Dispensationalism...
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AMEN - The Israel of God = His Lamb Blood Washed Saints, Jew & Gentile, one in Messiah, Born of the Spirit of God = Sons of God.
Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
1 John ch3
Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
1 John ch3
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an king to judge then like all the rest of the nations I think is the err where they desire an secular king like those in 1 Samuel 8 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_samuel/8.htm or maybe is it just like two thousand years ago when they refused Jesus and rather desired an secular king instead and tried to revolt against Rome and establish another one? Maybe they even in these modern days do the same and say let us make an image of the beast that was,was not yet is and have then set themselves up another secular nation in the very image of the one removed in ad70...
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You guys have always got to go out of the scriptures to argue your case.
Oh you don't like the rapture do you
That's because the doctrine that we will be caught up to meet the returning Lord in the clouds drives a coach and horses through your whole amillennial theology.
Amillennialism is blown, it is now shown to be the error it always was. The church is not going to manifestly reign in this age as Augustine taught. We DO reign through Christ but it is in a mystery, the world does not recognize that we reign.
We are not called to set up the kingdom of God we are called to be witnesses to it, witnesses to the King who is coming, not to destroy but to REIGN.
The 4th century Catholic church had no right to drop the doctrine of Christ's reign on earth with His saints.
Oh you don't like the rapture do you
That's because the doctrine that we will be caught up to meet the returning Lord in the clouds drives a coach and horses through your whole amillennial theology.
Amillennialism is blown, it is now shown to be the error it always was. The church is not going to manifestly reign in this age as Augustine taught. We DO reign through Christ but it is in a mystery, the world does not recognize that we reign.
We are not called to set up the kingdom of God we are called to be witnesses to it, witnesses to the King who is coming, not to destroy but to REIGN.
The 4th century Catholic church had no right to drop the doctrine of Christ's reign on earth with His saints.
Paul didn't tell you that, you are dealing with half truths. You said that God does not chose people by ethnicity ... but He chose the Jews.
And God has not made any covenant with the Gentiles, all His covenants are with the Jews, even the new covenant in Christ's blood.
And we have not replaced Israel we have been joined to Israel. Made co heirs of THEIR covenants and fellow citizens of THEIR commonwealth not by obedience to the law or observance of ordinance but by faith in Christ.
This is what Paul warns you about, don't be wise in your own conceits, flaunting against the Jews.
He tells you a mystery, a hardening in part has come upon Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles are come in and so ALL Israel will be saved.
We can debate what ALL may mean in this context but it certainly does not mean they are cast away forever.
Pauls says they are NOT cast away forever ... stop arguing with Paul.
And God has not made any covenant with the Gentiles, all His covenants are with the Jews, even the new covenant in Christ's blood.
And we have not replaced Israel we have been joined to Israel. Made co heirs of THEIR covenants and fellow citizens of THEIR commonwealth not by obedience to the law or observance of ordinance but by faith in Christ.
This is what Paul warns you about, don't be wise in your own conceits, flaunting against the Jews.
He tells you a mystery, a hardening in part has come upon Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles are come in and so ALL Israel will be saved.
We can debate what ALL may mean in this context but it certainly does not mean they are cast away forever.
Pauls says they are NOT cast away forever ... stop arguing with Paul.
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Why did He choose YOU? because you are a good and righteous person?
You are the boys who BELIEVE in predestiny and election. Israel was chosen in Abraham who God foreknew. God KNEW that they would reject Him and by their rejection would bring salvation to the world.
It was REBELLIOUS Israel which has brought YOU salvation, the ones who gave Him up to be crucified. Salvation is wholly of the Jews.
You owe them my friend.
You are the boys who BELIEVE in predestiny and election. Israel was chosen in Abraham who God foreknew. God KNEW that they would reject Him and by their rejection would bring salvation to the world.
It was REBELLIOUS Israel which has brought YOU salvation, the ones who gave Him up to be crucified. Salvation is wholly of the Jews.
