Did Moses and Elijah rise from dead before Christ?

[garee]

Your wrong about that. His soul and body did in fact seperate because scripture says that flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Which means at some point between Heaven and Earth his body changed from corruptable to incorruptable.

It did not change. The father used human form like that of Melchedik in a vision or a dream . Moses' body and Elijah long gone.

Moses to represent the letter of the law death .was not allowed in the promised land. A parable to help us understand the law that kill. It will not be part of the new order.

The Father was simply protecting the integrity of sola scriptura .All things written in the law and the prophets. Therefore using Moses the law giver (death) and Elijah to represent the prophets (the law of faith) together making a perfect law as his witness to us. The just (Moses the letter). and the justifier the prophets typified b Elijah .

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

The same two witnesses of God used in Revelation that will be silenced for a short period .

The same two witnesses that protected the integrity of the work Moses and Elijah the parable of Luke 16.

In that parable (Luke 16) of "two teaching masters". Unbelief is displayed as those who seek after the dead .Like with Catholisicim(3500 patron saints. ) necromancy.

No matter how many times Jesus corrected him he walked away in unbelief. (no faith) He would be like Peter who struggled to walk by faith as a claim of fame said : Build a shrine . Hoping looking that corrupted flesh and blood could profit for something.

Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luke 16: 27-31

Faith comes by hearing the understanding of God. not literally seeing .No faith needed to see. Then the reward is seen . .No living hope (faith)

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luke 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

The two witnesses Moses and the prophets

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

 

[Dino246]

It did not change. The father used human form like that of Melchedik in a vision or a dream . Moses' body and Elijah long gone.

Nothing that you have written supports your assertion that "It did not change".

In that parable (Luke 16) of "two teaching masters". ...
Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luke 16: 27-31

That passage says nothing at all about "two teaching masters". You mixed up the latter part of Luke 16 with the earlier part and added a few of your own words. I have addressed the previously but, as usual, you have ignored the correction and blundered on in your ignorance and error.

 

[miknik5]

Did Moses and Elijah rise from dead before the resurrection of Christ?
They appeared to Jesus and talked with Him.

Matthew 17:3: And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
Mark 9:4: And Elijah appeared to them along with Moses; and they were talking with Jesus.
Luke 9:30: And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah,

Moses died...physically
Elijah and Enoch did not die physically.

If you want to view it in a fleshly way, all these were incomplete...not having died and rise from the dead, they are not the FIRSTBORN from the dead.

Remember, CHRIST had to fill all things, HE had to descend so as to ascend...to be above and before all things created so as to have the preeminence over all things created.

So no...Moses and Elijah were not the first to rise from the dead...but they certainly will rise in the RESURRECTION with all those who belong to CHRIST....

 

[tantalon]

Did Moses and Elijah rise from dead before the resurrection of Christ?
They appeared to Jesus and talked with Him.

Matthew 17:3: And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
Mark 9:4: And Elijah appeared to them along with Moses; and they were talking with Jesus.
Luke 9:30: And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah,

 

[tantalon]

On the mount of transfiguration it is recorded as a vision. The BODIES of Moses and Elijah were, and still are in their graves.

 

[Diakonos]

The Glory that the apostles saw was described as the glory that came with Jesus when He Incarnated.

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

"As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead" -Matthew 17:9

The (παρουσία-parousia) "Arrival/Coming" is mentioned 24 times in the N.T.
Every occasion in relation to Jesus, it is ALWAYS referring to His 2nd coming.
That being said...." (παρουσία)
"For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, “This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased”—and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain"

From these 2 verse we derive that It was a vision of the second coming of Jesus.

 

[Diakonos]

Notice the Kingdom is now before the resurrection on the last day. While David remains buried.

In Jeremiah 30:3-10, he describes the events of the day of the Lord. vs 9 says "they shall serve the LORD their God, And David their king, whom I will raise up for them". This is before the last day.

Also, Ezekiel 37:21-25 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. … (24-25) “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their ruler forever."

Also, Hos 3:4-5 "For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days."

David will be resurrected and ruling before the last day.

 

[Dave-L]

In Jeremiah 30:3-10, he describes the events of the day of the Lord. vs 9 says "they shall serve the LORD their God, And David their king, whom I will raise up for them". This is before the last day.

Also, Ezekiel 37:21-25 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. … (24-25) “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their ruler forever."

Also, Hos 3:4-5 "For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days."

David will be resurrected and ruling before the last day.

The Church is the Children of Israel. It's happening now since Christ first arrived.

 

[Diakonos]

The Church is the Children of Israel. It's happening now since Christ first arrived.

The fact remains that David will be alive and ruling from Jerusalem before the last day

 

[tantalon]

"As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead" -Matthew 17:9

The (παρουσία-parousia) "Arrival/Coming" is mentioned 24 times in the N.T.
Every occasion in relation to Jesus, it is ALWAYS referring to His 2nd coming.
That being said...." (παρουσία)
"For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, “This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased”—and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain"

From these 2 verse we derive that It was a vision of the second coming of Jesus.

 

[miknik5]

The Church is the Children of Israel. It's happening now since Christ first arrived.

Since CHRIST first arrived? No, it happened afterwards, after HIS crucifixion and resurrection, sir....After and by and through THE DOOR/VEIL which HE opened unto the HOUSE...that is when THE CHURCH became THE HOUSE of GOD being built up in THE BODY of THE SON sir...

