Did Jesus suffer hell on the Cross?

[Dino246]

• HE LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE
  
  After Jesus died on the Cross, He went down into Paradise to "lead captivity captive" (Eph. 4:8). This strange term means that all of the Old Testament Saints were actually captives of Satan, in effect, kept in this place against their will, in fact, awaiting the coming of Christ. And let it be understood, when Jesus went down into this place, He did not go there as a defeated worm, as some claim, but He went as a victorious conqueror, which, in fact, He was. That is what the Scripture means when it says that Christ descended first into Hell, the lower parts of the Earth (Ps. 16:10; Acts 2:27; Eph. 4:8-10). He captured these righteous souls from Satan, and there was nothing the Evil One could do about it, leading them captive to Heaven when He ascended on high. This fulfilled Psalms 68:18.
  
  Prior to this, as stated, all righteous souls went into Hades or Sheol when they died, along with the souls of the wicked who went to another compartment of that place. These two compartments had a great gulf between them (Lk. 16:19-31), in effect, separating the two. Since the Cross, every Believer upon death immediately goes to Heaven to await the Resurrection of the body (II Cor. 5:8; Phil. 1:21-24; Heb. 12:23; Rev. 6:9-11).
  
  When the wicked die, they continue to go into this torment compartment of Hades or Sheol until the end of the Millennium. Then death and Hell will deliver up the wicked souls, who will be reunited with their bodies and resurrected to be sentenced to the Lake of Fire, which will take place at the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev. 20:11-15).
  
  In this context a person could say that Jesus went to Hell, but it in no way means that He went down into the burning flames of the Pit as a sinner. Nor was He molested by Satan, triumphed over by the powers of darkness, and then suddenly justified by God and born again as the "Firstborn among many brethren" (Rom. 8:29). This is an erroneous teaching that does not understand the Scriptural sense of the Atonement and the vicarious Sacrifice paid by Christ at Calvary’s Cross as a Sin Offering.
  
  As well, of Jesus during the three days and nights He was in the heart of the Earth, the Scripture says:
  
  "By which also He went (between the time of His Death and Resurrection) and preached (announced something) unto the spirits in prison (does not refer to humans, but rather to fallen Angels; humans in the Bible are never referred to in this particular manner; these were probably the fallen Angels who tried to corrupt the human race by cohabiting with women [II Pet. 2:4; Jude, Vss. 6-7]; these fallen Angels are still locked up in this underworld prison);
  
  "Which sometime (in times past) were disobedient (this was shortly before the Flood), when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah (refers to this eruption of fallen Angels with women taking place at the time of Noah; this was probably a hundred or so years before the Flood), while the Ark was a preparing (these fallen Angels were committing this particular sin while the Ark was being made ready, however long it took; the Scripture doesn't say!), wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (This doesn't refer to being Saved from sin. They were saved from drowning in the Flood by being in the Ark)" (I Pet. 3:19-20).
  
  
  
  What Jesus said to these fallen Angels we aren't told, but the following must be said.
  
  FROM THE CROSS TO THE RESURRECTION
  
  The Word of God relates only two things to us, even as we have enumerated, which Christ did during His three days and nights in the heart of the Earth, between His Death on Calvary and His Resurrection. They are:
  
  
• He preached to these fallen Angels who were locked up and, in fact, are still locked up at this time in the heart of the Earth. They will, at the Great White Throne Judgment, be placed into the Lake of Fire with their master Satan, where they will remain forever and forever (Rev. 20:10-15).
  
  The word "preached" as Peter used it here, is not the same Greek word used as we normally think of preaching. It actually means that Jesus made an announcement to these Angels, but it doesn't say what that announcement was. Quite possibly, the Cross now being a fact where every sin was atoned and Redemption afforded for all who will believe, He related to them the stern fact that they had failed and failed miserably.
  
  
• He went into the place called Paradise, where He "led captivity captive," meaning that He delivered every righteous soul in that place, taking them with Him to Heaven. The compartment called Paradise is now empty.
  
  Those two things alone are all that the Scripture says as it regards what Jesus did between the Cross and His Resurrection. The Scripture says absolutely nothing about Jesus going into the burning side of the Pit, where He suffered as a sinner for three days and nights, etc. All of that is a fabrication.
  
  No, Jesus did not die spiritually on the Cross. He did not go to the burning side of Hell. He was not placed under Satan's domain. He was not subject to the Evil One. He was, in fact, the Perfect Sacrifice as our Substitute, given up as a "Sin Offering." He died physically, not spiritually.
  
