Discussion on the End Times

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Keras

Active member
Aug 9, 2020
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#1
Recently I talked with two pastors, both graduates of American seminaries. They are both dedicated men, who have come out of their own culture to work overseas with the local and expatriate people.

Question: We see some of your writings on Bible prophecy and end times events. Explain to us what you think is going to happen.

Keraz: There are five prophecies that specify the Negev desert as the focus of a terrible event that will cause destruction over virtually the entire Middle East (1)

Nothing to match it has occurred in the past, and seeing the current political situation, we can now see how this may take place.

Iran will attempt to deliver a nuclear weapon to destroy Israel’s nuclear plant at Dimona, in the Negev. (2) Also they will target Israel’s cities, excepting for Jerusalem.

This action will bring forth the wrath of the Lord. (3) The Jewish State of Israel, too will be destroyed and its current inhabitants killed or displaced. (4)

The Lord will use this event to carry out His judgement against the nations, including Judah. (5) It will be the Day, mentioned many times in the Bible, as the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, (6) and will be the Sixth Seal judgement/punishment of the nations. (7)

After a period of time, perhaps only a few months, the Lord will call His people, all the righteous Christians from every tribe, race, nation and language, to gather and enter all of the holy Land. As the new nation of Beulah , where He will bless them with prosperity and peace. (8) They will rebuild the Temple, as described in Ezekiel 40-36, and send out 144,000 missionaries to preach the coming Kingdom of God. (9)

Later, a Northern confederation of nations will be motivated to attack Beulah; But the Lord will totally destroy them. (10)

Also, after the worldwide devastation of the Lord’s terrible Day of fiery wrath, the surviving world leaders will decide to form a one world government, which will soon be taken over by a powerful and charismatic dictator. Later, he will sign a seven year peace and security agreement with God’s people , but after 3½ years, he will break that treaty and invade Beulah. This will begin the Tribulation (11) and after the final 3½ years of this age, the Lord Jesus will return and commence His Millennium reign. (12)



Pastors reply: Yes, we live in a dark and fallen world. Jesus came because of this sin. He believed in a Day of judgement for this evil world. When Jesus went to the Cross, He said ‘Now is the judgement for this world”. John 12:31 He understood the Cross to be the Day of Judgement. Note that the sky was darkened and the earth shaken then.

This is the basis for the substitutionary death of Christ and this is how the Old Testament prophecies have been fulfilled by Him. The whole point of Jesus coming to the earth was to take God’s wrath upon the Cross. The Cross and the hope of our resurrection is what the Christian faith is all about.

Keraz: I think that it’s sad that you don’t consider prophecy as worthy of study.

In 2 Peter 1:19, he says that we do well to attend to the prophets, and in Revelation 1:3 a blessing is given to those who ‘take to heart’ what is written there.

Final fulfilment of God’s judgement must still wait for the end times, as Paul says in Hebrews 10:27 and Peter in 2 Peter 3:10.

References;

(1) Ezekiel 20:46, Ezekiel 21:4, Isaiah 9:18-19, Jeremiah 13:19-21, Jeremiah 21:14.

(2) Isaiah 21:2, Isaiah 22:6.

(3) Ezekiel 7:14, Psalms 7:12-16, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Judah- Zechariah 13:8-9, Iran- Jeremiah 49:34-39, Syria- Isaiah 17:1-4, Palestinians- Ezekiel 25:15-17, Arabia- Jeremiah 49:28-39, Jordan- Ezekiel 25:1-11, Egypt- Isaiah 19:1-15.

(4) Jeremiah 12:14, Obadiah 12-16, Zephaniah 1:1-18, Jeremiah 8:5-12.

(5) Amos 1:1-18 & 2:1-5, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7

(6) Isaiah 63:1-6, Isaiah 33:10-12, Jeremiah 30:23-24, Malachi 4:1-3, Zechariah 9:13-15.

