Do those condemned to hell suffer forever?

[Blain]

It is safe to assume that the NT folks did not explain clearly enough to obviate discussion on CC about how eternal torment jibes with omnilove, which is why some attempt to do so by applying God-given reasoning ability aka the gift of logic to discern this.

logic huh? any time I see logic being used with God's word it never seems to pan out well but I would say you explained it pretty well

 

[PaulThomson]

So is it safe to assume that eternal is not used in any translation of torment or is it just greek

If eternal means timeless, eternal does not occur in the Greek, Hebrew or Chaldee texts. If eternal torment means unending torment, that does not occur in the Greek, Hebrew or Chaldee texts. Of the terms i cited, the most all encompassing one would be "into the ages of the ages". And, if that means unending, only the beast, false prophet and satan are said to be tormented that long. However, if the prophecy is a warning that this is the consequence if the devil, false prophet and beast choose to continue in their rebellion, and not a decree that they will do so, even these three may be able to be delivered if they repent at some stage. God's prophecies are often warnings that unless there is a change of heart these will be the consequences. Many "prophecies" don't happen because the subjects of the prophecies change course.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Hell must be a really horrible place that we can't even imagine.The rich man wanted just a smidge of rest when he asked Abraham to send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water so that he may cool his tongue.
Quenching thirst is a form of rest.We take a lot of this stuff for granted.Sleep is another form of rest.We recharge ourselves with sleep.
Rest from stress is another.Even if whatever is stressing your mind goes away for just one second,that is one second of rest.
Imagine all that taken away from you.And those mentioned forms of rest is just the tip of the ice burg that happens in our daily lives.

 

[Blain]

Hell must be a really horrible place that we can't even imagine.The rich man wanted just a smidge of rest when he asked Abraham to send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water so that he may cool his tongue.
Quenching thirst is a form of rest.We take a lot of this stuff for granted.Sleep is another form of rest.We recharge ourselves with sleep.
Rest from stress is another.Even if whatever is stressing your mind goes away for just one second,that is one second of rest.
Imagine all that taken away from you.And those mentioned forms of rest is just the tip of the ice burg that happens in our daily lives.

trust me it is I have been there before that thirst is intense and the heat is so bad your shirt is glued to your skin from sweat I saw the lake of fire I saw the tormented souls and to be honest I am glad their torment is not eternal because there was a man there I met who was actually repentant I have prayed for God to have mercy on him and end his torment many times.

But that is how I gained my passion for lost souls because I got to see first hand their punishment I mean some really messed up things went down in that place there was a cage that hung above the lake of fire and at a random time this cage would drop people in the lake and hold them there pull them back up and start over again

I saw flesh being stretched and pulled right from the bones with metal hooks I saw demons attacking people even the ground itself would cause severe pain on people who were forced to walk endlessly no rest on ground that would either burn their feet or spikes would shoot up and stab them

 

[GWH]

logic huh? any time I see logic being used with God's word it never seems to pan out well but I would say you explained it pretty well

Thanks. We should always check logic with GW when possible, of course, and
not think our insights are infallible, even if inspired by the HS.
And even our checking with GW employs the logic of language,
so our interpretations are not infallible either.

 

[Blain]

Thanks. We should always check logic with GW when possible, of course, and
not think our insights are infallible, even if inspired by the HS.
And even our checking with GW employs the logic of language,
so our interpretations are not infallible either.

there is certainly logic with God's word after all he is the author of logic the kind of logic I have seen that when applied with God's word creates doctrines that stray from what the scripture actually says. true enough our interpretations can make his word say what we want but many who I have seen use their logic to them is infallible this is where error sets in because unless we understand that we won't always be right in our logic and are willing to let go of certain beliefs we cannot use logic correctly with God's word

To me it is only logical that I may be wrong in certain things even with the holy spirit I tend to misunderstand or interpret incorrectly this is a healthy mind set to have because it allows room for growth

 

[GWH]

there is certainly logic with God's word after all he is the author of logic the kind of logic I have seen that when applied with God's word creates doctrines that stray from what the scripture actually says. true enough our interpretations can make his word say what we want but many who I have seen use their logic to them is infallible this is where error sets in because unless we understand that we won't always be right in our logic and are willing to let go of certain beliefs we cannot use logic correctly with God's word

To me it is only logical that I may be wrong in certain things even with the holy spirit I tend to misunderstand or interpret incorrectly this is a healthy mind set to have because it allows room for growth

It certainly is and you have a healthy mind set, which Jesus affirmed in the beatitude, "Blessed are the poor in spirit" [humble/teachable] and the opposite of which he condemned in MT 13:14-15 and Paul did too in ACTS 28:26-27.