You owe them my friend.
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I speak of my experiences as i do not have the educated knowledge i see here of these men of God.
During the time i began to understand dispensationalism was Zionist based and not Biblical the lesson learned was reading the Scriptures with out the deeply imbedded preconceived ideals. They were deep 2 generations deep as grandpa and Dad both Pentecostal pastors . I read the words of Scofield as Scripture simply because his words were printed in the Bible. Was only about 2 when Israel became a state but old enough to hear about when it was the " time of new beginnings" 7-8 years after 1948. O yes rapture at any time. Anyone want to know what the Lord is doing " look at the state of Israel " I dont believe they realized they were saying look to the antichrist nation for guidance. Accepting these verses , please read in context, was very difficult .
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Exo 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
are you not part of the Body of His firstborn, Israel ?
Heb_12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
During the time i began to understand dispensationalism was Zionist based and not Biblical the lesson learned was reading the Scriptures with out the deeply imbedded preconceived ideals. They were deep 2 generations deep as grandpa and Dad both Pentecostal pastors . I read the words of Scofield as Scripture simply because his words were printed in the Bible. Was only about 2 when Israel became a state but old enough to hear about when it was the " time of new beginnings" 7-8 years after 1948. O yes rapture at any time. Anyone want to know what the Lord is doing " look at the state of Israel " I dont believe they realized they were saying look to the antichrist nation for guidance. Accepting these verses , please read in context, was very difficult .
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Exo 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
are you not part of the Body of His firstborn, Israel ?
Heb_12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
No, Abraham was a Gentile
No. He was a Gentile. God called him out of Ur of the Chaldees (Gen. 11:31-12:1). What is interesting is that the phrase "called out" is translated "Ekklesia" in Greek which means "church." So, every true believer that hears the call, is "called out" from the world to become a true Hebrew (Hebrew means the one who "crosses over.").
We have crossed over from the world's mindset to the kingdom of God.
A Jew on the other hand meant that he was part of the tribe of Judah, although the definition has changed today.
No. He was a Gentile. God called him out of Ur of the Chaldees (Gen. 11:31-12:1). What is interesting is that the phrase "called out" is translated "Ekklesia" in Greek which means "church." So, every true believer that hears the call, is "called out" from the world to become a true Hebrew (Hebrew means the one who "crosses over.").
We have crossed over from the world's mindset to the kingdom of God.
A Jew on the other hand meant that he was part of the tribe of Judah, although the definition has changed today.
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yes
They will say that the root is Christ and there is good reason. But they are short sighted. For if He is Christ He is Israel's Christ, He was promised to them. He is their Olive tree and God has graciously included US and grafted us into their Olive.
Cut Israel off and to what Olive then are we grafted? to which commonwealth are we made fellow citizens with the Jews of? to what covenants and the all the promises contained therein are we co-heirs of?
And that is exactly what they teach, for they say the promises of God concerning healing and prosperity and protection are for the Jews when they obeyed the law. They say this to hide their nakedness in that God does not seem to answer prayer.
Amillennialism has been a disaster for the church. And it has a knock on effect on every other doctrine. You can't just cut out doctrines from the bible.
They will say that the root is Christ and there is good reason. But they are short sighted. For if He is Christ He is Israel's Christ, He was promised to them. He is their Olive tree and God has graciously included US and grafted us into their Olive.
Cut Israel off and to what Olive then are we grafted? to which commonwealth are we made fellow citizens with the Jews of? to what covenants and the all the promises contained therein are we co-heirs of?
And that is exactly what they teach, for they say the promises of God concerning healing and prosperity and protection are for the Jews when they obeyed the law. They say this to hide their nakedness in that God does not seem to answer prayer.
Amillennialism has been a disaster for the church. And it has a knock on effect on every other doctrine. You can't just cut out doctrines from the bible.
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