E
Greetings Karraster,
Good citation, but several still insist that the Laws of God are disassociated with the walk of the child of God.
You will never hear them respond to verses like:
Rev 14:12 KJV Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
written after Paul's writings which many pick and choose from to construct their doctrines.
What is at work here from what I see is this; and it starts with most of us in agreement; The Law was offered to the Israelites at Mt Saini, but they refused to receive it from the Spirit/Mouth of God so they requested a mediator, Moses. The chose the letter over the Spirit.
Exo 20:18-21 KJV And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. (19) And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. (20) And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not. (21) And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.
So when God spoke The "Written Law" or the Torah to Moses not only did He hear the words, but he received the Spirit that accompanied it when God gives it directly.
All the people of Israel were to become a “kingdom of priests,” not just a “kingdom with priests" and what made the difference was their refusal to "draw near to God"
So Moses was the only one until we read of the ordination of Aaron and his sons in Leviticus 9 and in vs 23-24 we read where once again the Glory of the Lord appears again, but then only the family of Aaron are added to those who are Priests with the Levites in their company.
Moses, speaks of His disappointment at the "Kingdom with priests" vs a "Kingdom of priests" in;
Num 11:29 KJV And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!
Moses knew first hand that the written Laws of God are insufficient to make men priests...to do this the letter of the Law must be accompanied by the Spirit of God.
So what do we say now?
2Co 3:1-18 NIV Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? (2) You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everybody. (3) You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. (4) Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God. (5) Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. (6) He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (7) Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, (8) will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? (9) If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! (10) For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. (11) And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! (12) Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. (13) We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. (14) But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. (15) Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. (16) But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. (17) Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. (18) And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
So the Letter as Paul says is
Rom 7:7-25 NIV What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." (8) But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. (9) Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. (10) I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. (11) For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. (12) So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. (13) Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful. (14) We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. (15) I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. (16) And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. (17) As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. (18) I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. (19) For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. (20) Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. (21) So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. (22) For in my inner being I delight in God's law; (23) but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. (24) What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? (25) Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
Sadly, I beleive that dogma has prevented many from hearing that the Law is good, but without the Spirit of God it is grevious. So when a man receives the Spirit of God the Law becomes LIFE!
IF IF IF:
Rom 8:6-11 NIV The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; (7) the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. (8) Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. (9) You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. (10) But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. (11) And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
The ifs are critical to a new relationship with the righteous requirements of God
Good citation, but several still insist that the Laws of God are disassociated with the walk of the child of God.
You will never hear them respond to verses like:
Rev 14:12 KJV Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
written after Paul's writings which many pick and choose from to construct their doctrines.
What is at work here from what I see is this; and it starts with most of us in agreement; The Law was offered to the Israelites at Mt Saini, but they refused to receive it from the Spirit/Mouth of God so they requested a mediator, Moses. The chose the letter over the Spirit.
Exo 20:18-21 KJV And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. (19) And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. (20) And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not. (21) And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.
So when God spoke The "Written Law" or the Torah to Moses not only did He hear the words, but he received the Spirit that accompanied it when God gives it directly.
All the people of Israel were to become a “kingdom of priests,” not just a “kingdom with priests" and what made the difference was their refusal to "draw near to God"
So Moses was the only one until we read of the ordination of Aaron and his sons in Leviticus 9 and in vs 23-24 we read where once again the Glory of the Lord appears again, but then only the family of Aaron are added to those who are Priests with the Levites in their company.
Moses, speaks of His disappointment at the "Kingdom with priests" vs a "Kingdom of priests" in;
Num 11:29 KJV And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!
Moses knew first hand that the written Laws of God are insufficient to make men priests...to do this the letter of the Law must be accompanied by the Spirit of God.
So what do we say now?
2Co 3:1-18 NIV Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? (2) You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everybody. (3) You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. (4) Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God. (5) Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. (6) He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (7) Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, (8) will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? (9) If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! (10) For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. (11) And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! (12) Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. (13) We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. (14) But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. (15) Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. (16) But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. (17) Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. (18) And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
So the Letter as Paul says is
Rom 7:7-25 NIV What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." (8) But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. (9) Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. (10) I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. (11) For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. (12) So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. (13) Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful. (14) We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. (15) I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. (16) And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. (17) As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. (18) I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. (19) For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. (20) Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. (21) So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. (22) For in my inner being I delight in God's law; (23) but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. (24) What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? (25) Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
Sadly, I beleive that dogma has prevented many from hearing that the Law is good, but without the Spirit of God it is grevious. So when a man receives the Spirit of God the Law becomes LIFE!
IF IF IF:
Rom 8:6-11 NIV The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; (7) the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. (8) Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. (9) You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. (10) But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. (11) And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
The ifs are critical to a new relationship with the righteous requirements of God
Will you please answer HOW the moral code helps us in our walk with God??
I have been patiently waiting.
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