Do we decide to be saved?
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D
But we had choice! We always had choice! We chose to sin, and at that choice we chose to be separated from God, to die, and to go to hell. "[FONT="]And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.[/FONT][FONT="] For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed."[/FONT]
D
I'm now seeing it wasn't you being tired that caused cobwebs in your brain. It was your determination to keep your own personal gospel that you grabbed the lifesaver.
No wonder you came up with "Total Inability." It is what you wanted to hear. Not what you ever did hear. You only listen to what you want it to say.
Sad. Considering the Lord is so much more than anything we could imagine.
No wonder you came up with "Total Inability." It is what you wanted to hear. Not what you ever did hear. You only listen to what you want it to say.
Sad. Considering the Lord is so much more than anything we could imagine.
Yes and if there is someone there to inform the person turn around its right behind you. Then we can come out safely because he worked with us. No man can come unless the father enables them, both working in them with them to do the good pleasure of the one who threw it as well as the one rescued . He can deny the voice that could turn him. But the voice cannot deny he called out.
He who works in us to both will and do his good pleasure (imputed righteousness) 2 Timothy2
[SUP]11 [/SUP]This is a faithful saying:For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself
We shall also live with Him.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself
D
[h=1]Romans 9 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="]9 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:[/FONT]
[FONT="]4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.[/FONT]
[FONT="]9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?[/FONT]
[FONT="]21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?[/FONT]
[FONT="]22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:[/FONT]
[FONT="]23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,[/FONT]
[FONT="]24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?[/FONT]
[FONT="]25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.[/FONT]
[FONT="]26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:[/FONT]
[FONT="]4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.[/FONT]
[FONT="]9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
[/FONT][FONT="]12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?[/FONT]
[FONT="]21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?[/FONT]
[FONT="]22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:[/FONT]
[FONT="]23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,[/FONT]
[FONT="]24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?[/FONT]
[FONT="]25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.[/FONT]
[FONT="]26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.[/FONT]
Romans 9 King James Version (KJV)
9 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
9 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
D
John 3 disagrees with what you think:
[FONT="]18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.[/FONT]
[FONT="]21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.[/FONT]
[FONT="]21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.[/FONT]
D
[FONT="]18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.[/FONT]
[FONT="]21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.[/FONT]
[FONT="]21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.[/FONT]
D
Really? Why is that odd? You have a choice in killing someone. If you make the choice to do so, you don't think the courts have the choice to punish you for your crime?
God is the judge! Your choice stems from what you have done/will do. You broke the law. You already did it, so why is it odd the judge sentences you appropriately?
The only thing odd is the mercy of this particular judge. Albeit everyone who comes into his courtroom is as guilty as sin, he chooses mercy on some. And yet, he is still just because that just sentence laid on an innocent man. The only one. Also the Son of the Judge, and of his own free choice. Now, if you're anti-mercy, feel free to take back your righteous sentence.
Me? I ain't that nuts! I'm following the Judge and loving him forever.
God is the judge! Your choice stems from what you have done/will do. You broke the law. You already did it, so why is it odd the judge sentences you appropriately?
The only thing odd is the mercy of this particular judge. Albeit everyone who comes into his courtroom is as guilty as sin, he chooses mercy on some. And yet, he is still just because that just sentence laid on an innocent man. The only one. Also the Son of the Judge, and of his own free choice. Now, if you're anti-mercy, feel free to take back your righteous sentence.
Me? I ain't that nuts! I'm following the Judge and loving him forever.
Some seem to think that it's inconceivable that GOD could/might/will blot peoples' names out of the book of life. I wouldn't tempt GOD on the matter.
More than one book.
Names will not be blotted out of the Lambs book of life established before the foundation of the world.
Its a matter of comparing the books to one another.Books will be opened...not book
The first book contains the names of all who come from the womb, every human born. It is compared to the lambs book of life all who are born again. If the name are not in the lambs book of life they have not been born again
Emphasize is on the word "can"
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:65
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
M
Just wanted to add as well.
Question - why do we prayer for others to be saved.
Answer because they cannot save themselves, it needs God to turn up
on the scene.
If it didn’t need God’s input and they just made the decision on their own, then
there would be no need to prayer for unsaved family and friends in the first place.
Just think about it for a moment, how many people have been saved through our
prayers because God changed His mind. Oh I’m so awful aren’t I to bring up another
big subject. lol
Genesis 18:22-33 NKJV
[22] Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom,
but Abraham still stood before the LORD. [23] And Abraham came
near and said, "Would You also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
[24] Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You
also destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous that
were in it? [25] Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to
slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should
be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the
earth do right?"
