Distinction between Pre-trib rapture and 2nd advent

[DeeperStill]

I've noticed a confusion about the Rapture and the second advent of Jesus.

In order to help clear up ( if possible) some confusion, I am going to post in blue that which pertains to the Rapture, and post in Green which pertains to the 2nd advent/ coming of Jesus.

I hope for some, this many help some of your confusion of the two separate , and yet future, events.

(R) Rapture (2A) 2nd Advent
********** *************
(R). Delivers the Church
(2A). Delivers Israel

(R). Invisible
(2A). Visible

(R). Church meets Lord in earth's atmosphere
(2A). Christ physically lands on Mount of Olives

(R). Lord claims His bride
(2A). Christ returns WITH His Bride

(R). Completes God's program for the Church
(2A). Related to God's program for Israel

(R). Mystery
(2A). Prophesied throughout Old Testament

(R). Leaves creation unchanged
(2A). Creation changed

(R). Does not fulfill covenants
(2A). Marks the beginning of their fulfillment

(R). Precedes Tribulation
(2A). Follows Tribulation

(R). Effects Church only
(2A). Effects Israel

(R). Marks the beginning of the worst time in history
(2A). Marks the beginning of the greatest time in history

(R). Removes believers
(2A). Removes unbelievers

(R). satan remains
(2A). satan is removed

(R). Precedes appearance of anti-christ
(2A). Precedes anti-christ's removal

(R). Religion remains on the earth
(2A). Religion no longer exists

(R). Precedes marriage of the Lamb
(2A). Follows the marriage of the Lamb

(R). Exact time cannot be determined
(2A). Exact time CAN be determined

(R). Precedes Bema seat Judgment of Church
(2A). Precedes Judgment of Israel

(R). Marks beginning of anti-christ's rulership
(2A). Marks the end of anti-christ rulership

(R). Evil flourishes after rapture
(2A). Evil no longer exists after 2nd Advent

(R). Marks the end of God's rebuttal in the appeal trial of satan.
(2A). Marks the end of satan's rebuttal in the trial

(R). Marks the exit of the Church.
(2A). Marks the entrance of regenerate Israel

*********
I hope you will see through these distinctions that the rapture and second advent are two different occurrences yet future and not the same.

 

[papak]

great study deeper...thanks for sharing...papa k......

 

[watchmen]

great study deeper...thanks for sharing...papa k......

Would be accept it is totally false and unbiblical. Pretrib ''Theologians'' teach that Jesus comes before the tribulation, secretly in the clouds, to snatch the church from the earth, and take us to Heaven. So that we will miss the tribulation period, spending it in Heaven, celebrating the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. While the unbelievers are left behind to suffer the wrath of God here on earth.
Sounds real nice, only problem is, the Bible never teaches that Jesus comes before the tribulation. It doesn't say there will be a secret return of Christ at all. It never teaches us that we go to Heaven after the resurrection and/ or ''rapture'' of the just. The Bible does not say that we will miss the tribulation period, nor does it say when or where the Marriage Supper of the Lamb takes place. You will not find any aspect of the pretrib teaching in scripture.
The Bible does teach however that Jesus will come to the earth twice, once to be the sacrifice for our sins and secondly to set up his Kingdom here on earth. He came the first time 2,000 years ago and fulfilled His obligation as the sacrificial Lamb of God, and He is returning a second time after the tribulation, before the Millennium, to resurrect the just, catch away the living saints, bring judgment to the wicked, and declare his Kingship here on earth.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear a second time without sin unto salvation.
There is no mention in scripture of a partial coming or secret coming (where He doesn't really return because His feet didn't touch the ground, but instead He just came in the clouds to get the church and go back to Heaven) nor is there any mention of a third coming of Christ.
This entire belief system is based on conjecture, speculation, and false hope created by Satan to keep the church unaware and unprepared for the perilous times to come. Which we will have to face all types of persecutions even martyrdom for Christ sake (yes even here in America). However if we suffer for Christ we shall also reign with him during the Millennium.
2nd Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with Him, if we deny Him, He will also deny us.