(7) Habakkuk 3:12, Revelation 6: 12-17, Revelation 14:18-20

(8) Isaiah 62:1-5. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Jeremiah 32:37-43, Isaiah 14:1, Psalms 69:36

(9) Revelation 7:3-8, Revelation 14:1-7, Isaiah 66:19.

(10) Ezekiel chapters 38 &39, Joel 2:20.

(11) Daniel 12:1, Matthew 24:21-22, Revelation 8 to 19:11

(12) Revelation 20:4-6, Hosea 6:2, Luke 13:32
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
616
102
43
#2
Question: We see some of your writings on Bible prophecy and end times events. Explain to us what you think is going to happen.
Mankind will develop into one social body under one government authority and shall do on earth as it is done in heaven,

Keraz: I think that it’s sad that you don’t consider prophecy as worthy of study.
Don't be sad, if a prophesy isn't worth receiving then what would be the purpose in studying them? After all, a prophesy is the word that the LORD gives to a prophet to tell his people something, do you think that something is going to be the truth? So what is written in the Bible about receiving the truth, Buy the truth? Do you think that a sower is a person who sows seed is anything but saying the same thing in a different way?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
16,659
1,490
113
#3
You know in december of last year I was in the car with my sister looking at the night sky as the sun was almost gone and felt in my spirit a heavy sense of warning not fear but warning and I said out lout something terrible is coming a storm wqe have never seen before, I said that a sickness had invaded the land and that it would bring forth the destruction and be the trigger of many events.
I had no idea what I was saying and had not ever heard of this virus before and just as I said all this happened and at the start of the year I began recieving things in a deeper level the spirit stirred inside I felt an awakening of some kind it was something I never experienced before and all through out this year I have been recieving things I never did before from him my poems even took a drastic turn from encouraging and uplifting to a prophetic kind even when I had no clue what I was writing he has been leading me into waters I have never traversed and though I have always studied bible prophecy and always been watching and waiting only in this year have I felt a sense of how close both thwe rapture and the tribulation is like dangerously close

Not just me either I have spoken with many others who have experienced all this in this year in particular God is speaking to us and through us and will fall on deaf ears as well as those that it speaks to and the spirit agrees, more than ever we need to study and understand prophecy and wwhen he leads us to speak even if we know we will be attacked for it we need to speak because time is that short and if people do not listen and do not pay attention to the signs they will miss it
 

Keras

Active member
Aug 9, 2020
139
28
28
#4
It is amazing to think that we are now, at the very edge of the end of this age. Soon we will experience the fulfilment of many prophesies. The ancient prophets spoke of how all the Lord’s people; Israelites of God, faithful Christians from every race, nation and language, will go to live in their heritage. Ezekiel 37:21 ...I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they now live. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own Land.

This Second Exodus began in 1948, with the return of part of the Southern Kingdom of Judah into part of the Land. Now we are seeing the world turning against the State of Israel and the emergence of an Islamic confederation, that is busily preparing for an attack to: “erase all remembrance of them”. Then the Lord will act once again in His creation, to fulfil the rest of Psalm 83, Habakkuk 3:12-14, Revelation 6:12-17 and many other Bible passages. This clearance of the “evil neighbors” as described in Jeremiah 12:14-17, will allow every faithful Christian Israelite of God, Galatians 3:26-29 to join the remnant of their brethren in all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 50:4-5



When will this happen? Just this question causes some Christians to quickly say; But of that Day and hour no man knows.” Those who seek clues from the Word are often criticized and told to focus on evangelism, and not to be concerned when the Lord will Return. This shows their lack of Bible knowledge, as the actual Return will be known to the day, when certain events take place preceding it. It is the Great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, that will take the world unawares. The doubters may mention the verses that say this event will come “as a thief” . Again, those people do not read scripture carefully, as Paul says; “But you, my friends, are not in the dark, that this Day should surprise you”.

