Do catholics worship God or the pope?

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Mark47Oz

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Jun 4, 2021
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Well, there's certainly a richness in terms of historical depth in the Catholic Church. It's like visiting the Queen of England's residence and witnessing the history of English kings and queens.

But I wouldn't at all say the Catholic Church is spiritually deeper than what I experience in an average-sized church in my neck of the woods. In fact, the spiritual presence of the Lord is so strong I can't but weep. Why should we even compare? This is just carnal competition.

I embrace the Catholic Church as home to so many Christians of the world. And yet, so many of them that I meet lack spiritual depth until they get outside of the Catholic Church. They didn't learn much more than a moral/spiritual tradition, and certainly didn't become biblically literate.

On the other hand, in my Protestant world I've run into many able biblically-literate people. You will find arguers and disenchanted people everywhere, who will compete with you, denigrate you, and basically, unashamedly indulge their flesh. So this is a sin problem, and not a Catholic or Protestant problem.

I just don't see any Catholic supposed superiority--nowhere. There is power in numbers, I suppose, and people feel secure in a huge organization of Christians that spans the centuries. Adding that the bureaucracy emanates from Peter is a bit much, though. ;)

But I have no wish to bash you. I'm just responding to a thread that deals with Catholicism. These are my two cents worth.
Okay, my last reply for the day.

I completely agree with you on all of the above. Maybe I should share a little of my faith journey with you, so you can understand where I come from.

#1 I was born, baptised and confirmed in the RCC as per tradition.
#2 Large parts of the RCC are dead wood - as in ritualistic and only paying lip service to their faith. My home town parish was one of these and I too was the organist for it for a while. Those parishes are dying.
#3 I had a great awakening through avenues considered taboo to most Protestants, but rest assured that I very quickly found myself moving among charismatic people who move in the Holy Spirit both inside and outside the Catholic church. Those protestants whom I shared fellowship with would listen to my story, look at me, scratch their heads and say 'Well, we can see Jesus in you, so who knows about the rest of your story then?"
#4 I wandered away from the church for 18 years and in that time my parents divorced (big taboo) my brothers and sisters dropped the faith like me and we all became lapsed - still maintaining some belief but definitely not good churchgoing christians.
#5 A Pentecostal who is becoming a great faith friend got talking to me a few months ago. My eyes were suddenly opened by God and I saw the spirit in her and I found her love for Jesus to be infectious. We talk a lot and compare our beliefs and are learning a lot from one another.
#6 I will always consider myself Catholic because of articles of faith that have not even been touched on here and things I have seen with my own eyes that I cannot renounce. The things that everyone like yourself raise are things I myself find contentious and I don't really pay to much credence to them.
 

Mark47Oz

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Jun 4, 2021
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What matters to me is not belonging to an organization, but rather, belonging to a Christian fellowship. Nothing wrong with organizing. But loyalty to God comes before loyalty to a Christian organization. Can you say yes to that?
Absolutely yes I can agree with that. I feel it is what I have been trying to say all day :)

In a nutshell, I am from the Catholic Church, but I am not bound to it. After my first awakening in 1993 I never considered myself exclusively RCC, just a participant whom loved those outside just as much as I love those within it.
 

randyk

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Jan 14, 2021
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Pacific NW USA
Okay, my last reply for the day.

I completely agree with you on all of the above. Maybe I should share a little of my faith journey with you, so you can understand where I come from.

#1 I was born, baptised and confirmed in the RCC as per tradition.
#2 Large parts of the RCC are dead wood - as in ritualistic and only paying lip service to their faith. My home town parish was one of these and I too was the organist for it for a while. Those parishes are dying.
#3 I had a great awakening through avenues considered taboo to most Protestants, but rest assured that I very quickly found myself moving among charismatic people who move in the Holy Spirit both inside and outside the Catholic church. Those protestants whom I shared fellowship with would listen to my story, look at me, scratch their heads and say 'Well, we can see Jesus in you, so who knows about the rest of your story then?"
#4 I wandered away from the church for 18 years and in that time my parents divorced (big taboo) my brothers and sisters dropped the faith like me and we all became lapsed - still maintaining some belief but definitely not good churchgoing christians.
#5 A Pentecostal who is becoming a great faith friend got talking to me a few months ago. My eyes were suddenly opened by God and I saw the spirit in her and I found her love for Jesus to be infectious. We talk a lot and compare our beliefs and are learning a lot from one another.
#6 I will always consider myself Catholic because of articles of faith that have not even been touched on here and things I have seen with my own eyes that I cannot renounce. The things that everyone like yourself raise are things I myself find contentious and I don't really pay to much credence to them.
Well, that was an interesting revelation! I'm just sharing what I've seen and what I believe--is the truth of what I say offensive to you? I grew up from birth a Lutheran, and later turned away from it because it also was "dead wood." I'm not offended by that!

