along through HIS power and might or He leaves us in our own undoing.[/QUOTE]
Sabbath for salvation is equally of the devil, it is a straight up judeaizer lie.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Hi SimpleGardner,

I see that you quoted my post in your post #1,274. Did you want to talk about something my post?

Hey Dan_473,

No, I was quoting your comment to EG who said the law serves no purpose at all. Since he is always "agreeing" with you I thought I was ask him if he meant what he said which was in disagreement with you.

Thanks

 

[SimpleGardner]

Well it is surely a wise observation to make that wherever God gave man a command, the adversary was/is there to challenge those who would keep those commands.

There he was in the garden speaking to Eve concerning Gods Commandments where he said "surely He didn't say"

Then in the desert with Jesus, tempting Him to go against the Law where Jesus quoted the law to him.

Jesus gave a parable of the sower where he gives us another example of the same:

Mat 13:19 KJV When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

And to those who misinterpret the NT the same thing. Men are being convinced to ignore the Law.

How many times in history have men;

Jdg 17:6 KJV In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

rather than:

Deu 13:18 KJV When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

Each and every time the adversary was there whispering his words of treachery; "Surely He didnt say"!

Just like he says today in reference to God in the flesh who said:

Mat 5:18-19 KJV For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So they say, "Just let the Spirit lead you, forget the law, its useless" forgetting that every NT writer has warned of deceiving spirits!
1Ti 4:1 KJV Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


Remember that which is good will be called bad.

 

[Dan_473]

Hey Dan_473,

No, I was quoting your comment to EG who said the law serves no purpose at all. Since he is always "agreeing" with you I thought I was ask him if he meant what he said which was in disagreement with you.

Thanks

Sorry, you lost me there.

I believe earlier you had talked about the ceremonial law and the moral law. would you be interested in talking about how you separate the moral law out from the other laws?

 

[gb9]

Well it is surely a wise observation to make that wherever God gave man a command, the adversary was/is there to challenge those who would keep those commands.

There he was in the garden speaking to Eve concerning Gods Commandments where he said "surely He didn't say"

Then in the desert with Jesus, tempting Him to go against the Law where Jesus quoted the law to him.

Jesus gave a parable of the sower where he gives us another example of the same:

Mat 13:19 KJV When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

And to those who misinterpret the NT the same thing. Men are being convinced to ignore the Law.

How many times in history have men;

Jdg 17:6 KJV In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

rather than:

Deu 13:18 KJV When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

Each and every time the adversary was there whispering his words of treachery; "Surely He didnt say"!

Just like he says today in reference to God in the flesh who said:

Mat 5:18-19 KJV For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So they say, "Just let the Spirit lead you, forget the law, its useless" forgetting that every NT writer has warned of deceiving spirits!
1Ti 4:1 KJV Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


Remember that which is good will be called bad.

except-gentiles were never under the Law.

remember, the Law was a Covenant , made between God and Israel at Sinai.

both parties entered this Covenant.

 

[posthuman]

OSAS is not true it is of the Devil. Thou shall not surely die.

'God cannot save you' and 'God will not save you' is of the devil.

what he told the Woman in the garden is that God is a liar. 'did He really say..?'

did God really say whoever believes in Him will live, even if they die?
John 11:25 says, yes.
Satan says, no.

who do you believe?
do you cling to doubt or cling to faith?

 

[DeighAnn]

Rev 14:12 KJV Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Excellent point

 

[DeighAnn]

to put people under the law think the Lord failed?

Does this mean we teach we abide by the spirit of the law and teach others to do so
or
Does this mean we teach under the letter of the law for salvation?