 

[Leilaii425]

Who cares, this is how i see it. If i have to suffer till the end alright then, im sure my faith will be much stronger by that point. If he takes us before then. Great. Either way. i'll just be happy to see him

 

[watchmen]

Who cares, this is how i see it. If i have to suffer till the end alright then, im sure my faith will be much stronger by that point. If he takes us before then. Great. Either way. i'll just be happy to see him

What you have to give your very life for Christ during the tribulation?

 

[Leilaii425]

What you have to give your very life for Christ during the tribulation?

Im sorry watchmen im not sure i understand that sentence, would you mind explaining. Thank you

 

[Leilaii425]

What you have to give your very life for Christ during the tribulation?

ohh i think i understand now, well if i have to give my very life for christ during the tribulation then so be it. He gave his life for me, in the most horrific way possible. Why should i not do it for him. Im not afraid to die, because i know where im going. Now of course do i wanna die in a painful excrutiating death, no. who does, but if i do, theres nothin i can do about it. When your called home. Your called home.

 

[DeeperStill]

great study deeper...thanks for sharing...papa k......

Thank you Papa K, I do hope in my heart that those who have a ear to hear, and eyes to see will discern the Spirit of truth and error. Many will come causing divisions and conflict in the word. This cannot be avoided in this world we live in. So then, how do we discern if a mans words come from a heart of love in Jesus Christ, or divisions and strife?

Look for fruit. It is not impossible to see ... even in a forum such as this you can discern that which comes from strife and that which comes from peace.

May the eyes of your hearts see what is clearly visible.

T.

 

[watchmen]

Im sorry watchmen im not sure i understand that sentence, would you mind explaining. Thank you

Yes most believers are going to be martyred during the Tribulation. Revelation says it will be a number to large to be counted. The chances are we are all going to be asked to deny Christ and bow to the anti christ or die. We need to know this truth, we need to prepare our hearts and mind for this possibility.

 

[watchmen]

I do hope in my heart that those who have a ear to hear, and eyes to see will discern the Spirit of truth and error.

That is my prayer as well especially for you deeper on many subject not just this one.

 

[watchmen]

ohh i think i understand now, well if i have to give my very life for christ during the tribulation then so be it. He gave his life for me, in the most horrific way possible. Why should i not do it for him. Im not afraid to die, because i know where im going. Now of course do i wanna die in a painful excrutiating death, no. who does, but if i do, theres nothin i can do about it. When your called home. Your called home.

Amen Leilaii I am with you He died for me, and I am totally willing to die for Him. I pray that those caught up in the escapism cult called the pretrib doctrine would come to a true knowledge of how much Jesus really loves them, and will not turn on Him when the trib comes.

 

[Buddee]

I've always found the following excerpt to be a great, i.e. correct, explanation of this matter.
******************************************************************************

Like the pre-wrath view, the pre-trib teaching ignores the basic and straight-forward meaning of the word "Parousia," and renders it a somewhat muddled concept. However, a study of the Greek word "Parousia," as it is used in the New Testament, will give us a clearer and more consistent picture of Christ's Second Coming :

The New Testament Greek word "Parousia" (pronounced "pah-roo-SEE-ah"), when used concerning Christ, is a specialized or "technical" term, since it speaks "nearly always of his Messianic advent in glory to judge the world at the end of the age" (Greek-English Lexicon by Bauer, Arndt and Gingrich, p.635); -----in fact, 16 of the 17 usages are like this. In English translations of the Bible, Christ's Parousia is usually translated as his "coming" or "presence," but it necessarily includes the idea of his glorious "arrival" to earth in order to be personally with people on earth.
​

This word, "parousia," was used in NT times to indicate the coming of a ruler or official who was just arriving at outskirts of a city in order to be "present" with the people in that city. It never meant that the ruler merely drew near to the city, only to pass it by without entering in. This picture of "parousia" rules out the "fly-by" concept where the Lord does not continue his descent to complete his arrival to be present with people on earth.


