Did the medium bring up Samuel or a demon? 1 Sam 28

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L

Laodicea

Guest
#61
#61
RachelBibleStudent said:
nobody is saying saul did the right thing...or that we should imitate him...but what he did resulted in the appearance of samuel and a true prophecy...
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So from a corrupt tree came good fruit?
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#63
#63
RickShafer said:
No....From Abraham's bosom came Samuel.

Miracles are a forgone conclusion concerning God.
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What about Abel when he died did he go to Abraham's bosom as well?
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#64
Sep 8, 2012
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#64
Laodicea said:
What about Abel when he died did he go to Abraham's bosom as well?
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If this is about his blood crying out from the ground, yes it did and yes his soul did, (go to Abraham's bosom).
Two entirely different things: - The life of the body(which is in the blood) was spilled and sought remedy, but the soul of a righteous man ('righteous Abel') ascended to Abraham's Bosom.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#65
#65
RickShafer said:
If this is about his blood crying out from the ground, yes it did and yes his soul did, (go to Abraham's bosom).
Two entirely different things: - The life of the body(which is in the blood) was spilled and sought remedy, but the soul of a righteous man ('righteous Abel') ascended to Abraham's Bosom.
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This shows how silly your teaching is. Abraham must have a large bosom and it must be under the earth somewhere. Also Abraham's bosom existed before he was born. You are just basing your doctrine on your opinion.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#66
Sep 8, 2012
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#66
Laodicea said:
This shows how silly your teaching is. Abraham must have a large bosom and it must be under the earth somewhere. Also Abraham's bosom existed before he was born. You are just basing your doctrine on your opinion.
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Well, with a post like that silliness is relative.

Abraham's Bosom is the name of paradise, - - the place where people who served God before the resurrection went.
They couldn't go to heaven because Jesus had not payed their ransom yet. - And as you know He is the "first fruits of righteousness", and "no man can come to the Father except through Him".

It was probably called 'Abraham's Bosom' because he was the father of faith.
 
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L

Laodicea

Guest
#67
#67
RickShafer said:
Well, with a post like that silliness is relative.

Abraham's Bosom is the name of paradise, - - the place where people who served God before the resurrection.
They couldn't go to heaven because Jesus had not payed their ransom yet. - And as you know He is the "first fruits of righteousness", and no man can come to the Father except through Him.

It was probably called 'Abraham's Bosom' because he was the father of faith.
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Relative to what? Paradise according to the Bible is not under the ground but, where the tree of life is which is in heaven.
(Luke 23:43 KJV)
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

(2 Corinthians 12:4 KJV)
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

(Revelation 2:7 KJV)
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

(Revelation 22:2 KJV)
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

(Revelation 22:14 KJV)
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

These texts are saying that paradise is where the tree of life is which is in heaven.
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#68
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
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#68
Laodicea said:
So from a corrupt tree came good fruit?
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No, God ordered it so for His own glory. Since God Himself is the one that caused Samuel to appear, and not the medium or Satan, there is no corrupt tree.

The woman was quite surprised to see Samuel, instead of the spirit that she was used to seeing.

God is the one who chose Saul to be king. And it is God who decided to answer Saul in this way. Why? That is God's business. But you should not let your own lack of discernment get in the way of the clear meaning of Scripture.

 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#69
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
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#69
Michael50 said:
One thing is certain. As we near the end of the Age, there will be 2 groups of people. Those who believe the dead are alive and those who do not.

Satan will easily decieve all who believe that the dead are alive.

How could anybody be sure they are not being told lies by a demon? I will tell you how,,, by believing the Scripture, that the dead cannot communicate with the living. That the dead know nothing. When you reason to yourself that the dead are alive, Satan already knows that you are subject to all sorts of lies and deceptions. You have no chance. The scripture is our only safeguard to Satans deceptions. When you dismiss the Scripture, your safeguard is no more.

Dead people are not aware of what is going on. But the demon that masqeraded as Samuel had all sorts of knowledge. Like I said, you have to dismiss a whole bunch of scriptures to get a dead person to communicate with.