Jesus exhorted; Revelation 3:3b If you do not wake up, I will come upon you like a thief... The Return will not be unexpected. This verse and all the ones about the Lord coming; refer to the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath, some time before the Return in glory.

Jesus rebuked: Matthew 16:3 You hypocrites, you can interpret the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of your times.

Jesus will judge: Luke 3:16-17....He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork in His hand, to clear His threshing floor and gather the wheat, but the chaff, He will burn up.

Jesus promised: Luke 21:28 When all these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. John 15:15-17 I no longer call you servants, now I call you My friends, I have made known all that I have learned from My Father. You did not choose Me, but I chose you, that you would bear fruit. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in My Name. This is My command; love one another.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
16,659
1,490
113
#5
It is amazing to think that we are now, at the very edge of the end of this age. Soon we will experience the fulfilment of many prophesies. The ancient prophets spoke of how all the Lord’s people; Israelites of God, faithful Christians from every race, nation and language, will go to live in their heritage. Ezekiel 37:21 ...I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they now live. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own Land.

This Second Exodus began in 1948, with the return of part of the Southern Kingdom of Judah into part of the Land. Now we are seeing the world turning against the State of Israel and the emergence of an Islamic confederation, that is busily preparing for an attack to: “erase all remembrance of them”. Then the Lord will act once again in His creation, to fulfil the rest of Psalm 83, Habakkuk 3:12-14, Revelation 6:12-17 and many other Bible passages. This clearance of the “evil neighbors” as described in Jeremiah 12:14-17, will allow every faithful Christian Israelite of God, Galatians 3:26-29 to join the remnant of their brethren in all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 50:4-5



When will this happen? Just this question causes some Christians to quickly say; But of that Day and hour no man knows.” Those who seek clues from the Word are often criticized and told to focus on evangelism, and not to be concerned when the Lord will Return. This shows their lack of Bible knowledge, as the actual Return will be known to the day, when certain events take place preceding it. It is the Great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, that will take the world unawares. The doubters may mention the verses that say this event will come “as a thief” . Again, those people do not read scripture carefully, as Paul says; “But you, my friends, are not in the dark, that this Day should surprise you”.

Jesus exhorted; Revelation 3:3b If you do not wake up, I will come upon you like a thief... The Return will not be unexpected. This verse and all the ones about the Lord coming; refer to the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath, some time before the Return in glory.

Jesus rebuked: Matthew 16:3 You hypocrites, you can interpret the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of your times.

Jesus will judge: Luke 3:16-17....He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork in His hand, to clear His threshing floor and gather the wheat, but the chaff, He will burn up.

Jesus promised: Luke 21:28 When all these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. John 15:15-17 I no longer call you servants, now I call you My friends, I have made known all that I have learned from My Father. You did not choose Me, but I chose you, that you would bear fruit. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in My Name. This is My command; love one another.
Yeah it really is amazing it kind of makes me glad I was born when I was, people use the verse no man knows the day or hour but you also have to consider no one knew the day or hour Jesus would be born either however only the three wise men understood the sign to look for and they were not caught off guard.
What is the point of studying bible prophecy if you don't heed the signs it teaches?
 

Keras

Active member
Aug 9, 2020
139
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#6
I will give the Land to new owners:

Zephaniah 3:1-8 Woe to the place of oppression, filthy and defiled, they heed no warning voice and ignore God’s rebukes. They won’t take correction or place their trust in their Creator. Their leaders have no concern for the people and prophet and priest alike profane the Holy Scriptures.

The people who ‘won’t take correction and trust their Creator’, is the Jewish State of Israel.



The Lord has judged and punished them before, their land laid waste and the towns deserted and He thought: surely now they will fear Me and will accept instruction, but they continue on in their evil deeds and they show no shame for it.

Judah has been punished and exiled before; by Babylon and by Rome. But as Ezekiel 21:14 tells us, there will be a third time.