All of the gifts may be used for godly purposes or for evil.
There is right reasoning/logic and false reasoning or illogic.
There are those who strive for spiritual unity via agreement about the Gospel creed,
(seeking to answer the prayer of Jesus in JN 17:20-23),
and there are some hellbent on disagreeing, arguing, quarrelling, etc. about secondary issues,
to whom Scriptures such as TIT 1:10-16 & 3:1-11 apply.

 

[Blain]

It certainly is and you have a healthy mind set, which Jesus affirmed in the beatitude, "Blessed are the poor in spirit" [humble/teachable] and the opposite of which he condemned in MT 13:14-15 and Paul did too in ACTS 28:26-27.

All of the gifts may be used for godly purposes or for evil.
There is right reasoning/logic and false reasoning or illogic.
There are those who strive for spiritual unity via agreement about the Gospel creed,
(seeking to answer the prayer of Jesus in JN 17:20-23),
and there are some hellbent on disagreeing, arguing, quarrelling, etc. about secondary issues,
to whom Scriptures such as TIT 1:10-16 & 3:1-11 apply.

Something I always say is we need less teachers more students. I rather like the idea of a teacher and a student a good teacher is able to make an impact on the student because they have a way in which their words reach the student that makes for a good preacher if you think about it a student realizes they have a lot to learn and will be wrong at times in what they understand

You know you are a good student of the word when you understand these things and only the humble in heart can really hear our teacher the holy spirit but he is not a loud teacher he is gentle and quiet you have to really try to listen to hear him

I was told I need to find a good teacher by another user we were in a debate and disagreeing this however was a user who thought jis logic to be superior but if I needed a teacher I have one this is why the analogy of a student and teacher sits so well with me because that is how it is with me and the holy spirit

 

[GWH]

Hell must be a really horrible place that we can't even imagine.The rich man wanted just a smidge of rest when he asked Abraham to send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water so that he may cool his tongue.
Quenching thirst is a form of rest.We take a lot of this stuff for granted.Sleep is another form of rest.We recharge ourselves with sleep.
Rest from stress is another.Even if whatever is stressing your mind goes away for just one second,that is one second of rest.
Imagine all that taken away from you.And those mentioned forms of rest is just the tip of the ice burg that happens in our daily lives.

Hell is indeed horrible, but we should understand that it is consistent with God's love. The Bible teaches that God is justness or righteousness (RM 3:25-26, 9:14, 2THS 1:6). This doctrine is called theodicy. It means that we should be careful lest our explanations of God’s will seem unloving or unfair. Atheists have a negative or evil conception of God, which may be caused or reinforced by the words and deeds of those who claim to be theists (RM 2:24, 2PT 2:2). Rather than reject a caricature of God, an atheist should imagine the most perfect, loving and just God that he/she can, and choose to disbelieve in that benevolent Being, if good reason to do so can be found. God is NOT demonic!

What a person believes about the moral attributes of God affects how he or she interprets God’s Word in the Bible, which is called “hermeneutics”. A Scripture-based hermeneutic begins by believing that a person should triangulate from two key NT teachings in order to arrive at a correct understanding of problematic OT statements:

First, God loves and wants to save everyone (1TM 2:3-4, ACTS 17:26-28); Christ died to show God’s love and the possible salvation of all (RM 5:6-8) including His enemies (ungodly, atheist, anti-Christ).

Second, God is just (2THS 1:6a, cf. RM 3:25-26 & 9:14, DT 32:4, PS 36:6, LK 11:42, RV 15:3). All explanations of reality and interpretations of Scripture should conform to this certitude: “The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.” (PS 145:17) The Judge is just. It would be better not to attempt an explanation of God’s Word than to state one that impugns God’s justice and love for all people (JL 2:13, JN 3:16).

Even the wrath of God is an expression of His love. Hebrews 12:4-11 offers the clue for harmonizing these two themes. This passage indicates that divine wrath is intended as discipline: to teach people to repent of their hatefulness or faithlessness (PR 3:12, IS 33:14-15 RV 3:19) before they die, after which divine wrath will be experienced justly without the opportunity for repentance.

If a righteous explanation cannot be found for a passage, then it should be considered as historical or descriptive of what occurred rather than as pedagogical or prescriptive of how people should behave. Of course, because God is loving and just, He does not tempt, trick, confuse or otherwise contribute to anyone’s sinfulness. On the contrary, God must be doing all that He can do without abrogating justice or volition (MFW) to influence people not to be deceived and become self-condemned (JM 1:13-17, TIT 3:11, IS 45:19).

This realization should steer us away from the problematic opinion (a la Augustine via John Calvin) that God predestines most people for hell and lead us to affirm free will as a paradoxical fact (DT 30:19). It is paradoxical, because it affirms both that God is sovereign and that God chooses not to control moral thinking, because doing so would nullify human responsibility for sin, making the biblical revelation of salvation based on repentance irrelevant and absurd.