  ARE THOSE WHO SUBSCRIBE TO THE JESUS DIED SPIRITUALLY DOCTRINE, SAVED?
  
  Some are, and some aren't!
  
  If it is to be noticed, those who are in this particular
  
  doctrine claim that it's not their business to try to get people Saved, but rather to lead them to a deeper experience with God, which, in effect, will tell them how to get rich, etc. So, precious few people are Saved under these particular Ministries, whoever they might be.
  
  The reason should be obvious, what they are preaching is error and, in fact, a person cannot be Saved by believing that error. So they don't even try to get people to come to Christ.
  
  The truth is, many of the people in this doctrine, gave their hearts to Christ, and were truly Saved, before believing this particular fabrication. In fact, most people in the Word of Faith teaching have little or no understanding at all of the "Jesus died spiritually doctrine." As stated, they have already given their hearts and lives to Christ under other types of ministry. If the cover be pulled off this teaching, most have embraced its concepts, thinking that it is their avenue to riches. To be sure, there are riches involved, but it's only for a few of the preachers and not for the people at all.
  
  Regrettably, the "Jesus died spiritually doctrine" repudiates the Cross, referring to it as "past miseries," and "the worst defeat in human history." Many, if not most, of their Churches refuse to even sing songs about the Blood, about the Cross, about the great Sacrifice of Christ, concluding and claiming that such are "defeatist."
  
  All of that is strange when Paul said, "I, Brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the Testimony of God.
  
  "For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and Him Crucified" (I Cor. 2:1-2).
  
  If the Cross of Christ was the primary Message of the Apostle Paul, it had better be our primary Message as well!

JSM

Seven LOOOONG posts? Waaaay TL; DR.

 

[Dino246]

The cross is one part of the demonstration used to represent the metaphor "three day in the heart of the earth" or "belly of the whale" literally called hell as a living suffering.( Die once) God does not accept dead sacrifices. The dead animals that were used to represent life. Its blood separate from the spirit must be poured at the foot of the altar to show its return to the lifeless spiritless dust it was taken from. The temporal corrupted spirit subject to the letter of the law death returns to the father of all spirit life. No suffering beyond death.

The garden portion of that three days in the heart of the earth parable gives what I think a clearer picture that shows the flesh and blood profits for nothing but it is rather the unseen work of the father pouring out His spirit on the flesh of Jesus as that which can profit. To do what the letter of the law could not.

Your confusion is deepening.

The cross is not "part of the demonstration used to represent the metaphor..."; that's ridiculous. The cross is the real, literal instrument on which Jesus, God incarnate, was really, literally sacrificed for the sin of mankind. Nowhere in Scripture is it suggested that "three days in the heart of the earth" or "belly of the whale" are metaphors; that is your own invention. Dead animals were never used to represent life. There is no "garden portion" of the three days in the heart of the earth. The story of the rich man clearly demonstrates that there is suffering after death.

You really need sound instruction. Whatever method you're using presently is leading only to stubbornly-held, multi-layered error.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

How do you interpret 1 Peter 3:18-20? Not for atonement but to proclaim a message.

The forsaken me passage was Jesus quoting a OT prophecy. If you read the prophecy then you will understand what he was saying.

I know where Jesus was quoting from. He was quoting from Psalm 22. Pointing this out doesn't affect my understanding of this Scripture. In essence, Jesus suffered the effects of the Curse on the Cross, which meant that he was abandoned at the point when he took the sins of the elect upon himself. The wages of sin is death, which is talking about spiritual separation from God. In one sense, Adam and Eve were both forsaken by God when they were cast out of the Garden, the holy space where they walked freely in the manifest presence of God.

1 Peter 3:18-20 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
(ESV)

Regarding these verses I will present three popular ways of viewing them according to the NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible. I hold the second option.


1 Peter 3:19 3:19–20a These difficult verses have been understood in three very different ways. Traditionally they have been used to support the idea that Jesus descended into hell on the Saturday between his crucifixion and resurrection—when his body was dead but his spirit remained alive (v. 18). At that time he preached either to the souls of people who were disobedient in the days of Noah or to fallen angels who had incited humans to such evil that God sent the flood at the time of Noah to destroy it (Gen 6:1–7). A second view is that the preincarnate Christ preached through Noah to the wicked generation destroyed by the flood. A third view is that Christ’s resurrection and ascension were the proclamation of victory over the most extreme powers of evil the earth has ever known, which these “imprisoned spirits” represent. With Jesus’ victory over death, their condemnation was sealed.
(NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible)

In other words, my view would be that Christ spoke through Noah to the people of his generation. I do not hold the position that Jesus entered hell to preach to fallen spirits about his victory.

