Did Jesus Have a Political Message?

[emmab00]

I have always been a firm believer in Jesus's teachings, but for some reason I have always felt that the world we live in in terms of politics does not mix with his message. From the way I interpret the Bible it looks like Jesus might have had issues with political institutions, seemingly even to the extent of anarachy. Any thoughts on Jesus's actions and how they reflect his political views?

 

[kenisyes]

Jesus was pretty clear that His Kingdom is not of this world. He paid taxes, and submitted to the government, but did not recommend them as anything more than peacekeepers. The way I do it, is "Christians don't live here, we work here". Upon being saved, you enter the Kingdom of God. This kingdom has a different set of rules (if you can call them rules, it's more like "relationship"). We minister here to help God fix the world, which is part of the transformation Jesus earned for creation when He died. In the Kingdom of God, you get all the necessary benefits for life, even a victorious life, that the government is supposed to provide, and a lot more besides.

In one of your posts, you say you have leanings toward being a Christian anarchist. If by that you mean we'd be better off if we let Jesus rule us, I agree wholeheartedly. If you mean we should act so as to make it happen, I'd say the best actions are letting Jesus use us His way, day by day, and person by person.

 

[emmab00]

I'm not sure I agree with you that Jesus says His Kingom is not of this world. I believe that Heaven and Earth affect each other profoundly.

I know Jesus said "render unto caesar that which is caesars" but following that statement he also said to give unto God that which belongs to God. Jesus never said strraight out to pay taxes, just to give caesar what is his. I'm inclined to believe Jesus was saying that the coins ultimately belonged to God, not to Caesar, and God gave what is on this is to mankind as a whole. I don't think he was claiming the coins were not caesars either however (if they belong to everyone as a whole it is just as much a lie to say they are caesars as to say they aren't) , giving people the free choice to either pay the taxes or not.

However, if the coins were thought to belong to caesar, then taking them as payment at all would be unchristian, even if paying them as taxes was not. If christians are advised to "owe no man," than accepting coins that they eventually need to return to their rightful owner is more of a loan than a payment.

As for his submission to the government, the government officials crucified him because they recognized him as a threat to their position of power. Jesus can't exist with them still being able to keep their status.

I don't mean necessarily that Jesus should rule us, just be a perfect example for us. He didn't want to rule us either, because he recognized that all glory was supposed to go to God. The idea is that underlying any political system we have is still anarchy. That's God's law. All our laws do is justify mistreating the people who do things we don't like. Our focus should be on healing relationships, not on using political structures to distance ourselves from each other out of hatred,pride, and fear.

But I totally agree that it is a person by person movement, and if I were to choose a leader of it, it would definitely be Jesus.

Why do you say Heaven has a different set of rules btw? The rules seem to be intertwined with Earth's rules to me.

 

[jimmydiggs]

He certainly wasn't an anarchist.

 

[homwardbound]

I'm not sure I agree with you that Jesus says His Kingom is not of this world. I believe that Heaven and Earth affect each other profoundly.


But I totally agree that it is a person by person movement, and if I were to choose a leader of it, it would definitely be Jesus.

Why do you say Heaven has a different set of rules btw? The rules seem to be intertwined with Earth's rules to me.

in answer to your first quote it is clear that this world is not a part of his kingdom
John 18:36
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

This world does not know him and cannot
John 14:17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

This world goes by law and controls by law and is the opposite of God's love, mercy, there is no selfishness in Heaven. And this is not for anyone to take advantage of it is to appreciate and act out of appreciation thanking God for this great mercy that has been bestowed upon us, once we come to b elief that is

John 14:27
Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.


The world and its way are not intertwined with the Spirit of God at all

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

The above shows the diffearance between the world (flesh) and Spirit (life)
Homwardbound

 

[1Christianwarrior316]

I'm not sure I agree with you that Jesus says His Kingom is not of this world.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Do you not believe the words of our Lord and Savior?

In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316

 

[JaumeJ]

No, He did not, at least not in the sense of political parties. He is King, ergo the politics of anyone who believes Him is absolute monarchy. Yupper, He is my King forever, amen.

 

[Donkeyfish07]

I'm not sure I agree with you that Jesus says His Kingom is not of this world. I believe that Heaven and Earth affect each other profoundly.

I know Jesus said "render unto caesar that which is caesars" but following that statement he also said to give unto God that which belongs to God. Jesus never said strraight out to pay taxes, just to give caesar what is his. I'm inclined to believe Jesus was saying that the coins ultimately belonged to God, not to Caesar, and God gave what is on this is to mankind as a whole. I don't think he was claiming the coins were not caesars either however (if they belong to everyone as a whole it is just as much a lie to say they are caesars as to say they aren't) , giving people the free choice to either pay the taxes or not.