It was, I believe, a Catholic charismatic priest who indirectly helped launch the Jesus People in my region many years ago. I'm very happy with the Catholic charismatic movement. It indirectly affected my life. I still don't like the things about the Catholic Church that I mentioned. I'm just stating my opinions.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Maybe you should read this; It sums up my view on denominational bickering perfectly;

Then an argument started among the disciples as to which of them would be the greatest. 47But Jesus, knowing the thoughts of their hearts, had a little child stand beside Him. 48And He said to them, “Whoever welcomes this little child in My name welcomes Me, and whoever welcomes Me welcomes the One who sent Me. For whoever is the least among all of you, he is the greatest.”

49“Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.”

50“Do not stop him,” Jesus replied, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”

Luke 9 46 - 50

The truth in how Jesus masterfully showed how bickering over who is greatest was pointless to his apostles is just as valid here. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ and just as Jesus said, "Whoever is the least among you will be the greatest" and "Whoever is not against you is for you"

You have accepted Peter as the first pope from an improper exegesis of THE WORD OF JESUS

in Matthew 16:15-20

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.


When Jesus said to Peter upon this ROCK the rock was not Peter it was the statement of Faith revealed to HIM who Jesus was
“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

it is in the name of Jesus His authority that the church stands and remains Faith in Christ alone. The name Peter means stone a part of the chief Corner Stone but not the chef stone. Peter is not the rock that the church was built on Peter was used because of the great faith and revelation given to him by God. How do I know this?

because many RCC fail you read just a few verses later when Jesus says to this same peter


22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

Which is it? Peter the Pope or Peter the devil? he can't be both. So, if we read what is said contextually Peter is not the devil no more than he is the first pope or the ROCK on which the church was and is built faith in Christ and HIM alone.

You did not respond to this post as you agree or disagree which is it?
 

Mark47Oz

Active member
Jun 4, 2021
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Well, that was an interesting revelation! I'm just sharing what I've seen and what I believe--is the truth of what I say offensive to you? I grew up from birth a Lutheran, and later turned away from it because it also was "dead wood." I'm not offended by that!

It was, I believe, a Catholic charismatic priest who indirectly helped launch the Jesus People in my region many years ago. I'm very happy with the Catholic charismatic movement. It indirectly affected my life. I still don't like the things about the Catholic Church that I mentioned. I'm just stating my opinions.
No, I'm not offended. Being Catholic puts a target on your back out there in the rest of the Christian community because there is a lot of misinformation out there about it. There are problems with it yes and there is a dark side to it too. But Just remember, I am here because I want to be and in a spirit brotherhood and equality.

 
May 18, 2021
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Still unsure what the answer is to the question in the thread title :ROFL:
 

Mark47Oz

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Jun 4, 2021
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Still unsure what the answer is to the question in the thread title :ROFL:
The Pope is just a human. No Catholic worships humans.

When we enter the church we go down on bended knee to the tabernacle which contains the presence of our living saviour Jesus Christ. And we worship him, the Father and the Holy Spirit.

It's that clear enough for you? 😃
 
May 18, 2021
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The Pope is just a human. No Catholic worships humans.

When we enter the church we go down on bended knee to the tabernacle which contains the presence of our living saviour Jesus Christ. And we worship him, the Father and the Holy Spirit.

It's that clear enough for you? 😃
It is, thank you.
Do catholics believe that the Pope has the authority to forgive sins?
 

Mark47Oz

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Jun 4, 2021
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It is, thank you.
Do catholics believe that the Pope has the authority to forgive sins?
Every priest is empowered with the sacrament of reconciliation.

You tell the priest your sins in the presence of God and He will give you absolution and issue you with an act of contrition (usually prayer) and often good advice on what to do to avoid making the same mistake again.

