Do Jews have salvation?

[Nehemiah6]

Judgement at the moment of death is not demonstrated in scripture.

Not at the "moment" of death, but prior to death. By the moment of death, it is already too late. It appears that someone has been seriously misleading you in something so basic.

 

[Jocund]

Not at the "moment" of death, but prior to death. By the moment of death, it is already too late. It appears that someone has been seriously misleading you in something so basic.

This is a third perspective. Are there passages to support this?

 

[Jocund]

You have got to be kidding! Are you seriously looking for an explicit verse to say what you want it to say? Or is this more wishful thinking?

Hades is a place of torment. What is stopping someone from turning to Christ while in the place of torment? The rich man parable is a warning about what could land you in Hades. It isn't a parable warning you about what can land you in the Lake of Fire. To say otherwise is to make assumptions beyond what the scripture is saying.

 

[Jocund]

Of course they're not saved, unless they believe in Jesus. If they're saved otherwise, why did Paul risk his neck so many times preaching to them.

There is more than just salvation at stake. The more of you that is Christ, the more of yourself you that may be saved. The reward, the crown of victory, there are many reasons to not just stop at the "saved" finish line. There is a hierarchy in New Jerusalem.

 

[Gideon300]

Do Jews have salvation?
Discuss.

Salvation is not automatic for anyone. The Bible is crystal clear on that. The first believers were Jews. Why would God have sent Peter and the apostles to preach to them if they were already saved?

 

[Gideon300]

All who are saved are Jew by translation. Learn this and be content with it.

Funny, my Bible says that there are no longer Jews or Gentiles. All one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28.

 

[JaumeJ]

Funny, my Bible says that there are no longer Jews or Gentiles. All one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28.

Pay attention to the posts, by translation. Find out what this means. Our Father does not think this funny or odd.

People do not learn the meaning, sometimes full translation, of certain words due to the anti-Semitism of ages. This too may be regarded das "funny" by some, but it all began while Yeshua was yet physically with us.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This is a third perspective. Are there passages to support this?

It seems like you want explicit passages to support your ideas. That's not how it works. Take this passage for example (Acts 28:25-27):

25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, 26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

There is no mention of Hades or Hell or the Lake of Fire. But anyone with an ounce of Gospel knowledge will know that those who rejected the Gospel and rejected Christ -- as shown above -- condemned themselves to Hell.

 

[HatedForNoReason]

Do Jews have salvation?
Discuss.

Only God's elects will have salvation.
After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, watching sports (violence like football, covet and idols), novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list.

1 John 2:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Now I will be preaching about how to receive the Holy Spirit and be 100% going to Heaven. First, it’s only by the grace of God that he gives you faith in Jesus Christ in order to give up your sins. It’s only by the grace of God that he leads you to pray to him to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or any sinful desires. When you pray to God to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or sinful desires (Romans 6:6-7 and Galatians 5:24), Satan will intervene and extremely tempt you in watching the TV. But if it’s God’s will and if you are one of God’s elects, you will overcome it and God will destroy all your evil desires of watching TV. After God has destroyed all your evil desires of watching TV and if you are one of God’s elects, you receive the joy of the Holy Spirit for a short amount of time. After the joy wears off, all existence of boredom no longer exists and you no longer burn out (psychology) anymore. That is when you have received the Holy Spirit.

Then it’s by the grace of God that he forgives you of your sins, as you confess and repent of your sins throughout your life which is called sanctification. After you have received the Holy Spirit and have confessed and repented of any known sins that you have done, then you pray to God to get rid of all evil spirits out of you.

Say “In the name of Jesus Christ I bind and cast out all evil spirits out of me.” Then automatically your mouth will open and you will exhale all those evil spirits out of you.

But you can watch Christian stuff that don’t have sins (Like sermons) because that helps you grow more mature as a Christian spiritually and for more information about this sermon, go to spreadthegospel59.wordpress.com then go to The short version of “To be free from sin (sin deceives and hurts everyone) and how do we receive the Holy Spirit?”
Why does God hate sin? | GotQuestions.org What does it mean that “you were bought with a price” (1 Corinthians 6:20; 7:23)? | GotQuestions.org Sin Will Never Make You Happy (What does the Bible say about hypocrisy? | GotQuestions.org)

Gives thanks to God, that you are free from sin (sin deceives=never satisfied no matter how many times you do it, gives pain, makes you guilty, go from bad to worse) if you are one of God’s elect, to fight off self-pity is to give thanks to God for everything. What does the Bible say about self-pity? | GotQuestions.org Is eternal security a “license” to sin? | GotQuestions.org The reason why am hated for no reason since I were physically born and never fit in is because am one of God’s elects. (John 15:18-19)

Read James 4:4, Proverbs 29:27, 2 Corinthians 6:14-17.