Therefore: look out for Me, for the Day when I will stand up to witness against you, on the Day that I execute justice upon the nations, for I will pour out My fierce anger and the whole earth will be enveloped by the fire of My wrath.

This will be the great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and fiery wrath against the nations. Prophesied in the Bible over 100 times. Habakkuk 3:12 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17, +



Zephaniah 3:11-13 On that Day, Jerusalem, I shall wipe away your shame for all the transgressions committed in you, for I shall remove all your proud and arrogant citizens, only the humble and peaceful people will remain and those who never practise evil or speak lies, they will settle in the Land and nothing will disturb them.

This is the great Second Exodus of all of God’s people into all of the holy Land. Every faithful Christian: a vast multitude from every tribe, race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Romans 9:24=26, Revelation 7:9 and the amazing stories in Psalms 107.



Zephaniah 3:9-10 They will all know a pure language, so everyone will know the true Name of the Lord and will praise Him with one accord. My worshippers, all the righteous people will come from afar to worship the Lord and bring offerings to Him. People from every race, nation and language, all the born again Christian people, will travel there to live, in the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, while the rest of the world is ruled by a One World Government. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 17:12



Zephaniah 3:14-17 Daughter of Jerusalem; sing for joy! For the Lord has taken away your punishments and has cast out your enemies. Now the Lord is with you and you need never again fear disaster.

On the Day of the Lord’s wrath; This is the message for My people: Fear not, stand firm in your faith, your God will keep you safe and will rejoice over you.

Ref: REB, CJB, KJV. Some verses condensed and paraphrased.



This chapter of Zephaniah encapsulates the soon to happen end times story.

It tells how Jerusalem, the holy Land is denigrated by its ungodly inhabitants and will rejoice when they are gone. How those enemies of the Lord, the evil neighbors, Jeremiah 12:14, and all who reject the Salvation of Jesus, will be uprooted and gone, then the holy Land resettled by the Lord’s faithful believers. Ezekiel 34:11-31 tells it plainly.



Jeremiah 7:30-34 & 8:1-13 The people of Judah have done wrong, they worship idols and have no regard for their Creator....Therefore, the time is coming when I shall fill the valley of Topeth with their corpses.......All the survivors of this wicked race, from wherever I have banished them, would rather die than live. Isaiah 22:14

...Judah is incurable in their waywardness......I listen, but I hear not one word of remorse ....My people do not know the Judgements of the Lord. How can you say: We are wise and we have the Law of God, when your scribes and priests have falsified it? The wise are shamed and where is wisdom in them?

Therefore I will give their wives to others and give their land to new owners, for all of their prophets and priests are frauds....on My Day of reckoning, they will fall with a great crash. I shall surely consume them says the Lord and there will be no grapes on the vine, [Israel] and no figs on the fig tree. [Judah]



We Christians are told by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:4-5, that we should know God’s plans for what will happen in the near future. Zephaniah 3 gives it to us, confirmed by the sequence of Revelation chapters 6-7.

What is presented to you in these scriptures, is God’s Promises to His faithful people, His blessings of peace and prosperity, of joy and happiness, of security and long life, as all who love Him and keep the Commandments; will live in His Land.

It is the prophetic parallel of ancient Israel, where Jesus led the people through the desert and how most of them refused to accept the Promise. 1 Corinthians 10:6-13

Ezekiel 20:34-38 tells how, once again, some of His people will revolt and rebel and they will not be allowed to enter the Land of Israel.



In today’s situation, we have many who have accepted the Gospel, but who have chosen their own beliefs about what God intends to do for His people and during this forthcoming test, 1 Peter 4:12, they may fail to stand firm in their trust that the Lord will protect them. This won’t lose their salvation, but it will be a serious disadvantage, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

The great chapter of Isaiah 35:1-10, is one of the many prophesies that describe the Lord’s faithful Christian people entering the holy Land, says: ...no one unclean will go there....The Lord’s people, set free: will enter Zion with shouts of triumph. As per Psalms 107

Ref: logostelos.info
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,638
5,618
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#7
After a period of time, perhaps only a few months, the Lord will call His people, all the righteous Christians from every tribe, race, nation and language, to gather and enter all of the holy Land.
The Bible makes it crystal clear that the eternal home of the Church is the heavenly New Jerusalem. Not the land of Israel, which is reserved exclusively for the 12 tribes of Jacob.