[26] So the LORD said, "If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within
the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes." [27] Then
Abraham answered and said, "Indeed now, I who am but dust
and ashes have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord:
[28] Suppose there were five less than the fifty righteous; would
You destroy all of the city for lack of five?" So He said, "If I find
there forty-five, I will not destroy it." [29] And he spoke to Him
yet again and said, "Suppose there should be forty found there?"
So He said, "I will not do it for the sake of forty."
[30] Then he said, "Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak:
Suppose thirty should be found there?" So He said, "I will not do it
if I find thirty there." [31] And he said, "Indeed now, I have taken
it upon myself to speak to the Lord: Suppose twenty should be
found there?" So He said, "I will not destroy it for the sake of twenty."
[32] Then he said, "Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak but
once more: Suppose ten should be found there?" And He said, "I
will not destroy it for the sake of ten." [33] So the LORD went His
way as soon as He had finished speaking with Abraham; and Abraham
returned to his place.
Question - why do we prayer for others to be saved.
Answer because they cannot save themselves, it needs God to turn up
on the scene.
If it didn’t need God’s input and they just made the decision on their own, then
there would be no need to prayer for unsaved family and friends in the first place.
Just think about it for a moment, how many people have been saved through our
prayers because God changed His mind. Oh I’m so awful aren’t I to bring up another
big subject. lol
Genesis 18:22-33 NKJV
[22] Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom,
but Abraham still stood before the LORD. [23] And Abraham came
near and said, "Would You also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
[24] Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You
also destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous that
were in it? [25] Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to
slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should
be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the
earth do right?"
[26] So the LORD said, "If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within
the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes." [27] Then
Abraham answered and said, "Indeed now, I who am but dust
and ashes have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord:
[28] Suppose there were five less than the fifty righteous; would
You destroy all of the city for lack of five?" So He said, "If I find
there forty-five, I will not destroy it." [29] And he spoke to Him
yet again and said, "Suppose there should be forty found there?"
So He said, "I will not do it for the sake of forty."
[30] Then he said, "Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak:
Suppose thirty should be found there?" So He said, "I will not do it
if I find thirty there." [31] And he said, "Indeed now, I have taken
it upon myself to speak to the Lord: Suppose twenty should be
found there?" So He said, "I will not destroy it for the sake of twenty."
[32] Then he said, "Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak but
once more: Suppose ten should be found there?" And He said, "I
will not destroy it for the sake of ten." [33] So the LORD went His
way as soon as He had finished speaking with Abraham; and Abraham
returned to his place.
To study the bible in an organized fashion we need to go back to the first occurrence of the subject in scripture. The matter of can a man choose is found of all places in Genesis. When Adam transgressed Gods word in the garden he did so by his will and with intent. Eve was deceived but Adam chose to join Eve. The end result was Spiritual death and separation from God. One of the consequences of Adams choice was that he and Eve received the knowledge of good and evil to know the difference. Innocence was lost and the curse of sin attached. Gen 3 is a chapter filled with doctrine and through it we have a much better understanding of Gods moving in our redemption and salvation.
Jesus explained this dilemma in John 3:18-21. Clearly Jesus said that men choose. Some come to the light and some turn to the darkness. To deny that man must choose is to deny scripture. Now God must create in the heart of man the knowledge of why he must be saved or man is without the light needed to come to Christ. John 16:8-11 and Romans 10:17 are critical in understanding what is expected.
Man is totally depraved and cannot save himself. God is merciful and offers to all the opportunity to be saved. God is not willing that any should be lost but that all should come to repentance. Not all men are willing and choose again to transgress against God.
A superficial knowledge leads to wrong conclusions. Get knowledge and get understanding through Gods word and with the Holy Spirit's guidance. Then you can attain to wisdom which will give peace and compassion.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Jesus explained this dilemma in John 3:18-21. Clearly Jesus said that men choose. Some come to the light and some turn to the darkness. To deny that man must choose is to deny scripture. Now God must create in the heart of man the knowledge of why he must be saved or man is without the light needed to come to Christ. John 16:8-11 and Romans 10:17 are critical in understanding what is expected.
Man is totally depraved and cannot save himself. God is merciful and offers to all the opportunity to be saved. God is not willing that any should be lost but that all should come to repentance. Not all men are willing and choose again to transgress against God.
A superficial knowledge leads to wrong conclusions. Get knowledge and get understanding through Gods word and with the Holy Spirit's guidance. Then you can attain to wisdom which will give peace and compassion.
For the cause of Christ
Roger