However, if the coins were thought to belong to caesar, then taking them as payment at all would be unchristian, even if paying them as taxes was not. If christians are advised to "owe no man," than accepting coins that they eventually need to return to their rightful owner is more of a loan than a payment.

As for his submission to the government, the government officials crucified him because they recognized him as a threat to their position of power. Jesus can't exist with them still being able to keep their status.

I don't mean necessarily that Jesus should rule us, just be a perfect example for us. He didn't want to rule us either, because he recognized that all glory was supposed to go to God. The idea is that underlying any political system we have is still anarchy. That's God's law. All our laws do is justify mistreating the people who do things we don't like. Our focus should be on healing relationships, not on using political structures to distance ourselves from each other out of hatred,pride, and fear.

But I totally agree that it is a person by person movement, and if I were to choose a leader of it, it would definitely be Jesus.

Why do you say Heaven has a different set of rules btw? The rules seem to be intertwined with Earth's rules to me.

Jesus was not into politics at all, the only things he ever encouraged us to do is repent for our sins, Love God with all our heart, soul, and mind, and love our neighbor as our self, etc. Political/Anti-Political systems created by man will always fall short of that, Anarchy included. I personally believe Anarchy is a much much better approach than our current system is using in the U.S., but it is still inferior to God's way and it is not compatible nor related in any way.

 

[Trax]

I don't mean necessarily that Jesus should rule us, just be a perfect example for us. He didn't want to rule us either, because he recognized that all glory was supposed to go to God.

A person is ruled by Jesus or by satan. Jesus is the King of kings. Jesus is more than just
a good example.

Joh 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest
that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear
witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Joh 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
God. (2) The same was in the beginning with God. (3) All things were made by him; and without him
was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the
glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus was God in the flesh. He is the King of all things and creator of all things. He sets up
government institutions and says pay your taxes to them.

Rev 19:11-16 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was
called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. (12) His eyes were as a
flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but
he himself. (13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word
of God. (14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine
linen, white and clean. (15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite
the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness
and wrath of Almighty God. (16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF
KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Php 2:9-10 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every
name: (10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in
earth, and things under the earth;

 

[zone]

No, He did not, at least not in the sense of political parties. He is King, ergo the politics of anyone who believes Him is absolute monarchy. Yupper, He is my King forever, amen.

jack
He is my King also, amen.

 

[kenisyes]

I'm not sure I agree with you that Jesus says His Kingom is not of this world. I believe that Heaven and Earth affect each other profoundly.

I know Jesus said "render unto caesar that which is caesars" but following that statement he also said to give unto God that which belongs to God. Jesus never said strraight out to pay taxes, just to give caesar what is his. I'm inclined to believe Jesus was saying that the coins ultimately belonged to God, not to Caesar, and God gave what is on this is to mankind as a whole. I don't think he was claiming the coins were not caesars either however (if they belong to everyone as a whole it is just as much a lie to say they are caesars as to say they aren't) , giving people the free choice to either pay the taxes or not.

However, if the coins were thought to belong to caesar, then taking them as payment at all would be unchristian, even if paying them as taxes was not. If christians are advised to "owe no man," than accepting coins that they eventually need to return to their rightful owner is more of a loan than a payment.

As for his submission to the government, the government officials crucified him because they recognized him as a threat to their position of power. Jesus can't exist with them still being able to keep their status.

I don't mean necessarily that Jesus should rule us, just be a perfect example for us. He didn't want to rule us either, because he recognized that all glory was supposed to go to God. The idea is that underlying any political system we have is still anarchy. That's God's law. All our laws do is justify mistreating the people who do things we don't like. Our focus should be on healing relationships, not on using political structures to distance ourselves from each other out of hatred,pride, and fear.

But I totally agree that it is a person by person movement, and if I were to choose a leader of it, it would definitely be Jesus.

Why do you say Heaven has a different set of rules btw? The rules seem to be intertwined with Earth's rules to me.

We are using "of" in two different ways. Jesus' kingdom does not derive its right to exist from earthly reality or from earthly consent. The earth does not derive its right to exist from either of those either, but from heaven. That is the way in which heaven affects earth. Heaven defines earth.

Earth affects heaven by being a place where God can show His love even to creatures that can say no (like us). That is, things on earth can block things from heaven (sin can block blessings).