Next, considering several verses which speak of Christ's Parousia, is highly informative on his Second Coming and the rapture.

In 1 Cor. 15:23, Paul brings out that the resurrection of believers in Christ will happen "at his Parousia" ("when he comes"). Then in 1 Thes. 4, where Paul describes the Parousia ("coming") of the Lord (v.15), we read that this is the time of the saint's resurrection and rapture (v.16,17). The resurrection and rapture of the saints (born again believers) is connected to, and is part of the Parousia.

Adding to this concept, historically, : "When a dignitary paid an official visit or parousia to a city in Hellenistic times, the action of the leading citizens in going out to meet him and escorting him on the final stage of his journey was called the apentesis..." (F.F.Bruce, in New Bible Commentary, ©'70, p.1159)

In harmony with this historical picture, Paul states in 1Thess.4:17 that the resurrected and transformed saints will be caught up (raptured) to "meet (Gk=apentesis) the Lord in the air", in order to escort him on the last little portion of his arrival to earth at the Parousia (which is the glorious Second Coming and arrival to earth). ---If Jesus were to snatch these people away from the earth, it would not fit with the picture portrayed by these two Greek words, "parousia" and "apentesis". In 1 Thess. 3:13, it is because of Christ's catching up of believers to meet him in the air, followed immediately by their escorting (apentesis) of him as he completes his arrival to earth, that Paul says the Parousia (coming) of our Lord Jesus is "with all his holy ones," as he descends to the earth.

In 2 Thess. 2:8, Paul looks ahead to the end of the Great Tribulation as he mentions the destruction of the Antichrist "whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his Parousia (coming)." ...This verse clearly tells us that the Parousia (which includes the saint's resurrection and rapture) will be the powerful and glorious event of "splendor" which will destroy the Antichrist at the end of the Great Tribulation. Jesus also depicts his Parousia as glorious and powerful: "For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the Parousia of the Son of Man" (Mat. 24:27). The Parousia will be gloriously visible to the whole world. We should see it that way in our mind's eye.

 

[DeeperStill]

God has reminded me watchmen that I will never face an antagonist or opposition alone. In fact Jesus reminded his disciples, and me too, that persecution will come to those who walk in obedience to God. However, I am perplexed by your constant attack on the truths that so many here hold to be true but I am not discouraged because I know that even though you come across to many as the antagonist, that God will not leave you where you are, nor me where I am, if we are indeed His. Our ways may be different, but I do believe that neither you , nor I will know the full measure of our own errors until we stand before Jesus and He lovingly shows them to us. You really have no need to tell me. Your words hold very little power in comparison to the ones He will speak to me at that time.

May God keep you

T

 

[watchmen]

God has reminded me watchmen that I will never face an antagonist or opposition alone. In fact Jesus reminded his disciples, and me too, that persecution will come to those who walk in obedience to God. However, I am perplexed by your constant attack on the truths that so many here hold to be true but I am not discouraged because I know that even though you come across to many as the antagonist, that God will not leave you where you are, nor me where I am, if we are indeed His. Our ways may be different, but I do believe that neither you , nor I will know the full measure of our own errors until we stand before Jesus and He lovingly shows them to us. You really have no need to tell me. Your words hold very little power in comparison to the ones He will speak to me at that time.

May God keep you

T

I know we will not have to face the anti christ alone that God will be with you, I also am not here to discourage you but to warn you so you can prepare yourself. Some may think i am antagonistic, but that is only because they do not want to hear to truth i speak. I am not here to antagonize, but to help people learn the truth of scripture. I incourage you all to prepare you hearts and minds for the trouble all believers will son have to face, stand firm in your faith even unto death.

 

[AnRev]

The Antichrist is already here. Has been for over 200 years. The only problem is people do not know a couple of things about it, and that includes many scholars and television personalities.