 

[tantalon]

Within the vision, seen of the apostles, was the IDENITY of who the man, Jesus Christ, really was. The verse "For we did not follow cleverly devised...2 Peter 1:16. is not part of the original context, but is given here in 2 Peter as an completed overview in an epistle, much later, and after the fulfilled resurrection. There is no mention of his COMING on the mount, but rather who he was, and that God was well pleased with him. A second coming of Christ is portrayed in 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-10 and gives the details of a more completed nature and context.

 

[miknik5]

Tear down this temple, and I will raise it up in three days.

What HE meant by these words...were...literally...what HE meant

 

[garee]

Nothing that you have written supports your assertion that "It did not change".


That passage says nothing at all about "two teaching masters". You mixed up the latter part of Luke 16 with the earlier part and added a few of your own words. I have addressed the previously but, as usual, you have ignored the correction and blundered on in your ignorance and error.

My assertion that "what" did not change?

I have not ignored your offerings.

Its the best title I could come up for that parable. What would you call it .Seeing the subject is maintaining the integrity of His word as it is written throughout that chapter . . . . . . . one continuous parable. .

 

[Ahwatukee]

Did Moses and Elijah rise from dead before the resurrection of Christ?
They appeared to Jesus and talked with Him.

Matthew 17:3: And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
Mark 9:4: And Elijah appeared to them along with Moses; and they were talking with Jesus.
Luke 9:30: And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah,

Greetings User46952!

In answer to your Biblical question, a Biblical answer:

No one has ever gone into heaven (Resurrected) except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

Next is the church, then the male child/144,000, then the two witnesses

 

[Diakonos]

Within the vision, seen of the apostles, was the IDENITY of who the man, Jesus Christ, really was. The verse "For we did not follow cleverly devised...2 Peter 1:16. is not part of the original context, but is given here in 2 Peter as an completed overview in an epistle, much later, and after the fulfilled resurrection. There is no mention of his COMING on the mount, but rather who he was, and that God was well pleased with him. A second coming of Christ is portrayed in 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-10 and gives the details of a more completed nature and context.

I'm glad we agree that it was a vision, from there we can move on.

The (παρουσία-parousia) "Arrival/Coming" is mentioned 24 times in the N.T.
Every occasion in relation to Jesus, it is ALWAYS referring to His 2nd coming.


The "coming/arrival" in 2 Peter 1:16 fits the context of the entire Bible's usage of the word in relation to Jesus's 2nd coming.

It also fits the context of the letter:
Apocalyptic eschatology is central to 2 Peter, since the false teachers reject the return of Christ and final judgment, instead teaching a steady-state universe (3:4). The argument is in six parts. First, in chapter 1 the expectation of Jesus’ glorious return is based upon the apostolic testimony to a proleptic glorification of Jesus in the transfiguration (1:16–18), which confirms previous prophetic announcements.
The context is further confirmed by by the following verse: "So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place.." (vs 19)

 

[Dino246]

My assertion that "what" did not change?

That makes no sense.

I have not ignored your offerings.

Perhaps, but you haven't demonstrated that you've learned anything from them either.

Its the best title I could come up for that parable. What would you call it .Seeing the subject is maintaining the integrity of His word as it is written throughout that chapter . . . . . . . one continuous parable. .

The chapter is not one continuous parable.

 

[Diakonos]

In that parable (Luke 16)

The chapter is not one continuous parable.

@Dino246 is correct here.
1. Neither Luke nor Jesus said that it was a parable.
2. Jesus never names people in parables.
3.This literal account is consistent with the entire doctrine of Sheol.

 

[garee]

I'm glad we agree that it was a vision, from there we can move on.

The (παρουσία-parousia) "Arrival/Coming" is mentioned 24 times in the N.T.
Every occasion in relation to Jesus, it is ALWAYS referring to His 2nd coming.

View attachment 214912
The "coming/arrival" in 2 Peter 1:16 fits the context of the entire Bible's usage of the word in relation to Jesus's 2nd coming.

It also fits the context of the letter:
Apocalyptic eschatology is central to 2 Peter, since the false teachers reject the return of Christ and final judgment, instead teaching a steady-state universe (3:4). The argument is in six parts. First, in chapter 1 the expectation of Jesus’ glorious return is based upon the apostolic testimony to a proleptic glorification of Jesus in the transfiguration (1:16–18), which confirms previous prophetic announcements.
The context is further confirmed by by the following verse: "So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place.." (vs 19)

Those coming verses you offered support walking by faith after the unseen. . . not by sight after the temporal .The kingdom does not come by what the eyes see the temporal It comes by hearing God as he works in a parson to make it possible

The holy Spirit came at Pentecost. His power was limited by the Son of man . Jesus said if he leaves not the comforter will not come .Today seeing he has come he lives in theses earthen bodies of death .The power is not of us.

When he came it was a "great Jubilation" for all the nations of the world a savoir they hoped could save them from sin practices .A "great tribulation" for the Jew who lost a face by which the father of lies could deceive the nations. The smell of life and the smell of death

Satan fell from that lie that God was only a God of the Jew flesh and bound in a bottom less pit (no end) not any more to deceive all the nations after that manner. .

We are still experiences the effect of the great jubilation and tribulation to those who hope to identify themselves as God 's people after the flesh. The gospel is highly needed in that commonality .A period of time like never before or ever again . . . .the last days.

 

[garee]

That makes no sense.


Perhaps, but you haven't demonstrated that you've learned anything from them either.


The chapter is not one continuous parable.

You said; "Nothing that you have written supports your assertion that "It did not change".

What did not change? flesh and blood?

Not continuous. How many?