Do our churches include man made dogma?

[MattforJesus]

Of course the churches today have man-made dogmas.

The assemblies of teh time of Paul were not separate dogmas and doctrines, they were the same "lady" all in agreement ……….. today they are denominations vying with each other for popularity and profit.

It made me think of this.

The world is motivated by selfishness, and arrogance, and a need to exalt themselves above each other.

And we know there is hypocrites that claim Christ, which we might from time to time be a hypocrite doing sin, but if we have the right perspective of the truth, we let it go and move on, and do not say we are right with God if we sin, which some think they are alright.

The world competes with each other to exalt themselves and say we are better, and have the right way.

The NBA at the start of the season, and many teams hoping that this could be the year that they could take the championship, and if they do they say out of all the teams that played we are the winners, we are number 1, and they rejoice in it with much gladness.

That is the way some people that claim Christ seem to act, as if they like that there are different divisions, and denominations, so that they can say out of all the denominations that say we have the truth, we are the ones with the truth, we are the winners, we are number 1, and they rejoice in it with much gladness.

It seems like that to me that they like the divisions so that they can say we have the truth, and you do not, in an arrogant fashion.

For how do you explain why they will not give heed to scriptures that are plain to understand, but stick to their denomination and their interpretation.

Or maybe they will not give heed to scriptures that are plain, and stick to their denomination, because they can't stand the fact that they might of been stupid enough to believe in an interpretation that is not correct, being a blow to their ego.

 

[PyongPing]

anyone who preaches anything but salvation through faith and belief in Christ is a false teacher.

I know all the judeaizer tricks- Jesus was crucified on wed. , rose on the Sabbath. " we keep all the words of God ". the catholic church invented sun. worship.

all these are just tricks and lies. just your " list " of scripture you made earlier.

Read:

"... The first definite appearance of the Wednesday-Saturday belief in Sabbatarian sources occurred in 1724. In that year George Carlow, a British Seventh Day Baptist ..." - http://www.giveshare.org/HolyDay/satreshistory.html​

Here is that Book, by George Carlow - https://archive.org/details/defenseofsabbath00carl

"... So your Pentecost opinion is utterly overthrown with that, for Christ's death was not on the sixth day. The fifteenth day of the first month Nisan, when Christ was crucified and died, fell that year on the fourth day of the week, i.e. Wednesday, at the end of which day our blessed Jesus was buried, from which time to the end of the seventh-day Sabbath was three days and three nights, the term of time that our Lord foretold he should lie in the grave. Matt. 12:40. So that there were two days between the day of Jesus' death and the seventh-day Sabbath, and one day between that high Sabbath and the seventh-day Sabbath. ..." - Truth Defended: Or, Observations on Mr. Ward's Expositary [sic] Discourses, from the 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th Verses of the 20th Chapter of Exodus, Concerning the Sabbath. By George Carlow, page 109 - https://archive.org/stream/defenseofsabbath00carl#page/109/mode/1up/​

George Carlow was a seventh-day Baptist, attempting (incorrectly) to prove the significance of the 7th day the sabbath (it is significant, but has no help from this incorrect position). He assumes the wrong year, and thus lands on the wrong date, among other incorrect things.

He incorrectly equates the phrase "in the heart of the earth" to being only to the time Jesus was to "in the grave", and only cited a single reference of Matthew 12:40. That is building a doctrine on a single verse, and we are warning in scripture to not to do that, as you need it in the mouth of two or three witnesses in every case, being line upon line, spiritual with spiritual. Not merely a single peg, which may be spun in any direction outside of its proper contexts.

He assumes several other things which are false, as may be demonstrated in reviewing my previous post.

Therefore, you are basing your argument on a failed 18th century seventh-day baptist argument.

 

[PyongPing]

This is an obvious attempt to rebuke....but copying and pasting scriptures is not going to help your cause. Your attitude has already been put on display for the whole thread to read. Christ still loves you though

Zec_7:11 But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.