EZEKIEL 48: GREATER ISRAEL UNDER CHRIST ALLOTTED TO THE TWELVE TRIBES

1 Now these are the names of the tribes... a portion for Dan.

2...a portion for Asher.

3 ...a portion for Naphtali.

4...a portion for Manasseh.

5...a portion for Ephraim.

6... a portion for Reuben.

7...a portion for Judah.

23 As for the rest of the tribes, from the east side unto the west side, Benjamin shall have a portion.

24...Simeon shall have a portion.

25...Issachar a portion.

26 ... Zebulun a portion.

27...Gad a portion.

29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord GOD.

Note: The priests and the Levites would have a special section of land described in this chapter (verse 8-22). But no Gentiles, and therefore no Church.
 

Keras

Active member
Aug 9, 2020
139
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#8
The Bible makes it crystal clear that the eternal home of the Church is the heavenly New Jerusalem. Not the land of Israel, which is reserved exclusively for the 12 tribes of Jacob.

EZEKIEL 48: GREATER ISRAEL UNDER CHRIST ALLOTTED TO THE TWELVE TRIBES

1 Now these are the names of the tribes... a portion for Dan.

2...a portion for Asher.

3 ...a portion for Naphtali.

4...a portion for Manasseh.

5...a portion for Ephraim.

6... a portion for Reuben.

7...a portion for Judah.

23 As for the rest of the tribes, from the east side unto the west side, Benjamin shall have a portion.

24...Simeon shall have a portion.

25...Issachar a portion.

26 ... Zebulun a portion.

27...Gad a portion.

29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord GOD.

Note: The priests and the Levites would have a special section of land described in this chapter (verse 8-22). But no Gentiles, and therefore no Church.
Yes; that is our eventual destiny. Which will happen after the Millennium. Also the New Jerusalem comes to the earth, we humans never leave our earthly home.

You make a serious error to say there will be no gentiles in the new Israel. We are grafted into the Tree, who is Jesus, who is the Seed of Abraham, who is the Israel of God. Which makes the born again Christians the Israelites of God, as Paul says in Galatians 6:14-16.

WE are the people who bear the proper fruit, Matthew 21:43, WE are the people whom God will give the holy Land to, Jeremiah 8:10
That it is quite wrong to think the Jewish people still have a legal claim over all the holy Land, is proved by how they represent just 2/12ths of all of Israel. There is a very interesting story in Jeremiah 32:14, where the Title deeds of a field; representing all of the Land, are sealed into a jar; to be kept for a very long time, when once again My righteous people will live there. Psalms 37:29
 
Mar 14, 2011
70,728
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#9
Yes; that is our eventual destiny. Which will happen after the Millennium. Also the New Jerusalem comes to the earth, we humans never leave our earthly home.

You make a serious error to say there will be no gentiles in the new Israel. We are grafted into the Tree, who is Jesus, who is the Seed of Abraham, who is the Israel of God. Which makes the born again Christians the Israelites of God, as Paul says in Galatians 6:14-16.