Now, you have even weirder stuff from the Word of Faith crowd, who claim that Jesus had the snot beat out of him by demons. If you have heard Joyce Meyer describe her vision in this regard, it is really creepy. Copeland has claimed similar things.

 

[Magenta]

Seven LOOOONG posts? Waaaay TL; DR.

Also known as "flooding."

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I’m not sure if Jesus suffered in fire and torment on the cross, but what’s interesting is He did say what the rich man said as he was in hell and that is, I thirst.

I don't believe he experienced the fire of hell on the Cross, or after it.

However, I believe that elements of the cross experience reflect the Curse and its' punishment, and he basically became cursed on the Cross for us. Colin Smith's article indicates this. He was resurrected and vindicated, though, because he was innocent.

You will see allusions to the Fall and the Garden of Eden within the events leading up to the crucifixion, the crucifixion itself, and the resurrection.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I know where Jesus was quoting from. He was quoting from Psalm 22. Pointing this out doesn't affect my understanding of this Scripture. In essence, Jesus suffered the effects of the Curse on the Cross, which meant that he was abandoned at the point when he took the sins of the elect upon himself. The wages of sin is death, which is talking about spiritual separation from God. In one sense, Adam and Eve were both forsaken by God when they were cast out of the Garden, the holy space where they walked freely in the manifest presence of God.

1 Peter 3:18-20 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
(ESV)

Regarding these verses I will present three popular ways of viewing them according to the NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible. I hold the second option.


1 Peter 3:19 3:19–20a These difficult verses have been understood in three very different ways. Traditionally they have been used to support the idea that Jesus descended into hell on the Saturday between his crucifixion and resurrection—when his body was dead but his spirit remained alive (v. 18). At that time he preached either to the souls of people who were disobedient in the days of Noah or to fallen angels who had incited humans to such evil that God sent the flood at the time of Noah to destroy it (Gen 6:1–7). A second view is that the preincarnate Christ preached through Noah to the wicked generation destroyed by the flood. A third view is that Christ’s resurrection and ascension were the proclamation of victory over the most extreme powers of evil the earth has ever known, which these “imprisoned spirits” represent. With Jesus’ victory over death, their condemnation was sealed.
(NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible)

In other words, my view would be that Christ spoke through Noah to the people of his generation. I do not hold the position that Jesus entered hell to preach to fallen spirits about his victory.

Now, you have even weirder stuff from the Word of Faith crowd, who claim that Jesus had the snot beat out of him by demons. If you have heard Joyce Meyer describe her vision in this regard, it is really creepy. Copeland has claimed similar things.

Alright I see your view. That is interesting. I dont see it in scripture but whatever Jesus did, was or experienced in death doesn't bother me. Doesn't change what he accomplished.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

• HE LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE
  
  After Jesus died on the Cross, He went down into Paradise to "lead captivity captive" (Eph. 4:8). This strange term means that all of the Old Testament Saints were actually captives of Satan, in effect, kept in this place against their will, in fact, awaiting the coming of Christ. And let it be understood, when Jesus went down into this place, He did not go there as a defeated worm, as some claim, but He went as a victorious conqueror, which, in fact, He was. That is what the Scripture means when it says that Christ descended first into Hell, the lower parts of the Earth (Ps. 16:10; Acts 2:27; Eph. 4:8-10). He captured these righteous souls from Satan, and there was nothing the Evil One could do about it, leading them captive to Heaven when He ascended on high. This fulfilled Psalms 68:18.
  
  Prior to this, as stated, all righteous souls went into Hades or Sheol when they died, along with the souls of the wicked who went to another compartment of that place. These two compartments had a great gulf between them (Lk. 16:19-31), in effect, separating the two. Since the Cross, every Believer upon death immediately goes to Heaven to await the Resurrection of the body (II Cor. 5:8; Phil. 1:21-24; Heb. 12:23; Rev. 6:9-11).
  
  When the wicked die, they continue to go into this torment compartment of Hades or Sheol until the end of the Millennium. Then death and Hell will deliver up the wicked souls, who will be reunited with their bodies and resurrected to be sentenced to the Lake of Fire, which will take place at the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev. 20:11-15).
  