Psa_7:9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

 

[gb9]

Read:

"... The first definite appearance of the Wednesday-Saturday belief in Sabbatarian sources occurred in 1724. In that year George Carlow, a British Seventh Day Baptist ..." - http://www.giveshare.org/HolyDay/satreshistory.html​

Here is that Book, by George Carlow - https://archive.org/details/defenseofsabbath00carl

"... So your Pentecost opinion is utterly overthrown with that, for Christ's death was not on the sixth day. The fifteenth day of the first month Nisan, when Christ was crucified and died, fell that year on the fourth day of the week, i.e. Wednesday, at the end of which day our blessed Jesus was buried, from which time to the end of the seventh-day Sabbath was three days and three nights, the term of time that our Lord foretold he should lie in the grave. Matt. 12:40. So that there were two days between the day of Jesus' death and the seventh-day Sabbath, and one day between that high Sabbath and the seventh-day Sabbath. ..." - Truth Defended: Or, Observations on Mr. Ward's Expositary [sic] Discourses, from the 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th Verses of the 20th Chapter of Exodus, Concerning the Sabbath. By George Carlow, page 109 - https://archive.org/stream/defenseofsabbath00carl#page/109/mode/1up/​

George Carlow was a seventh-day Baptist, attempting (incorrectly) to prove the significance of the 7th day the sabbath (it is significant, but has no help from this incorrect position). He assumes the wrong year, and thus lands on the wrong date, among other incorrect things.

He incorrectly equates the phrase "in the heart of the earth" to being only to the time Jesus was to "in the grave", and only cited a single reference of Matthew 12:40. That is building a doctrine on a single verse, and we are warning in scripture to not to do that, as you need it in the mouth of two or three witnesses in every case, being line upon line, spiritual with spiritual. Not merely a single peg, which may be spun in any direction outside of its proper contexts.

He assumes several other things which are false, as may be demonstrated in reviewing my previous post.

Therefore, you are basing your argument on a failed 18th century seventh-day baptist argument.

well, you guys rely on ellen white, who fell, hit her head , said she was visited by an angel, and started the seventh day Adventist church.

and, I could care less about what some dude said. here, once again, is the truth- Jesus was crucified on thur, ( 1 ) in the grave through the Sabbath ( 2 ), Sabbath ended at sundown , rose overnight ( 3 ), and then , at dawn on the first day of the week, the women came to the tomb, with Jesus having risen, and departed.
no figuring and assumption needed.

 

[oldethennew]

all 'man-made' churches=dogma=personal interpretation is exactly what it is, 'man-made'= 'worldly'...

this is where Godly Discernment comes into play if you belong and abide in the Body of Christ'...
it's a no-brainer, a done deal for the elect-chosen-called...

 

[PyongPing]

well, you guys rely on ellen white,

What are you talking about?

I provided scripture:

The sixth day, is the day on which Jesus was crucified (morning sacrifice, aka '9AM') and dies 6 hours later (evening sacrifice, aka '3PM'), not only in prophecy, but also in typology and historically. Jesus rested in the grave on the 7th day as at Creation, eternally adjoining Redemption to it, and rose upon the 'fist [day] of the week', before sunrise (I have a pretty good idea exactly when too, based upon scripture, but that is not really necessary).

[the 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy God]

Jesus at Lazarus' house in Bethany [Mt. Olivet] – [John 12:1]

[the first [day] of the week]

Jesus Triumphal Entry into Jerusalem, "the next day" from leaving Lazarus' house, Hosanna! - [John 12:12,13; Matthew 21:10; Mark 11:11], goes to the Temple, and after looking around, leaves, since it was close to evening back out unto Mt. Olivet.

[the second [day] of the week]

Jesus comes back, curses the fig tree, goes to the Temple, and cleanses the Temple for the Second [last] time of the Money Changers - [Matthew 21:12,13,17; Mark 11:12,15,16,17,19], and Jesus goes back out.

[the third [day] of the week]

Jesus comes back, the Fig tree is withered up from the roots, goes to the Temple, and has the final teachings to the Pharisees, etc - [Matthew 21:18,23; Mark 11:20,27].

This was the "two days" before the "Passover" - [Matthew 26:1-2; Mark 14:1; Luke 21:37-38, 22:1].