WE are the people who bear the proper fruit, Matthew 21:43, WE are the people whom God will give the holy Land to, Jeremiah 8:10
That it is quite wrong to think the Jewish people still have a legal claim over all the holy Land, is proved by how they represent just 2/12ths of all of Israel. There is a very interesting story in Jeremiah 32:14, where the Title deeds of a field; representing all of the Land, are sealed into a jar; to be kept for a very long time, when once again My righteous people will live there. Psalms 37:29
You forgot Lev 26, (if they repent, I will remember the land I will remember the promise to the fathers. Ez 37, (a divided Isreal,is made one again, and gentiles punished,) zech 14 - again Isreal restored, and families who do not come to worship are punished with no rain, even Rom 11. All Isreal will be saved when time of gentile is complete, the gifts of god are irrevocable
 

Keras

Active member
Aug 9, 2020
139
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#10
You forgot Lev 26, (if they repent, I will remember the land I will remember the promise to the fathers. Ez 37, (a divided Isreal,is made one again, and gentiles punished,) zech 14 - again Isreal restored, and families who do not come to worship are punished with no rain, even Rom 11. All Isreal will be saved when time of gentile is complete, the gifts of god are irrevocable
What you forget; is the fact that the Jewish House of Judah, represents only 2 of the 12 tribes of Israel.
The other 10 tribes remain scattered among the nations and are as many as the sands of the seas. THEY ARE the Christian peoples, the ones Jesus came to save. Matthew 15:24
The "all Israel' that will be saved can only be those who have accepted Jesus now. From all of the 12 tribes, plus people from everu race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10.

Still can't spell Israel? No wonder you fail to understand who the real Israel is.
 
Mar 14, 2011
70,728
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#11
What you forget; is the fact that the Jewish House of Judah, represents only 2 of the 12 tribes of Israel.
The other 10 tribes remain scattered among the nations and are as many as the sands of the seas. THEY ARE the Christian peoples, the ones Jesus came to save. Matthew 15:24
The "all Israel' that will be saved can only be those who have accepted Jesus now. From all of the 12 tribes, plus people from everu race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10.

Still can't spell Israel? No wonder you fail to understand who the real Israel is.
Lol what is obvious is you did not even read the passages I gave you.

Ez 37:
And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.” ’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.

21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

again, please try to read, Israel, has not been restored yet, what you see now is not the restoration,
 

Keras

Active member
Aug 9, 2020
139
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#12
please try to read, Israel, has not been restored yet, what you see now is not the restoration,
Right; the current Jewish State of Israel, is not the Israel God will have in the holy Land.

I know Ezekiel 37 quite well and it is obvious that the two Houses have not re-joined as yet.
Please answer:
1/ Who and where is the House of Israel today?
2/ What is the fate of the House of Judah, the Israeli peoples? [Excepting for a remnant, Romans 9:27]
3/ Who will be the people in all of the holy Land, when the Anti-Christ conquers them? [As seen in Daniel 7:25 and Rev 13:7]
4/ What is the event Jesus refers to; 'as in the days of Noah'? Matthew 24:37-41
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#13
Right; the current Jewish State of Israel, is not the Israel God will have in the holy Land.

I know Ezekiel 37 quite well and it is obvious that the two Houses have not re-joined as yet.
Please answer:
1/ Who and where is the House of Israel today?
2/ What is the fate of the House of Judah, the Israeli peoples? [Excepting for a remnant, Romans 9:27]
3/ Who will be the people in all of the holy Land, when the Anti-Christ conquers them? [As seen in Daniel 7:25 and Rev 13:7]
4/ What is the event Jesus refers to; 'as in the days of Noah'? Matthew 24:37-41
either I have misunderstood you, or you continue to misunderstand me,

israel, will be restored at some point, and that Israel are the true house of jacob by flesh and blood,not the spiritual house or the church as many want us to belief
 

Keras

Active member
Aug 9, 2020
139
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#14
either I have misunderstood you, or you continue to misunderstand me,

israel, will be restored at some point, and that Israel are the true house of jacob by flesh and blood,not the spiritual house or the church as many want us to belief
You avoid the fact that the Church is grafted into Israel.
Your insistence in having an ethnic, bloodline Israel is wrong, although many; probably most, who belong will be descendants of Jacob.

Any ideas of God having two peoples, two promise's, is unscriptural and only promoted by those who have been fooled by the 'rapture' to heaven of the Church theory . Not going to happen.
 