  In this context a person could say that Jesus went to Hell, but it in no way means that He went down into the burning flames of the Pit as a sinner. Nor was He molested by Satan, triumphed over by the powers of darkness, and then suddenly justified by God and born again as the "Firstborn among many brethren" (Rom. 8:29). This is an erroneous teaching that does not understand the Scriptural sense of the Atonement and the vicarious Sacrifice paid by Christ at Calvary’s Cross as a Sin Offering.
  
  As well, of Jesus during the three days and nights He was in the heart of the Earth, the Scripture says:
  
  "By which also He went (between the time of His Death and Resurrection) and preached (announced something) unto the spirits in prison (does not refer to humans, but rather to fallen Angels; humans in the Bible are never referred to in this particular manner; these were probably the fallen Angels who tried to corrupt the human race by cohabiting with women [II Pet. 2:4; Jude, Vss. 6-7]; these fallen Angels are still locked up in this underworld prison);
  
  "Which sometime (in times past) were disobedient (this was shortly before the Flood), when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah (refers to this eruption of fallen Angels with women taking place at the time of Noah; this was probably a hundred or so years before the Flood), while the Ark was a preparing (these fallen Angels were committing this particular sin while the Ark was being made ready, however long it took; the Scripture doesn't say!), wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (This doesn't refer to being Saved from sin. They were saved from drowning in the Flood by being in the Ark)" (I Pet. 3:19-20).
  
  
  
  What Jesus said to these fallen Angels we aren't told, but the following must be said.
  
  FROM THE CROSS TO THE RESURRECTION
  
  The Word of God relates only two things to us, even as we have enumerated, which Christ did during His three days and nights in the heart of the Earth, between His Death on Calvary and His Resurrection. They are:
  
  
• He preached to these fallen Angels who were locked up and, in fact, are still locked up at this time in the heart of the Earth. They will, at the Great White Throne Judgment, be placed into the Lake of Fire with their master Satan, where they will remain forever and forever (Rev. 20:10-15).
  
  The word "preached" as Peter used it here, is not the same Greek word used as we normally think of preaching. It actually means that Jesus made an announcement to these Angels, but it doesn't say what that announcement was. Quite possibly, the Cross now being a fact where every sin was atoned and Redemption afforded for all who will believe, He related to them the stern fact that they had failed and failed miserably.
  
  
• He went into the place called Paradise, where He "led captivity captive," meaning that He delivered every righteous soul in that place, taking them with Him to Heaven. The compartment called Paradise is now empty.
  
  Those two things alone are all that the Scripture says as it regards what Jesus did between the Cross and His Resurrection. The Scripture says absolutely nothing about Jesus going into the burning side of the Pit, where He suffered as a sinner for three days and nights, etc. All of that is a fabrication.
  
  No, Jesus did not die spiritually on the Cross. He did not go to the burning side of Hell. He was not placed under Satan's domain. He was not subject to the Evil One. He was, in fact, the Perfect Sacrifice as our Substitute, given up as a "Sin Offering." He died physically, not spiritually.
  
  ARE THOSE WHO SUBSCRIBE TO THE JESUS DIED SPIRITUALLY DOCTRINE, SAVED?
  
  Some are, and some aren't!
  
  If it is to be noticed, those who are in this particular
  
  doctrine claim that it's not their business to try to get people Saved, but rather to lead them to a deeper experience with God, which, in effect, will tell them how to get rich, etc. So, precious few people are Saved under these particular Ministries, whoever they might be.
  
  The reason should be obvious, what they are preaching is error and, in fact, a person cannot be Saved by believing that error. So they don't even try to get people to come to Christ.
  
  The truth is, many of the people in this doctrine, gave their hearts to Christ, and were truly Saved, before believing this particular fabrication. In fact, most people in the Word of Faith teaching have little or no understanding at all of the "Jesus died spiritually doctrine." As stated, they have already given their hearts and lives to Christ under other types of ministry. If the cover be pulled off this teaching, most have embraced its concepts, thinking that it is their avenue to riches. To be sure, there are riches involved, but it's only for a few of the preachers and not for the people at all.
  
  Regrettably, the "Jesus died spiritually doctrine" repudiates the Cross, referring to it as "past miseries," and "the worst defeat in human history." Many, if not most, of their Churches refuse to even sing songs about the Blood, about the Cross, about the great Sacrifice of Christ, concluding and claiming that such are "defeatist."
  
  All of that is strange when Paul said, "I, Brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the Testimony of God.
  
  "For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and Him Crucified" (I Cor. 2:1-2).
  
  If the Cross of Christ was the primary Message of the Apostle Paul, it had better be our primary Message as well!