Jesus tells the Jewish nation, that their house is forever left desolate, no more fruit again - [Matthew 23:37-39; Luke 13:32-35].

Jesus said, that He still had to do "cures" and "cast out devils" "to day, tomorrow and the third day" and be done - [Luke 13:32,33]

Jesus had been "daily" in the Temple - [Matthew 26:55; Mark 14:49; Luke 19:47, 22:53; John 18:20]

[the fourth [day] of the week]

The "tomorrow" [Luke 13:32,33]

[the fifth [day] of the week]

The "Third Day" [Luke 13:32,33], being done.

[the sixth [day] of the week; preparation]

Gather twice as much, Christ Jesus the anti-typical Manna, Exodus 16:25,26

The "spices" "had been" [Mark 16;1] purchased sometime after the Crucifixion and before burial so that they could "prepare" [Luke 23:56] them to bring on the "first [day] of the week" [Luke 24:1], even as we see Joseph of Arimathaea doing for the linen - [Mark 14:46]

1st Evening Part - [Matthew 26:31,34; Mark 14:27,30]
1st Morning [Light] Part - [Matthew 27:21; Mark 15:1]

Abib/Nisan 14th; Christ Jesus our Passover is Sacrificed for us - [1 Corinthians 5:7],

[the 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy God]

Jesus remained in the Tomb all Sabbath - anti-type Manna - Exodus 16:29,30

The Disciples were keeping the Sabbath according to the Commandment - [Exodus 20:8-11; Luke 23:54,56]

2nd Evening and 2nd Morning Parts - [Matthew 27:58-66, 28:1; Mark 15:42-47; Luke 23:52-53,54; John 19:38-42]

Abib/Nisan 15th - Seasonal Feast Sabbath [First Day of Unleavened Bread, without corruption] - [Leviticus 23:5-8]

[the first [day] of the week]

Christ Jesus, preserved and Risen - Anti-type Manna - Exodus 16:32-34

3rd Evening and 3rd Morning Parts, Christ Risen and shown alive - [Matthew 28:1-10; Mark 16:2-20; Luke 24:1-29; John 20:1-23]

Abib/Nisan 16th; Christ the Firstfruits/Wavesheaf Offering, Anti-Type Resurrection - [1 Corinthians 15:20,23].

Jesus was walking with the disciples on the Road to Emmaus on the "first [day] of the week", as the day was closing out, being "the third day since these things" were done [Luke 24:21],

[the second [day] of the week]

Jesus was still walking with the two disciples on the Road to Emmaus as the first [day] of the week was closing, and it becomes Evening - [Luke 24:29,35, etc]

 

[p_rehbein]

Dogma, Denominational Teachings..........2 peas?

 

[gb9]

What are you talking about?

I provided scripture:

The sixth day, is the day on which Jesus was crucified (morning sacrifice, aka '9AM') and dies 6 hours later (evening sacrifice, aka '3PM'), not only in prophecy, but also in typology and historically. Jesus rested in the grave on the 7th day as at Creation, eternally adjoining Redemption to it, and rose upon the 'fist [day] of the week', before sunrise (I have a pretty good idea exactly when too, based upon scripture, but that is not really necessary).

[the 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy God]

Jesus at Lazarus' house in Bethany [Mt. Olivet] – [John 12:1]

[the first [day] of the week]

Jesus Triumphal Entry into Jerusalem, "the next day" from leaving Lazarus' house, Hosanna! - [John 12:12,13; Matthew 21:10; Mark 11:11], goes to the Temple, and after looking around, leaves, since it was close to evening back out unto Mt. Olivet.

[the second [day] of the week]

Jesus comes back, curses the fig tree, goes to the Temple, and cleanses the Temple for the Second [last] time of the Money Changers - [Matthew 21:12,13,17; Mark 11:12,15,16,17,19], and Jesus goes back out.

[the third [day] of the week]

Jesus comes back, the Fig tree is withered up from the roots, goes to the Temple, and has the final teachings to the Pharisees, etc - [Matthew 21:18,23; Mark 11:20,27].

This was the "two days" before the "Passover" - [Matthew 26:1-2; Mark 14:1; Luke 21:37-38, 22:1].