Mar 14, 2011
70,728
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#15
You avoid the fact that the Church is grafted into Israel.
Your insistence in having an ethnic, bloodline Israel is wrong, although many; probably most, who belong will be descendants of Jacob.

Any ideas of God having two peoples, two promise's, is unscriptural and only promoted by those who have been fooled by the 'rapture' to heaven of the Church theory . Not going to happen.
I did not think I misread you

I am grafted unto Christ for salvation, but that has nothing to do with Gd restoring 2 groups where were taken from their land (Isreal by assyria and judas by rome) being restored at one in her land again

Isreal has its own separate covenant here in earth which has nothing to do with salvation. One can be part of that covenant and never see heaven because its not about heaven

Go back and read that chapter. The people restored where those punished while in isreal. Not the church
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,673
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#17
Yes; that is our eventual destiny. Which will happen after the Millennium. Also the New Jerusalem comes to the earth, we humans never leave our earthly home.
The above is false. Below is Jesus' promise to believers within the church:

"My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.”

So, Jesus reference to "My Father's house" could only be referring to heaven. Jesus said that He went there to the Father's house to prepare places for us. And that since He went there to prepare places for us, that He would be coming back to take us to those places that He prepared for us in the Father's house, which again would be heaven. I Thessalonians 4:13-18 is a detailed account of John 14:1-3 when He comes back to get us.

[quoteYou make a serious error to say there will be no gentiles in the new Israel. We are grafted into the Tree, who is Jesus, who is the Seed of Abraham, who is the Israel of God. Which makes the born again Christians the Israelites of God, as Paul says in Galatians 6:14-16.[/quote]

Being grafted in does not mean that we become Israel. The prophesies of Ezekiel chapters 40 thru 48, are in reference to the millennial temple for the actual tribes of Israel. The church, dead and living, will have been caught up immortal and glorified before the first seal is opened which initiates God's wrath. The church is never mentioned within the narrative of God's wrath within Revelation chapter 6 thru 18. That is because Revelation 4:1 is a prophetic allusion to where the church is gathered when John hears that voice that sounds like a trumpet saying "come up here and I will show you what must take place after this." the "what must take place after this" ends the church period and begins the time of God's wrath. Since believers within the church are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then we must be removed prior to that time period.

In addition, Revelation 12:6, 12 describes the woman which symbolically represents the unbelieving nation of Israel, who will flee out into the wilderness and be cared for by God during that 1260 days, which is the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.

WE are the people who bear the proper fruit, Matthew 21:43, WE are the people whom God will give the holy Land to, Jeremiah 8:10 That it is quite wrong to think the Jewish people still have a legal claim over all the holy Land, is proved by how they represent just 2/12ths of all of Israel. There is a very interesting story in Jeremiah 32:14, where the Title deeds of a field; representing all of the Land, are sealed into a jar; to be kept for a very long time, when once again My righteous people will live there. Psalms 37:29
God is not done with His people Israel. Everything that has been prophesied regarding them will be fulfilled. As Paul said, "All of Israel will be saved."

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I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
And this is f my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
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Jesus said, "I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." In Daniel 9:24 seventy seven year periods (490 years) were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem. Sixty nine of those were fulfilled when the Anointed One was cut off. When the Lord began to build His church, the last seven years of that seventy sevens was put on hold to be fulfilled in conjunction with God's wrath and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. Once the church has been gathered, God will take up right where left off with Israel in fulfillment of that last seven years, complete with a temple and sacrifices and offerings, which will be made possible by that seven year covenant which that ruler, the antichrist, makes with Israel.