So Jesus' kingdom is not "of" the world, that is, is not defined by the world. But heaven notes the effects "of" earth (blessings being blocked) and earth notes the effects "of" heaven (recognizing a greater potential it reaches out to heaven to fulfill).

Jesus caught a special fish and extracted the Temple tax coin from it. Jesus' response "render to Caesar" was in to a question about paying taxes. Caesar gives coins to us to use as a medium of exchange with a guarantee they will be honored as such, and expects a percentage back in exchange for his trouble; that's what taxation is about. taxes support the government so they can give us things we cannot trust God for.

You are right. Money is a loan. Almost all the work I do now, I do for free. God arranged to set me up, so I now have enough money. Even when I was working full time, I did it for part time effort, and was always ministering for free part time, at least. The philosophy of money is that it motivates people to do things they would otherwise hesitate doing. Of course, it would not work if people did not want more than they have; that's why the government needs to motivate the system by keeping most people somewhat in need and building at least a little greed in them. If people would work for free, money would become useless and the government would have no hold over people. I need money, only because most of the people I need to get things from, do not realize how things could work, if we let God be in charge.

Jesus could have called for ten thousand angels to set Him free from the authorities any time He chose. He submitted to the authorities' need to keep the system with its cycle of controlled sin going. He now is at the right hand of the Father, and His intercession is setting us free, one person at a time.

The Bible does say that God will put "all things under His feet", and "He will rule them with a rod of iron", and then that He will return them to His Father in the end. Anarchy is desiring no government. The Bible speaks frequently of Jesus' government. It will be just, kind, true, peaceful. That's actually called theocracy. I agree with you on where our focus should be.

Different rules: In the early church, salvation preaching normally started with the doctrine of the "two ways". In today's words, the Kingdom of God is a separate reality, alongside the kingdom of this world. They are almost like those "parallel universes", that the scifi writers use every so often. Everyone is born as babies into the Kingdom of this World (KW). Upon getting saved, they become citizens of the kingdom of God (KG). Christians who do not return to being citizens of the KW by unrepented sin, operate under a different set of rules. For example, in KW, you have to struggle for all the money you can get, and be afraid of losing it. In KG, "seek first the kingdom, and all else is given", and "love casts out fear". We can multiply this with what you do about being sick, how to bring up your children, and many other things. Most people who say they are Christian do not ever try to really live in KG; they stay on a comfortable fence, with "dual citizenship" as it were, so you don't see it very much. If you live in KG, you normally are sent to minister in KW, to let Jesus use you to help Him fix some of what is broken by sin. While you are there, you submit to their leadership, as did He.

 

[Powemm]

Did Jesus have a political message? Well sure he did
His message is .... Gods in control over all of it . True that!!

 

[emmab00]

Why can't Jesus be an anarchist?

In response to the verse "John 18:36
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”'
~Okay I see what he means by "not of this world" It seems to me Jesus is saying here that the kingdom of heaven is not being fulfilled on the earth. If it was, then the jews would be fighting to keep him. It is not saying that heaven and earth are not connected, to deny such would be to deny Jesus's existence at all considering he is God embodied.

"This world goes by law and controls by law and is the opposite of God's love, mercy, there is no selfishness in Heaven. And this is not for anyone to take advantage of it is to appreciate and act out of appreciation thanking God for this great mercy that has been bestowed upon us, once we come to b elief that is"
~I agree with this completely. God saw fit to give us free will because he loves us. His laws are more like the laws of physics, of cause and effect. Man creates laws so they can punish and ostracize members of society rather than trying to love them an reach a new understanding. The instant we create a state to create laws to "protect us" (or to do the dirty work for us rather so we can feel as though we weren't the sinful ones) we create a system that enslaves us with pride. We are not meant to live by man's law. Why would God give us free will and the ability to break it otherwise?

"John 14:27
Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.


The world and its way are not intertwined with the Spirit of God at all"
~ I could not disagree more. Jesus is only saying that the world is corrupted, not that it is not intertwined. There are many individuals on the earth who are of God, but mankind can really only be liberated by God in the flesh when all of the world accepts him and is purified in Christ, otherwise we are all still suffering, because we are all connected. Even God suffered for our sins. He is deeply connected to us and this world.


