Do Jews have salvation?

[PennEd]

A self-described atheist may have lived a life full of the love of Christ in their heart without calling it that by name.

You cannot live a life “full of the love of Christ “ without acknowledging who He is, and what He has done, and been born again.

Hebrews 11:6
King James Version

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[PennEd]

It is possible that some that call themselves "atheist" will have the opportunity to turn to Christ after their life in the body is finished.

No it’s not possible.

Hebrews 9:27
New King James Version

27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,


Please show Scripture that supports a second chance after death.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Of course they're not saved, unless they believe in Jesus. If they're saved otherwise, why did Paul risk his neck so many times preaching to them.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Do Jews have salvation?

At the present time salvation is offered to all, both Jews and Gentiles. But ONLY THOSE WHO OBEY THE GOSPEL are saved.

 

[Jocund]

No it’s not possible.

Hebrews 9:27
New King James Version

27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,


Please show Scripture that supports a second chance after death.

The judgement takes place on judgement day. Please show the scripture that says the judgement occurs before judgement day.

 

[Jocund]

You cannot live a life “full of the love of Christ “ without acknowledging who He is, and what He has done, and been born again.

Hebrews 11:6
King James Version

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Are dead babies saved or destined for the Lake of Fire?

The content of the heart is what matters, not the words on lips. We are saved by grace.

 

[DeanM]

Are dead babies saved or destined for the Lake of Fire?

The content of the heart is what matters, not the words on lips. We are saved by grace.

Ridiculous and scripture speaks to everything you deny. What religion do you follow? I dont expect an answer but the question stands.

 

[PennEd]

The judgement takes place on judgement day. Please show the scripture that says the judgement occurs before judgement day.

What are you talking about? I just posted the Scripture that says people die, and then they are judged.

Where is the Scripture that says someone gets a second chance after death?

 

[PennEd]

Are dead babies saved or destined for the Lake of Fire?

The content of the heart is what matters, not the words on lips. We are saved by grace.

Again. Nonsensical to the point.

As for children, there are several passages that clinch it for me that they are indeed saved.

I particularly like this one:
Romans 7:9
“For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.”
King James Version (KJV)

Although I wouldn’t presume to to say exactly what the age of accountability is:

 

[Jocund]

Yeah, don't know about the question the OP asked, what the reasoning was. But no one picked up on this comment? An atheist isn't rejecting God?

Interestingly, the scholar I referenced was an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi named Abraham Isaac Kook.

"Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook, first Chief Rabbi of the Jewish community in Palestine, held that atheists were not actually denying God: rather, they were denying one of man's many images of God. Since any man-made image of God can be considered an idol, Kook held that, in practice, one could consider atheists as helping true religion burn away false images of God, thus in the end serving the purpose of true monotheism.[4]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_and_religion#Judaism

That's not what the Bible says. Nor does it say one can be saved after they have died. In fact it says the opposite.

Your opinion in other threads seems to be that there is a hyper-grace that exists for Jews. But at the same time you say that atheists are destined not to be saved. What about Jewish atheists? Which rule applies in your worldview?

Show me the passage that says judgement happens before judgement day. You say much, but cite little.

 

[Jocund]

What are you talking about? I just posted the Scripture that says people die, and then they are judged.

Why would you assume that the judgement after death takes place immediately after death? The day of judgement is described later in scripture. There is no passage that states that one's fate is sealed into damnation at death.

Where is the Scripture that says someone gets a second chance after death?

I present salvation after death only as consistent with scripture. There is no scripture that says it is necessarily true, and no scripture to say it is necessarily false. I stated that it was a possibility. You have stated it is not possible. Please demonstrate with scripture how salvation after death is not possible.

 

[Nehemiah6]

There is no passage that states that one's fate is sealed into damnation at death.

Have you not read about the Rich Man and Lazarus? One's fate is sealed before death. Either damnation or salvation.

 

[Jocund]

Again. Nonsensical to the point.

As for children, there are several passages that clinch it for me that they are indeed saved.