Jesus tells the Jewish nation, that their house is forever left desolate, no more fruit again - [Matthew 23:37-39; Luke 13:32-35].

Jesus said, that He still had to do "cures" and "cast out devils" "to day, tomorrow and the third day" and be done - [Luke 13:32,33]

Jesus had been "daily" in the Temple - [Matthew 26:55; Mark 14:49; Luke 19:47, 22:53; John 18:20]

[the fourth [day] of the week]

The "tomorrow" [Luke 13:32,33]

[the fifth [day] of the week]

The "Third Day" [Luke 13:32,33], being done.

[the sixth [day] of the week; preparation]

Gather twice as much, Christ Jesus the anti-typical Manna, Exodus 16:25,26

The "spices" "had been" [Mark 16;1] purchased sometime after the Crucifixion and before burial so that they could "prepare" [Luke 23:56] them to bring on the "first [day] of the week" [Luke 24:1], even as we see Joseph of Arimathaea doing for the linen - [Mark 14:46]

1st Evening Part - [Matthew 26:31,34; Mark 14:27,30]
1st Morning [Light] Part - [Matthew 27:21; Mark 15:1]

Abib/Nisan 14th; Christ Jesus our Passover is Sacrificed for us - [1 Corinthians 5:7],

[the 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy God]

Jesus remained in the Tomb all Sabbath - anti-type Manna - Exodus 16:29,30

The Disciples were keeping the Sabbath according to the Commandment - [Exodus 20:8-11; Luke 23:54,56]

2nd Evening and 2nd Morning Parts - [Matthew 27:58-66, 28:1; Mark 15:42-47; Luke 23:52-53,54; John 19:38-42]

Abib/Nisan 15th - Seasonal Feast Sabbath [First Day of Unleavened Bread, without corruption] - [Leviticus 23:5-8]

[the first [day] of the week]

Christ Jesus, preserved and Risen - Anti-type Manna - Exodus 16:32-34

3rd Evening and 3rd Morning Parts, Christ Risen and shown alive - [Matthew 28:1-10; Mark 16:2-20; Luke 24:1-29; John 20:1-23]

Abib/Nisan 16th; Christ the Firstfruits/Wavesheaf Offering, Anti-Type Resurrection - [1 Corinthians 15:20,23].

Jesus was walking with the disciples on the Road to Emmaus on the "first [day] of the week", as the day was closing out, being "the third day since these things" were done [Luke 24:21],

[the second [day] of the week]

Jesus was still walking with the two disciples on the Road to Emmaus as the first [day] of the week was closing, and it becomes Evening - [Luke 24:29,35, etc]

nice propaganda. but, as I said, the jews counted days from twilight till twilight. all this symbolism is just to point to the lie that Jesus rose on the Sabbath, thus attaching the jewish Sabbath to salvation.

 

[NayborBear]

Right on!!! So much time has gone by since Moses listened to God and wrote what God said, and the time of Jesus that we have a hard time understanding what they meant by what they said. We need accurate history of those times as well as a thorough knowledge of scripture.

The only reason a "thorough knowledge of scripture" is needed, is because "The Way", has been lost!
And many "endeavors", sometimes very strenuous endeavors, are more like spinning your car tires, making a lot of noise and tire smoke! For the little, if any "profit", one gets out of all that "energy" spent!

Let's "analyze" what Jesus has to say about the Kingdom of God.
Luke 18:
16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

It's not so much what a little child sees, that is important, then what a little child doesn't see, that makes all the difference! And, this is what Jesus is/was referring to.

Many people and teachers, will say that "tis innocence", is how they interpret Jesus' "teaching." And, this is true! I guess, rather depending on how one defines "innocence."

One thing a little child does not see, is Material Empiricism! Nor, does a little child see, nor actually, even care about the AFFAIRS of MEN!

There are those who say? "Yeah?!" "Great!" THAT, and 2 bucks (these days, if not more ) "Will get you a cup of coffee, in the REAL world!

In "this?" the "real world?" We, all of us walking around on 2 feet, and breathing, are RICH! Some, more then others. But, all rich!
Matthew 19
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.