The belief that the dead are alive is a most dangerous belief. Millions will lose Eternal life because they have dismissed the Bible over this issue.
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The Scriptures are unprofitable for you because you do not rightly discern the meaning of them.

Perhaps you should trust God, instead of holding so tightly to the love of your traditions.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#70
#70
superdave5221 said:
No, God ordered it so for His own glory. Since God Himself is the one that caused Samuel to appear, and not the medium or Satan, there is no corrupt tree.

The woman was quite surprised to see Samuel, instead of the spirit that she was used to seeing.

God is the one who chose Saul to be king. And it is God who decided to answer Saul in this way. Why? That is God's business. But you should not let your own lack of discernment get in the way of the clear meaning of Scripture.
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Clear meaning of scripture tells me it was not Samuel.
 
stefen

stefen

Senior Member
#71
Jun 14, 2013
105
5
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#71
Its Samuel only.. Before Jesus was risen from dead, all dead were controlled by satan. Its a solved question with lots of conveyable references from Bible.

Thanks.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#72
#72
stefen said:
Its Samuel only.. Before Jesus was risen from dead, all dead were controlled by satan. Its a solved question with lots of conveyable references from Bible.

Thanks.
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Where does the Bible say that Satan controlled all the dead?
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#73
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
0
#73
Laodicea said:
Relative to what? Paradise according to the Bible is not under the ground but, where the tree of life is which is in heaven.
(Luke 23:43 KJV)
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

(2 Corinthians 12:4 KJV)
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

(Revelation 2:7 KJV)
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

(Revelation 22:2 KJV)
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

(Revelation 22:14 KJV)
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

These texts are saying that paradise is where the tree of life is which is in heaven.
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Some are.
The first is a direct reference to Jesus and the thief meeting in paradise before His resurrection. -
When he led captivity captive.
The second is Paul telling how he was caught up into paradise. (Heaven?)
The last two references don't have the term included.
The third is obviously Heaven. - Now, the term 'paradise' can apply to more than one place right?
There are many places on earth that can be described as 'paradise'.

I don't see the hubbub bub.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#74
#74
RickShafer said:
Some are.
The first is a direct reference to Jesus and the thief meeting in paradise before His resurrection. -
When he led captivity captive.
The second is Paul telling how he was caught up into paradise. (Heaven?)
The last two references don't have the term included.
The third is obviously Heaven. - Now, the term 'paradise' can apply to more than one place right?
There are many places on earth that can be described as 'paradise'.

I don't see the hubbub bub.
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Show me a text that clearly says paradise is something other than heaven. Revelation 2:7 has both the tree of life and paradise, showing paradise is where the tree of life is. The last two references show the tree of life is in heaven. So putting all the texts together paradise is in heaven to say otherwise is to use your own opinion.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#75
Sep 8, 2012
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#75
Laodicea said:
Show me a text that clearly says paradise is something other than heaven. Revelation 2:7 has both the tree of life and paradise, showing paradise is where the tree of life is. The last two references show the tree of life is in heaven. So putting all the texts together paradise is in heaven to say otherwise is to use your own opinion.
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Luke 16:22 (KJV) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
 
S

Shiloah

Guest
#76
#76
1still_waters said:
Did the medium in this portion of scripture really bring up Samuel or was it a demon?

Verse 12 seems to indicate it was really Samuel.

The one giving the description of what was seen is a Holy Spirit inspired writer.
Right?

So if the Holy Spirit inspired writer says she saw Samuel, then she saw Samuel?
Right?

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then the woman said to him, “Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?”
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And Saul swore to her by the Lord, saying, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.”
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”
And he said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”
[SUP]12 [/SUP]When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, “Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!”
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?”
And the woman said to Saul, “I saw a spirit[SUP][a][/SUP] ascending out of the earth.”
[SUP]14 [/SUP]So he said to her, “What is his form?”
And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it wasSamuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Now Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
And Saul answered, “I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do.”
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then Samuel said: “So why do you ask me, seeing the Lord has departed from you and has become your enemy? [SUP]17 [/SUP]And the Lord has done for Himself[SUP][b][/SUP] as He spoke by me. For the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.”
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The witch of Endor was a Holy Spirit inspired woman? I hardly think so. And Saul asked her what she saw. He couldn't see it. The witch of Endor is the one who said it was an old man coming out of the ground that she saw. So "Samuel's" sighting was based on a witches observation alone. By the way, how did this woman know it was Samuel? Did she know Samuel personally?
 
