Do we really go to heaven or hell after we die? Not immediately, at least!

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Feb 24, 2022
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#21
Maybe prophetic ....I don't know.
It wasn't random as there was good reason for Mary to think that.
That's the beauty of it. Jesus is not the gardener of Gethsemane as she assumed, He as the Second Adam is the gardener of the eternal garden in heaven!

Well, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" for the Christian. WHERE is that exactly?
It's from 2 Cor. 5:8 - "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." However, the context is about Reassurance of resurrection, that this life is not all that is, there's an eternal life after this earthly life. However, the physical reunion with Christ has to wait till the Day of the Lord. The saints are told to "have patience" and to endure.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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#22
first, if one has a Biblical view on Heaven and hell and is a Christian, Jesus' words are authoritative. Jesus said Hell is a real place.

Just as real as the devil and The resurrection of the Lord. IF there is no heaven and hell there is no Resurrection. Jesus died in vain to save people who have no hell to worry about. The Gospel death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ are meaningless.

There is heaven Because said in John 14:1-3


1. Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Heaven is real Because Jesus said so.

Hell is real because Jesus said so.


Our faith hangs on the Truth of the Lord Jesus Christ and the word of God. IF hell and Heaven are not real we are dead in sin and have no salvation and God is a liar.

GOD is NOT a man that HE should Lie. And God placed HIS word above HIS name.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#23
Here's the thing. God is outside of TIME. Yes, when the believer dies they go to be with the Lord. But WHERE is that and WHEN is that?
There's no need to unnecessarily complicate that which is simple. When a believer dies, his or her soul and spirit are IMMEDIATELY in the presence of Christ who is in Heaven. The body goes into the grave to await the Resurrection. This has nothing to do with the Millennium. I already pointed you to Acts 7 and 8 so why was that not enough?

ACTS 7: STEPHEN GOES TO HEAVEN IMMEDIATELY
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep [DIED].
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
#24
There's no need to unnecessarily complicate that which is simple. When a believer dies, his or her soul and spirit are IMMEDIATELY in the presence of Christ who is in Heaven. The body goes into the grave to await the Resurrection. This has nothing to do with the Millennium. I already pointed you to Acts 7 and 8 so why was that not enough?

ACTS 7: STEPHEN GOES TO HEAVEN IMMEDIATELY
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep [DIED].
Genesis 35:18
King James Version
18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

I forgot what I was going to say.
 
Feb 24, 2022
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#25
There's no need to unnecessarily complicate that which is simple. When a believer dies, his or her soul and spirit are IMMEDIATELY in the presence of Christ who is in Heaven. The body goes into the grave to await the Resurrection. This has nothing to do with the Millennium. I already pointed you to Acts 7 and 8 so why was that not enough?
No it's not enough. Shouldn't there be a bema seat judgement in 2 Cor. 5:10? What is that all about? And when does that happen?

(1) He went to "preach" (or proclaim) His victory on the cross to all the spirits which were in prison in Hades;
You said it yourself that dead people who to Hades first. Jesus came down to release them from that prison. That'll always be the case till the Day of the Lord. When Jesus appeared in John's vision, that was like 90AD, more than half a century after His resurrection.
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
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#26
That's the beauty of it. Jesus is not the gardener of Gethsemane as she assumed, He as the Second Adam is the gardener of the eternal garden in heaven!
Just as on the road to Emmaus the two disciples did not recognize Jesus.
I think the same thing with Mary….. It was her supposing he was the gardener for the reason given in chapter 19. It doesn’t say Jesus appeared as a gardener.
Luke 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

If we were going right into the tribulation period ….you may have a connection…. but we didn’t. About 50 days later we entered in what God had kept a secret…. which was the age or administration of Grace with Christ being the head of the 1 body…the one new man.

I know I am not going to change your thinking….but I appreciate your stand and the back and forth on this.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#27
op: heaven or hell when dead?:
Yes, Very Simple Bible Truth!:

1) JESUS Explained the UNbelievers' "conscious
torment of hellFire" Plainly and Clearly:
Jesus spoke in parables that had hidden meaning... He also used hyperbole, symbolism,
and apocalyptic language, none of which is meant to be taken literally.


He needed to explain much to His disciples, because even they did not understand.

They said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?" Jesus answered them,
"To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but
to them it has not been granted. For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and
he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be
taken away from him. Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing
they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."


Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not
perceive; For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with
their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should
heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they
hear. For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see
what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it"



3) Simply ALWAYS believe The Word Of Truth! Amen?

GRACE And Peace...
Yes, amen :)
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,762
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#29
Remember Jesus is of the Trinity. To be away from the body is to be with the Lord. There is a current Heaven that in the beginning a rebellion took place. This current Heaven is where the soul without the resurrected body resides with God in His 3 manifestations.

Philippians 1:23 ESV
I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.

2 Corinthians 5:8 ESV
Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.



Paradise is used in different ways. One of a garden and another as a heavenly place.


2 Corinthians 12:1-4
New International Version


12 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.




It is simply a current Heaven that is like a paradise during the dispensation of the ages leading up to the day where the current Earth, current Heaven, and Earthly Jerusalem is destroyed.

For a new to be brought forth, there must be an old.



His name was definitely signed to the Book of Life which is important for future events as well as his admission into Heaven.
amen !!

the world is currently divided like this both places running concurrent

“The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's:

but the earth hath he given to the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭115:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when Jesus took his place on the throne in heaven bekng rejected and crucified on earth this became the state of those two places heaven and earth

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the war in heaven was won and the war on earth for the souls of men had begun

when we pass away in Christ it’s different than if we die without him. To die in Christ is blessing and peace and entrance into the kingdom established in heaven

“And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we reject the gospel we end up dying in our sins and await in death the final resurrection and judgement of the dead

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:24‬ ‭

We want to die in THe lord so we can live with him in the kingdom when we leave our flesh rather than dying in our sins and being judged among the dead in the end

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the thief was a believer and though his body died he did not
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#30
You said it yourself that dead people who to Hades first. Jesus came down to release them from that prison. That'll always be the case till the Day of the Lord.
You should quit before you dig yourself any deeper. Since you do not understand the significance of the resurrection of Christ -- which I have explained to you -- I will let you go on your merry way. 'Bye.
 
Feb 24, 2022
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#31
You should quit before you dig yourself any deeper. Since you do not understand the significance of the resurrection of Christ -- which I have explained to you -- I will let you go on your merry way. 'Bye.
You didn't explain why saints are instructed to be patient and to endure in Dan. 12:12, Mk. 13:13, Rev. 6:11, 13:10 and many other verses. In soul and spirit are already with Christ in heaven, then why the long wait?