It's the same concept of repentance as every one else has except that we do it out loud and in front of someone else. It would be no different to someone with a heavy conscience going to their Pastor for help in a time of spiritual need when they're in a state of sin - say an alcoholic who's fallen off the bandwagon and comes looking for help. We do also repent in private and pray directly to God for forgiveness. We just find reconciliation helpful and liberating. It's really an ancient form of therapy.
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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When Jesus said to Peter upon this ROCK the rock was not Peter it was the statement of Faith revealed to HIM who Jesus was
Yep, the foundation of the church is not human, it is Jesus teaching.
 

Mark47Oz

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Jun 4, 2021
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Yep, the foundation of the church is not human, it is Jesus teaching.
100% correct!

Peter's role as the rock was simply to safeguard and proliferate those teachings. He is the only the head of the mundane human organisation.

I make the comparison of Peter to that of the foundation stone of a library building. You need somewhere practical to keep all those books to store them, keep them out of the weather and a place for people to come to access the knowledge those books contain. The library without the books is just another building. It's the books where the true treasure of knowledge is.

And so, Peter is the builder of the church organisation. The word of Christ is what the organisation houses, protects and provides a place to access and share it. Without the word, the church (especially the RCC) is a collection of dusty old opinionated men.
 

ResidentAlien

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Apr 21, 2021
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The ironic thing about this is 99.9% of Catholics would tell you they worship Jesus. But what Jesus do they worship? It's not the risen Jesus we all know and love, but the one still hanging on the cross and suffering each and every day. :unsure:
 

Mark47Oz

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Jun 4, 2021
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The ironic thing about this is 99.9% of Catholics would tell you they worship Jesus. But what Jesus do they worship? It's not the risen Jesus we all know and love, but the one still hanging on the cross and suffering each and every day. :unsure:
It's the same Jesus, there is only one.

Catholics show Jesus on the cross to remind themselves of the ultimate price he paid so we could all be saved. Our profession of faith states 'Jesus died, was buried and on the third day, he rose again' So we definitely 100% believe in his resurrection too. Without his resurrection, he'd just be another religious agitator like the Jews accused him to be.
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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Peter's role as the rock was simply to safeguard and proliferate those teachings. He is the only the head of the mundane human organisation.
My brother, Holy Spirit is to proliferare, not human. Human physically die, not Omni present, Holy Spirit Omni present.
How one can protect something if he isn't omnipresent and powerfull

Only God does.
 

Mark47Oz

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Jun 4, 2021
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My brother, Holy Spirit is to proliferare, not human. Human physically die, not Omni present, Holy Spirit Omni present.
How one can protect something if he isn't omnipresent and powerfull

Only God does.[/QUOTEa
My brother, Holy Spirit is to proliferare, not human. Human physically die, not Omni present, Holy Spirit Omni present.
How one can protect something if he isn't omnipresent and powerfull

Only God does.
Agreed.

But correct me if I'm wrong, the Holy Spirit has never built a single church building or printed a single Bible without the help of the hands of man.
 

Mark47Oz

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Jun 4, 2021
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My brother, Holy Spirit is to proliferare, not human. Human physically die, not Omni present, Holy Spirit Omni present.
How one can protect something if he isn't omnipresent and powerfull

Only God does.
Agreed.

But correct me if I'm wrong, the Holy Spirit has never built a single church building or printed a single Bible without the help of the hands of man

Sorry, I'm replying from my phone and I messed up the reply in the last post
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Agreed.

But correct me if I'm wrong, the Holy Spirit has never built a single church building or printed a single Bible without the help of the hands of man

Sorry, I'm replying from my phone and I messed up the reply in the last post
Holy Spirit use human to preach the Gospel, but Holy Spirit some time preach directly through visions and dream.

Not man help Holy Spirit, but Holy Spirit help a man
 

Mark47Oz

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Jun 4, 2021
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Holy Spirit use human to preach the Gospel, but Holy Spirit some time preach directly through visions and dream.

Not man help Holy Spirit, but Holy Spirit help a man
And the Holy Spirit helps men to organise mundane things. And organise grouping of talents and resources. And yes, there are chosen leaders among them. If this were not the case then there would be no churches, no Bibles, no pastor, no Bishop. And that is how Peter is the rock. He was the first leader, given the role by Jesus. And he was of course guided buy the holy spirit after the miracle at Pentecost.

As I said earlier, Peter is the foundation stone of the practical side of the faith itself, not the saviour, Holy Spirit or the Father in any way shape or form.
 

PC123

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Jun 22, 2020
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Australia
As the title says: do catholics worship God or the pope?

Do they allow the pope to come between them and God?
They obviously worship God...

Its like asking do Protestants worship God or Luther?

A silly question to say the least...