"8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God."
~ I really agree with this scripture, but not necessarily the interpretation of it. I interpret it more like this: Matthew 4:4 "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Bread being that which nourishes the body an the words of Go being that which nourishes the spirit. When we live our lives and tell ourselves in reality that our body of flesh is more important than our spirit, we end up submitting to evil societies for the sake of saving our own bodies. The flesh has been corrupted, but it can be purified through Christ. Christ didn't have sinful flesh. He had the likeness of sinful flesh. He fulfilled God's purpose in the flesh and is an example of how to free ourselves. Jesus denounced all personal wealth and toldd us to have faith that God would provide for our needs, not the State or our jobs or whatever else we say really provides for us. This scripture is saying Jesus set us free from the sin of the flesh. All the scriptures you quoted are not saying that because we are in the flesh we cannot follow God, they are saying that we cannot put the importance of our flesh above the importance of our spirits.

 

[emmab00]

"We are using "of" in two different ways. Jesus' kingdom does not derive its right to exist from earthly reality or from earthly consent. The earth does not derive its right to exist from either of those either, but from heaven. That is the way in which heaven affects earth. Heaven defines earth. "

Earth affects heaven by being a place where God can show His love even to creatures that can say no (like us). That is, things on earth can block things from heaven (sin can block blessings).

So Jesus' kingdom is not "of" the world, that is, is not defined by the world. But heaven notes the effects "of" earth (blessings being blocked) and earth notes the effects "of" heaven (recognizing a greater potential it reaches out to heaven to fulfill).
~I love this. I completely agree.

"Jesus caught a special fish and extracted the Temple tax coin from it. Jesus' response "render to Caesar" was in to a question about paying taxes. Caesar gives coins to us to use as a medium of exchange with a guarantee they will be honored as such, and expects a percentage back in exchange for his trouble; that's what taxation is about. taxes support the government so they can give us things we cannot trust God for."
~ You are right, that is the idea. We create a state for the things we cannot trust God for, therefore it is formed out of a lack of faith and sin. The whole sermon on the mount was devoted to telling us that we need to have faith that Go knows our needs and will provide us with them. Give no thought of tomorrow, it will take care of itself. When we depend on man's system to take care of man is when people end up dying of starvation or of having no home to keep them safe.

"You are right. Money is a loan. Almost all the work I do now, I do for free. God arranged to set me up, so I now have enough money. Even when I was working full time, I did it for part time effort, and was always ministering for free part time, at least. The philosophy of money is that it motivates people to do things they would otherwise hesitate doing. Of course, it would not work if people did not want more than they have; that's why the government needs to motivate the system by keeping most people somewhat in need and building at least a little greed in them. If people would work for free, money would become useless and the government would have no hold over people. I need money, only because most of the people I need to get things from, do not realize how things could work, if we let God be in charge."
~ I agree completely! Well put. The lie people often tell themselves in defense of money is that we would not produce without the promise of material wealth. I just point to Jesus and say our sole motivation needs to be love, not to accomodate our own flesh.

Jesus could have called for ten thousand angels to set Him free from the authorities any time He chose. He submitted to the authorities' need to keep the system with its cycle of controlled sin going. He now is at the right hand of the Father, and His intercession is setting us free, one person at a time.

The Bible does say that God will put "all things under His feet", and "He will rule them with a rod of iron", and then that He will return them to His Father in the end. Anarchy is desiring no government. The Bible speaks frequently of Jesus' government. It will be just, kind, true, peaceful. That's actually called theocracy. I agree with you on where our focus should be.

Different rules: In the early church, salvation preaching normally started with the doctrine of the "two ways". In today's words, the Kingdom of God is a separate reality, alongside the kingdom of this world. They are almost like those "parallel universes", that the scifi writers use every so often. Everyone is born as babies into the Kingdom of this World (KW). Upon getting saved, they become citizens of the kingdom of God (KG). Christians who do not return to being citizens of the KW by unrepented sin, operate under a different set of rules. For example, in KW, you have to struggle for all the money you can get, and be afraid of losing it. In KG, "seek first the kingdom, and all else is given", and "love casts out fear". We can multiply this with what you do about being sick, how to bring up your children, and many other things. Most people who say they are Christian do not ever try to really live in KG; they stay on a comfortable fence, with "dual citizenship" as it were, so you don't see it very much. If you live in KG, you normally are sent to minister in KW, to let Jesus use you to help Him fix some of what is broken by sin. While you are there, you submit to their leadership, as did He.
~I'm not sure Jesus was totally willing to submit to the leadership of the KW. I think the idea behind Christian anarchy is that we have free will given to us by God. Jesus idn't necessarily submit to their power and ideas, I feel, as much as he submitted to their right to act through free will. He does not believe in condemning and putting people in bondage. I don't believe he agrees with political instituitons existing, but to overthrow them is as much of a sin as to use them for bondage.

 

[emmab00]

"A person is ruled by Jesus or by satan. Jesus is the King of kings. Jesus is more than just
a good example."

