Do those condemned to hell suffer forever?
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The thing about the three days is that in the eyes of the Lord a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years as a day.
I never thought about the watch that you mentioned. That was a critical aspect of the whole ordeal. Without a watch or the observation of sunrise and sunsets Jesus would lose track of time. What he endured for our sakes probably seemed like an eternity.
I believe that the most horrible aspect of the crucifixion of Jesus is that when he took upon himself the sins of the world his heavenly Father turned his back on him. I agree with you that the prospect of enduring even one day separated from God is indeed terrifying.
Truly hell.
I never thought about the watch that you mentioned. That was a critical aspect of the whole ordeal. Without a watch or the observation of sunrise and sunsets Jesus would lose track of time. What he endured for our sakes probably seemed like an eternity.
I believe that the most horrible aspect of the crucifixion of Jesus is that when he took upon himself the sins of the world his heavenly Father turned his back on him. I agree with you that the prospect of enduring even one day separated from God is indeed terrifying.
Truly hell.
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LOL, that is human reasoning. FYI, Flesh and blood will not enter into the kingdom of GOD. This is a spiritual and eternal death. Just as in contrast to eternal life or sheep and goats. Hot or cold, Knowing you or not.
One who thinks the fires of hell are the same as a campfire is not reading what is happening in hell .
One who thinks the fires of hell are the same as a campfire is not reading what is happening in hell .
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The payment of sin IS NOT eternal damnation. The payment of sin is finite. A fixed amount of stripes for each sin.
Isaiah 53:5 KJV But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; AND WITH HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED.
Deuteronomy 25:2-3 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number.
3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.
The reason unbelievers have to spend an eternity in hell is because God chose never to wash them of their sins.
Remember, the sins of the elect are finite. The sins of the unsaved are infinite. Can one in the flesh stop sinning for a day?
Isaiah 53:5 KJV But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; AND WITH HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED.
Deuteronomy 25:2-3 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number.
3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.
The reason unbelievers have to spend an eternity in hell is because God chose never to wash them of their sins.
Remember, the sins of the elect are finite. The sins of the unsaved are infinite. Can one in the flesh stop sinning for a day?
NO, the payment for sin is death and an eternal one. They must come to Christ's saving knowledge to receive what Jesus did on the Cross. FYI, people who have been healed still die. If your sins have not been forgiven, you go to the place that was not created for man..
Those who teach there is no eternal punishment are perverting the word of GOD and, most likely, unsaved.
Those who teach there is no eternal punishment are perverting the word of GOD and, most likely, unsaved.
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Haha, you're proving my point! It's eternal damnation btw.
How does someone die greater than the other in the lake of fire if all cease to exist?
Deference degrees of deaths? I know not.
Mark 12:40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
How does someone die greater than the other in the lake of fire if all cease to exist?
Deference degrees of deaths? I know not.
Mark 12:40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
For me, I have done extensive study on the subject and found the Bible is more in line with your friend that is an annihilationist. This was later echoed through prophecy by someone at my fellowship. In fact it was noted there that the first lie in Genesis was that eating of the fruit wouldn't bring death, and the lie persists to this day. John 3:16 for example, says "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." Eternal life requires receiving Jesus as savior. While I can understand confusion on what kind of life is meant, Matthew 10:28 seems to clarify the finality of such perishing by saying "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
My two cents anyway, though actually I have noted many verses in passing over many years. It doesn't really matter all that much, though it does tint one's perspective on God.
My two cents anyway, though actually I have noted many verses in passing over many years. It doesn't really matter all that much, though it does tint one's perspective on God.
that ridiculous. The payment of Christ and gift is eternal life in contrast to eternal torment. Jesus Power of HIS Blood and the work of the Cross is fully sufficient for all sin. As the word of God says in Romans 6:10
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
" the man Jesus would still be in hell." Your logic is unbiblical
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
" the man Jesus would still be in hell." Your logic is unbiblical
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Read it again: Isaiah 53:5 KJV But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; AND WITH HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED.
Jesus giving up the ghost didn't pay for sin. Jesus paid for the elect's sins by drinking the cup of the wrath of God which started in the garden of Gethsemane.
Matthew 26:42 KJV
He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
That same cup of wrath of God, the unsaved will have to drink. Which means they are alive when they drink it as Jesus was alive.
Revelation 14:10 KJV The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Jesus giving up the ghost didn't pay for sin. Jesus paid for the elect's sins by drinking the cup of the wrath of God which started in the garden of Gethsemane.
Matthew 26:42 KJV
He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
That same cup of wrath of God, the unsaved will have to drink. Which means they are alive when they drink it as Jesus was alive.
Revelation 14:10 KJV The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
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So you are just going to ignore Isaiah. Was Jesus Christ beaten with stripes? Yes or No.
Isaiah 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isaiah 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
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Isaiah is speaking from only partial revelation
Jesus said, "IT IS FINISHED." John `19:28-30. The context of the Cross was also fulfilled for the Jews. And no more sacrifices would be needed.
Jesus Paid for sin as HE said before Ge gave up the Ghost."
Finished is a statement that the account has been paid in full. All Past debt, Present Debtand future Debt have been paid BY what Christ did.
You are allegorizing the text of Isaiah and others.
Jesus said, "IT IS FINISHED." John `19:28-30. The context of the Cross was also fulfilled for the Jews. And no more sacrifices would be needed.
Jesus Paid for sin as HE said before Ge gave up the Ghost."
Finished is a statement that the account has been paid in full. All Past debt, Present Debtand future Debt have been paid BY what Christ did.
You are allegorizing the text of Isaiah and others.
No.
Hell means grave.
Death is forever for those not saved.
Death is forever but the state of the dead is what determines if hell is a literal place of suffering or not.
Rev 20:13-15
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Hell is destroyed with death.
Ecc 9:5-6
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
The result is forever, the second death is forever.
But hell is not forever.
Hell means grave.
Death is forever for those not saved.
Death is forever but the state of the dead is what determines if hell is a literal place of suffering or not.
Rev 20:13-15
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Hell is destroyed with death.
Ecc 9:5-6
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
The result is forever, the second death is forever.
But hell is not forever.
How do you get around Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
As to your suggestion that hell/hades/sheol/etc means "the grave" i would contest that. When Jesus told the story of the rich man and Lazarus, clearly they were able to think, feel, even talk. That is sheol in the hebrew view, they did not cease to exist. Why would anyone be afraid of ceasing to exist?
And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
As to your suggestion that hell/hades/sheol/etc means "the grave" i would contest that. When Jesus told the story of the rich man and Lazarus, clearly they were able to think, feel, even talk. That is sheol in the hebrew view, they did not cease to exist. Why would anyone be afraid of ceasing to exist?
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