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FIRE_of_ELIJAH

FIRE_of_ELIJAH

Senior Member
#77
Feb 5, 2013
387
19
18
#77
It was not the real samuel. It was a replica of samuel done by a demon through sorcery.

The writer was just telling exactly what the witch saw but was not stating if it's really the prophet samuel. The witch has been fooled into believing that it's really samuel...that we know for a fact that it was a demon who copied samuel.

If you ask me...why was it able to foretold the fate of king saul if it's not the real samuel? good question !! The answer- Demons can foretold toward the lives of unbelievers but never to believers. A fortune teller is able to foretold unbelievers but never to any born again christians. King saul was a backslider who's no more different than unbelievers...the reason why his death has already been predicted by a demon who copied samuel.

There's NO power on earth or any demonic beings or in the heavenly or witches or any sort of nonsense witchcraft that can control the life beyond the grave !!! There's no one BUT JESUS !!!

BEAR THAT ON YOUR MIND !!!
 
M

Michael50

Banned
#78
May 24, 2013
682
10
0
#78
RickShafer said:
Well, with a post like that silliness is relative.

Abraham's Bosom is the name of paradise, - - the place where people who served God before the resurrection went.
They couldn't go to heaven because Jesus had not payed their ransom yet. - And as you know He is the "first fruits of righteousness", and "no man can come to the Father except through Him".

It was probably called 'Abraham's Bosom' because he was the father of faith.
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The rich man and Lazarus is a parable,,, lol,, and you somehow believe it's a real story, about real people and real places...

Are you really so silly that you somehow believe that this actually happened:

"Then he cried and sain, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."

Is Abraham the one folks cry out to? Does Abraham run the fires of Hell?
By the way, the bible says the lake of fire is reserved for the wicked at the end of the age. lol

Do all the good people go to Abraham and sit on his chest? (Bosom)

Im utterly amazed at how many people think the Parable of the Rich man and Lazarus is a True Story. It's actually sad.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#79
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
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#79
Michael50 said:
The rich man and Lazarus is a parable,,, lol,, and you somehow believe it's a real story, about real people and real places...

Are you really so silly that you somehow believe that this actually happened:

"Then he cried and sain, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."

Is Abraham the one folks cry out to? Does Abraham run the fires of Hell?
By the way, the bible says the lake of fire is reserved for the wicked at the end of the age. lol

Do all the good people go to Abraham and sit on his chest? (Bosom)

Im utterly amazed at how many people think the Parable of the Rich man and Lazarus is a True Story. It's actually sad.
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What is sad is that you think Jesus would make up a story.

F.Y.I. - Parables are spiritual truths given in story form.
Such as: the four types of seeds, (notice how He didn't name them)?

But Jesus gave not only names, but the number of brothers the rich man had.
- What's amazing to me is how you think a perfect person can lie.
- - And one who was careful to fulfill all righteousness no less!
- - - Show one other 'parable' where Jesus used names? - (YOU CAN'T)


Amazing,..........simply amazing.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#80
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
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#80
Shiloah said:
The witch of Endor was a Holy Spirit inspired woman? I hardly think so. And Saul asked her what she saw. He couldn't see it. The witch of Endor is the one who said it was an old man coming out of the ground that she saw. So "Samuel's" sighting was based on a witches observation alone. By the way, how did this woman know it was Samuel? Did she know Samuel personally?
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Notice how surprised she was?
Notice how she immediately knew who Saul was?
She was expecting one of her familiar spirits, and she got something completely different, that's why she was so surprised and knew the truth instantly of who was inquiring of her.
She immediately saw the truth on both accounts which demons don't do.
What?
You say only a spirit filled being can see things as they happen in the spirit?
- Then explain Balaam's ass.
- -I guess it was a 'spirit filled' ass.
 
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