1. The Antichrist is a spirit that was here when John was here and he told us it is a group of people who basically teach false things about Jesus and salvation.
2. Many confuse the Man of Sin with the Antichrist. Satan is the Man of Sin and has been given two periods of reign. Now since Jesus, and after the millennium.
3. The third and hardest for people to understand is that there is no seven year tribulation. The tribulation started when Jesus left and it will end when he comes back. Every Christian will face Satan and the Antichrist spirit. Your living in it now.

Daniel 9:26 and 9:27 is not talking about the Antichrist or Man of Sin. Daniel is taking about Jesus, he started the seventieth week and half way through he was crucified. The remaining time will be when Satan has proclaimed himself to be God by misleading the Rapture event and causing the abomination of desolation to speak (which isn't built yet). The departure of Jesus brought on that which makes desolate (the ruler of this world took over then).

There has been so much false teaching going on over the Antichrist, which most has been in the last thirty years, that very few even know the truth about what is going to happen. So many stories, so much deception that people believe different things.

 

[Lifelike]

I've just finished watch a DVD series by Walter Veith called Total Onslaught. It's the best teaching I've ever seen on end times, thr prophecies of Daniel and revelation and clearly identifies the antichrist. I would advise though if you decide to watch it that you start from the beginning and watch it cronologically as it builds a foundation throughout and tackles concepts that are very different from teachings on this subject over the last few decades. But it is very powerful and I feel it undeniably proves it's case. Walter Veith is an ex evolutionist and atheiest as was one of the most highly respected university professors in his subjects. Very powerful stuff.
I am part of a prophetic/apostolic church on the gold coast of Australia god is preparing us like never before, these are very serious times. Whether there is a pretrib rapture or not to me is not what it's all about. If we are not ready for wat ever god does we will suffer loss. God is going to pour out his spirit on all flesh like never before in history but there is a prerequisite. Preparation, god is preparing a people, through the refiners fire to purge and purify and so that godly character is what remains. He will then glorify himself in the earth. In his saints. Now whether that happens as a pretrib midteib or posttrib to me is not the main thing, the main thing is are we being prepared and will we be ready to be used by God. He will be glorified, we will be persecuted, darkness will be at it's greatest point ever over the minds ofmen, Satan will be attacking with absolute desparation because his time is SHORT hallelujah!

 

[AnRev]

I wouldn't worry about watching videos on the Antichrist and the Tribulation. I would spend more time reading and see if you can learn from the Bible instead.

 

[Slepsog4]

Deeper,

Other than individual Jews being saved by faith in Christ and obedience to His Lordship... the nation of Israel was judged with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

 

[Lifelike]

I wouldn't worry about watching videos on the Antichrist and the Tribulation. I would spend more time reading and see if you can learn from the Bible instead.

hey bro, we all need teachers, u dont just discredit the whole of the wealth of wisdom that God has revealed to others and ONLY keep what u only get personally from the word ay. We need to go back to the word with wat we are hearing from others, we all have a part, we prophecy in part, we need each other to get the whole picture dont you think? im DEFINATELY not negating seeking God for yourself in the Word but you cant say lets just blow off all other avenues of God trying to get His word to us and ONLY receive what we get direct from His Word.

Just like you would receive what your leaders teach from the pulpit, then judge the word by the Written Word and the witness in your spirit. But yes, if God is leading you to research end times in His word, go for it and you will be blessed...

 

[Jezreel]

Another wrong interpretation I feel that theologians who say that when the church is raptured there will be the marriage supper of the lamb. Remember the parable Jesus told about the marriage supper. When he was at the supper, he found a man who did not have a wedding garment on and he asked him "where is your wedding garment". The man was speechless and Jesus told his servants to bind him hand and foot and cast him into outer darkness where there is weepiing and gnashing of teeth. So, there are going to be ones who climb up into the sheepfold some other way other than going through the door of the sheepfold. Jesus is the door.