JSM

Why are you posting materials by Jimmy Swaggart here, without attributing the material to him?

I think we deserve to know where the materials came from. I try to always quote the author when I post articles.

Did you know that he hired prostitutes?

I remember staying overnight at my cousin's house as a child...my aunt would blare his television show at full volume on Sunday mornings to wake everyone up for services.

I've often wondered what she thought about his dallying with prostitutes.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Why are you posting materials by Jimmy Swaggart here, without attributing the material to him?

I think we deserve to know where the materials came from. I try to always quote the author when I post articles.

Did you know that he hired prostitutes?

I remember staying overnight at my cousin's house as a child...my aunt would blare his television show at full volume on Sunday mornings to wake everyone up for services.

I've often wondered what she thought about his dallying with prostitutes.

JSM = Jimmy Swaggart Ministry

can you post your sins so we can judge you?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

JSM = Jimmy Swaggart Ministry

I think you avoided attributing this to him because you knew about his prostitution scandals.

A simple three letter acronym isn't an appropriate acknowledgement of the author.

By the way, folks, I often do a google search using a text string from a quote to determine who the author is, when someone does that. I figure there's something they are ashamed of. I suggest that you always check out who they are quoting if they don't name their source.

Quite often it ends up being Ellen G. White or some other kooky cultist.

In this case, it is a man who was defrocked by his denomination for hiring prostitutes. When he was question about it by his church, he told them, " the LORD told me it is none of your business."

He's one of the last persons I would quote as a source, nor would I regard his opinions as authoritative.

For instance, he scoffs at the idea that Jesus was forsaken on the Cross. He was forsaken for this time period, because he was paying the results of the Fall for all those who will receive the benefit of his atonement. It is one of several aspects of the Curse that he suffered on our behalf.

As for massorete who claims that Jesus' suffering didn't add anything to his salvation, he is plainly a biblical illiterate. No real Christian would say that. I won't even discuss anything with him further because he has proven himself unworthy of consideration. Someone should evangelize him, though. That's a massive error.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

I think you avoided attributing this to him because you knew about his prostitution scandals.

A simple three letter acronym isn't an appropriate acknowledgement of the author.

By the way, folks, I often do a google search using a text string from a quote to determine who the author is, when someone does that. I figure there's something they are ashamed of. I suggest that you always check out who they are quoting if they don't name their source.

Quite often it ends up being Ellen G. White or some other kooky cultist.

In this case, it is a man who was defrocked by his denomination for hiring prostitutes. When he was question about it by his church, he told them, " the LORD told me it is none of your business."

He's one of the last persons I would quote as a source, nor would I regard his opinions as authoritative.

For instance, he scoffs at the idea that Jesus was forsaken on the Cross. He was forsaken for this time period, because he was paying the results of the Fall for all those who will receive the benefit of his atonement. It is one of several aspects of the Curse that he suffered on our behalf.

As for massorete who claims that Jesus' suffering didn't add anything to his salvation, he is plainly a biblical illiterate. No real Christian would say that. I won't even discuss anything with him further because he has proven himself unworthy of consideration. Someone should evangelize him, though. That's a massive error.

I have cast you over to the Lord.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Seven LOOOONG posts? Waaaay TL; DR.

Many people's posts are that way. Honestly I dont mind reading 1 or 2 long posts but I usually just skim over it. I believe it is a wonderful talent when teaching especially on a chat site is to get straight to the point in less someone asks for further details.

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
-Albert Einstein

 

[Dino246]

Many people's posts are that way. Honestly I dont mind reading 1 or 2 long posts but I usually just skim over it. I believe it is a wonderful talent when teaching especially on a chat site is to get straight to the point in less someone asks for further details.

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
-Albert Einstein

For me it depends on the person. Some people's posts I will read regardless of the length, because I respect them. As for this particular case, MoTC has me on Ignore anyway, because I got in his face for preaching the "gospel" according to Jimmy Swaggart.

 

[MattforJesus]

Jesus did not suffer hell on the cross, and He did not even suffer hell when he went to conquer death and hell, for Jesus did not deserve to suffer for He is sinless.

Jesus only suffered according to His humanity on earth.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

For me it depends on the person. Some people's posts I will read regardless of the length, because I respect them. As for this particular case, MoTC has me on Ignore anyway, because I got in his face for preaching the "gospel" according to Jimmy Swaggart.

Yah your right. I find myself doing that too. I guess with some people after you have debated enough, it is nothing new being said.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I have cast you over to the Lord.

Thanks. It's a great place to be.