I particularly like this one:
Romans 7:9
“For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.”
King James Version (KJV)

The whole context:

"But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. [...] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." - Romans 7:8-11;24-25

You present the idea of grace to those that are young. Do the commandments not apply to young people? Or is it by grace that they are saved?

Although I wouldn’t presume to to say exactly what the age of accountability is:

Confirmation is often considered the Christian age of accountability. A bar/bat mitzvah in modern Orthodox Judaism is considered the age of accountability.

 

[DeanM]

Have you not read about the Rich Man and Lazarus? One's fate is sealed before death. Either damnation or salvation.

Just looked at that myself. Luke 16:19 - 31

 

[Jocund]

Have you not read about the Rich Man and Lazarus? One's fate is sealed before death. Either damnation or salvation.

The rich man entered Hades. There is nothing to say with certainty that the rich man would enter the Lake of Fire.

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." - Revelation 20:13-15 KJV

 

[PennEd]

Why would you assume that the judgement after death takes place immediately after death? The day of judgement is described later in scripture. There is no passage that states that one's fate is sealed into damnation at death.

The passage makes clear that after death a person's life will be judged. WHEN, that judgement happens after death is irrelevant.

You admit that NOWHERE in Scripture does it say people have a second chance after death, and somehow incredulously use the fact that it's not there as PROOF that it's possible!

Perhaps Jesus' Words will have an effect
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”

The rich man did not argue a second chance with Abraham. He knew it was over for HIM. He only sought to possibly save his STILL LIVING brothers.
on you.

Luke 16:

 

[PennEd]

You present the idea of grace to those that are young. Do the commandments not apply to young people? Or is it by grace that they are saved?

Of course they are saved by Grace. God's grace extends to children. Paul was alive before he was held accountable as an adult who understood the Law.

King David said he would be with his infant son that died.

 

[Jocund]

The passage makes clear that after death a person's life will be judged. WHEN, that judgement happens after death is irrelevant.

You are inserting a context which is not shown in the text. Judgement at the moment of death is not demonstrated in scripture. Yes, judgement happens after death, but it specifically happens on the Day of Judgement which is after everyone in Hades is pulled out. Nowhere does scripture say that judgement happens at the moment of death, and nowhere does it say that ending up in Hades is a judgement in itself (as opposed to a spiritual condition).

"For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear." - Mark 4:28 KJV

Clearly, Mark 4:28 doesn't mean that the moment an ear forms that it is immediately full of corn. Why would you assume that the judgement after death means that it is immediately after death?

The passage makes clear that after death a person's life will be judged. WHEN, that judgement happens after death is irrelevant.

You admit that NOWHERE in Scripture does it say people have a second chance after death, and somehow incredulously use the fact that it's not there as PROOF that it's possible!

Scripture also doesn't call you specifically by name to say that you are saved. Is the absence of your real name evidence that you are not saved? You are free to interpret however you like, but you would be incorrect to say that salvation after death is inconsistent with scripture.

Perhaps Jesus' Words will have an effect
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”

Jesus also went to hell (Hades):

"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." - Acts 2:31 KJV

It's a common misconception that Hades and the Lake of Fire are the same thing. No one stays in Hades forever.

The rich man did not argue a second chance with Abraham. He knew it was over for HIM. He only sought to possibly save his STILL LIVING brothers.

To save his brothers from the torment of Hades, yes. This has no certain relationship with salvation on the day of Judgement. The rich man was committed to Hades, but nowhere does it say that he was doomed to the Lake of Fire. There is an important distinction between the two.

For anyone that is saved, there is a purification process. This requires burning away the parts of us that are not in Christ (pruning the branches without spiritual fruit). Some people in death sleep, some people in death stay awake in a good state, and others stay awake in a bad state. On the day of judgement comes the judgement. No sooner.

 

[DeanM]

Catholic and Jewish doctrine with some new age nonsense thrown in.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The rich man entered Hades. There is nothing to say with certainty that the rich man would enter the Lake of Fire.

You have got to be kidding! Are you seriously looking for an explicit verse to say what you want it to say? Or is this more wishful thinking?