Just so you know Jesus had to carry all of God’s elects sins and endure the punishment for God’s elects sins which is Hellfire spiritually, which is extreme love and mercy. Go to the bottom website, for better explanation. https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/jesus-eternal-punishment-hours/

 

[soberxp]

Are dead babies saved or destined for the Lake of Fire?

The content of the heart is what matters, not the words on lips. We are saved by grace.

Why not？
because Jesus Baptize us with water and fire, so what is the fire ?

 

[Jocund]

It seems like you want explicit passages to support your ideas. That's not how it works. Take this passage for example (Acts 28:25-27):

25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, 26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

There is no mention of Hades or Hell or the Lake of Fire. But anyone with an ounce of Gospel knowledge will know that those who rejected the Gospel and rejected Christ -- as shown above -- condemned themselves to Hell.

Condemned to a term in Hades, I agree with that. But the Lake of Fire? It's not so simple. Consider this: what is preventing the rich man from voicing that Jesus is Lord and accepting Him in his heart?

"If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 10:9 KJV

 

[Unearthed]

Consider this: what is preventing the rich man from voicing that Jesus is Lord and accepting Him in his heart?

Good question and I would like to know your answer.

 

[Jocund]

Ridiculous and scripture speaks to everything you deny. What religion do you follow? I dont expect an answer but the question stands.

If scripture speaks to it, show me the scripture. I stand by scripture. What have I denied apart from the assumptions of others?

 

[Jocund]

Catholic and Jewish doctrine with some new age nonsense thrown in.

I speak only to scripture. I don't know what mix of fallible doctrine you hold to. Cast your assumption of scripture aside, look at scripture for what it is, and not by the lens of a traditional interpretation as the Pharisees did in their time. There are common misconceptions about what scripture actually says. The concept of hell is one of those common misconceptions.

 

[Jocund]

Jesus Baptize us with water and fire, so what is the fire ?

An interpretation I find compelling: the baptism by fire is the refining fire we experience after death (perhaps even on or after judgement day) as part of the purification process where the unfruitful parts of us are burned away.

 

[DeanM]

An interpretation I find compelling: the baptism by fire is the refining fire we experience after death (perhaps even on or after judgement day) as part of the purification process where the unfruitful parts of us are burned away.

Purgatory

 

[Lanolin]

first you have to believe, then you can be saved. Anyone can be saved if they believe.
Jesus went to save the Jews first because He actually was Jewish. You go to your family first. Whether they believed Him or not is up to them.

 

[Jocund]

Purgatory

At death... some sleep, some stay awake in a good state, some stay awake in a bad state. Hades is a place where the dead may go. It isn't necessarily a purgatory or place of purification (though it could be). The concept of salvation after death is not that all dead people will certainly be saved, only that the opportunity for salvation continues beyond the first death.

Salvation is not guaranteed in that model of salvation after death. This differs from the Roman Catholic concept of purgatory where only the saved may enter.

You could tie salvation after death with a form of purgatory, but it isn't necessary.

 

[PennEd]

An interpretation I find compelling: the baptism by fire is the refining fire we experience after death (perhaps even on or after judgement day) as part of the purification process where the unfruitful parts of us are burned away.

Our works are what is tested by fire.

The word Baptizmo means:
Definition

1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk

As for the Baptism by fire, I tend to believe you don't want any part of that.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”


So SOME are going to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit and SOME are going to be "baptizmoed" into the Lake of Fire! Like the brood of vipers.

 

[Jocund]

Our works are what is tested by fire.

The word Baptizmo means:
Definition

1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk

As for the Baptism by fire, I tend to believe you don't want any part of that.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”


So SOME are going to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit and SOME are going to be "baptizmoed" into the Lake of Fire! Like the brood of vipers.

That's not a very convincing differentiation of "baptism" by Holy Spirit and "baptism" by fire. It's the same word. You could argue the context is different. That's fine. Fire = LoF is a valid interpretation. Nothing wrong with that interpretation but it isn't the only valid interpretation. There is a reason that "baptism by fire" has become an idiom for a rite of passage. There are other passages that allude to fire used in purification, not just of works.

E.g. "And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:" - Isaiah 1:25 KJV

There is a lot of imagery of people being the product of their works.