~ Really? I can understand and agree with the idea that we can only submit to one master. My argument is that submitting to God means submitting to no political institution, but only the laws of nature, truth, and love. If Jesus was not meant to be the example by which we live, how do you explain John13:14-15?

"14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you."
~He is showing that to rule IS to serve God and therefore serve one another. To idolize and worship Jesus in the flesh is a sin. He gives all credit to God and shows that being a human purified in the flesh means to serve one another, and allowing God to work through them. Jesus was just a perfect conduit for the spirit of God and THAT was what made him a "king".

"Jesus was God in the flesh. He is the King of all things and creator of all things. He sets up government institutions and says pay your taxes to them. "

~The scriptures I read actually implies Jesus didn't agree with paying taxes. Matt 17:24-27 "24And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
25He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee."
~Jesus seems to be saying that because we are children of God, we should have to pay tribute to no one. We are "in". We don't ask our kids to pay rent. They are a part of the family wealth. The only people who ask for tribute are those who regard other men as strangers, and that is a sinful iddealogy. But the scripture also implies that it is more important for Jesus not to offen these people than it is to start a big fight over money and why it's wrong that they ask for it. As for Jesus being the king of king and lord of lords, that is meant to emphasize how we need to submit to him above our own kings and lords. Jesus told us to give up our worldy possessions and to live a life of poverty and follow him. If you're not doing that for the sake of "protecting"(which in reality is damning) your own flesh then you are a sinner. Let them persecute you.
　
You used this quote:

Php 2:9-10 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: (10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

~I'm just going to go ahead and put a little more context in there: Php 2:3-11
3Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
~Jesus was exahlted by God because he took no reputation. He "lost" his life for God's sake and so he found it. Only then can the name Jesus resemble God's love and power. To be God incarnate is to be a servant to mankind. We are meant to look at what other people have because it is our responsibilty to take care of our human family. If you have anything beyon your own basic needs while there are people suffering and dying in the world, God does not know you. You work in iniquity. We justify having things beyond our own needs because of our flesh. This is the essence of our sin. Hence Jesus divested all of his wealth and power and called for us to do the same. The politcial result of such an action is called Christian anarchy, where God rules over man through man by serving man.

 

[tribesman]

Jesus' message could maybe not be said to be political per se, but certainly has political consequences.

 

[emmab00]

He certainly wasn't an anarchist.

Why not? Underneath every institution we create whether you like it or not is anarchy. It is the system God created and gave us free will in. The system He created is perfect and provides for us all. So how could it be appropriate to form a system within God's system if God's system is perfect? Is God's system lacking? We created our institutions out of a lack of faith in God that his love acting through us provides for us. We think it's us who is providing everything for ourselves, so we decide to make the rules. For Jesus the only rule was to have faith in love.

 

[tribesman]

Why not? Underneath every institution we create whether you like it or not is anarchy. It is the system Go created and gave us free will in. The system he created is perfect and provides for us. So how could it be appropriate to form a system within God's system if God's system is perfect? We created our institutions out of a lack of faith in God that his love acting through us is what provides for us. We think it's us who is proviing everything for ourselves, so we decide to make the rules. For Jesus the only rule was to have faith in love.

Do you see any trace of anarchism in the law of God? Remember that Jesus kept every jot and tittle of that law.

 

[emmab00]

Jesus' message could maybe not be said to be political per se, but certainly has political consequences.

I can agree with this. Jesus seems to shy away from making any direct political confrontations, but I argue that doing so would have been unneccessary, because his actions already had huge social and political ramifications. For example, how could America's democracy and capitalism continue to function if everyone did what Jesus asked and give up all of their material goods and live for the purpose of loving and serving one another rather than acquiring wealth?

So if someone says "I believe in a world where everyone gives up there wealth to the common purpose of loving and caring for humanity" can you really say that is not a political statement? The consequences are a form of communism which is inarguably political.

 

[Donkeyfish07]

Why not? Underneath every institution we create whether you like it or not is anarchy. It is the system God created and gave us free will in. The system He created is perfect and provides for us all. So how could it be appropriate to form a system within God's system if God's system is perfect? Is God's system lacking? We created our institutions out of a lack of faith in God that his love acting through us provides for us. We think it's us who is providing everything for ourselves, so we decide to make the rules. For Jesus the only rule was to have faith in love.

Free will does not = Anarchy. Love does not = Anarchy. Faith does not = Anarchy. Hope does not = Anarchy. Submitting to the will of God does not = Anarchy. The Kingdom of Heaven does not = Anarchy. I don't see how your making that connection.