It is a false teaching to replace Israel and apply all of their promises to the church, because Israel and the church are two different dispensations, having two different programs. As believers, we should keep Israel in our prayers and understand that God has not abandoned His people and has not replace Israel with the church.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,673
1,652
113
#18
What you forget; is the fact that the Jewish House of Judah, represents only 2 of the 12 tribes of Israel.
The other 10 tribes remain scattered among the nations and are as many as the sands of the seas. THEY ARE the Christian peoples, the ones Jesus came to save. Matthew 15:24
The "all Israel' that will be saved can only be those who have accepted Jesus now. From all of the 12 tribes, plus people from everu race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10.

Still can't spell Israel? No wonder you fail to understand who the real Israel is.
Israel, is true Israel. The following tribes are listed who will each be allotted their sections of land during the millennial kingdom:

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These are the tribes, listed by name: At the northern frontier, Dan will have one portion; it will follow the Hethlon road to Lebo Hamath; Hazar Enan and the northern border of Damascus next to Hamath will be part of its border from the east side to the west side.

Asher will have one portion; it will border the territory of Dan from east to west.

Naphtali will have one portion; it will border the territory of Asher from east to west.

Manasseh will have one portion; it will border the territory of Naphtali from east to west.

Ephraim will have one portion; it will border the territory of Manasseh from east to west.

Reuben will have one portion; it will border the territory of Ephraim from east to west.

Judah will have one portion; it will border the territory of Reuben from east to west.

Benjamin will have one portion; it will extend from the east side to the west side.

Simeon will have one portion; it will border the territory of Benjamin from east to west.

Issachar will have one portion; it will border the territory of Simeon from east to west.

Zebulun will have one portion; it will border the territory of Issachar from east to west.

Gad will have one portion; it will border the territory of Zebulun from east to west.

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The priests and Levite's will have a special portion surrounding the temple, as will the Zadokites, who remained faithful to God when the rest of the Levites were unfaithful.
 

Keras

Active member
Aug 9, 2020
139
28
28
#19
God is not done with His people Israel. Everything that has been prophesied regarding them will be fulfilled. As Paul said, "All of Israel will be saved."
By His people: Israel, I assume you mean the citizens of the Jewish State of Israel and perhaps a few million other people, who claim to be Jewish?
If so; then you have failed to read the prophecies that detail what God intends to do with those people. Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 22:1-14, +
God has given them nearly 2000 years to get right with Him, they refuse to believe in Jesus and they rely on their own strength for their safety.

In Romans 11:28-32: it does say some of the Jewish people will receive God's mercy, despite their continued rejection of Jesus. Romans 9:27
There will be two main criteria for this:
1/ They must be actual members of the House of Judah. Not those who call themselves Jews, but are not. Revelation 2:9
2/ They must show true repentance and remorse, as Jeremiah 12:14-16 tells us:..... I will have pity on them [Judah] and bring them back to their Land, if they learn the ways of My People, [Christians] and swear allegiance to My Name.

Note; the remnant Jews will be so ashamed of their errors, they will keep very quiet. Ezekiel 16:63

However; the main Christian peoples who will go to live in all of the holy Land after the Lord has cleared and cleansed it, will be descendants of the ten Northern tribes; the House of Israel, joined by every faithful Christian from every race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 5:9-10
This will fulfil God's promise to the Patriarchs, that their descendants will inherit the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26
The priests and Levite's will have a special portion surrounding the temple, as will the Zadokites, who remained faithful to God when the rest of the Levites were unfaithful.
Isaiah 66:21 and Revelation 5:10 both clearly say; the Lord will choose His priests from among the Christian peoples.
 

Keras

Active member
Aug 9, 2020
139
28
28
#20
You avoid the fact that the Church is grafted into Israel.
Your insistence in having an ethnic, bloodline Israel is wrong, although many; probably most, who belong will be descendants of Jacob.

Any ideas of God having two peoples, two promise's, is unscriptural and only promoted by those who have been fooled by the 'rapture' to heaven of the Church theory . Not going to happen.
To Eternally Grateful:
I stand by this statement. There is no special Covenant with a group of people who falsely claim to be Israel.

As you continue to mis-spell Israel, discussion with you is impossible.