Do you believe there will be animal sacrifices in the millennium?

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

i am not sure. i know i am ignorant and hazy on eschatology so i usually stay out of it altogether. tho i do read threads that i never comment in

You are very dogmatic for someone that is 'not sure.'

 

[posthuman]

I've been listening to a lot of sermons recently about covenant and new covenant theology. I think a lot of things about covenant theology are whacko. I think I believe much closer to new covenant theology, but I disagree with what they say about Israel.

 

[Hevosmies]

Wowee.

I hope Nehemiah checks back on this thread and answers to my question, that is the only thing in the world that can convince me the sacrifices are EVER coming back in light of the N.T.

Why are you so keen to contradict the prophecy of Ezekiel?

What he describes is under the New Covenant, but for whatever reason, there is also a temple in Jerusalem and animal sacrifices under Christ, as well as David as prince under Christ. This is no way would nullify the finished work of Christ, since the New Covenant is in His blood.

Let's not try to use human reasoning against divine revelation.

If you can show me the verse that what Ezekiel describes is "under the New Covenant" im in.

 

[posthuman]

You are very dogmatic for someone that is 'not sure.'

i do feel sure Ezekiel 40- isn't meant to be literally made. all the same i am open to be convinced i just don't make it easy for anyone to change my mind

 

[Hevosmies]

I've been listening to a lot of sermons recently about covenant and new covenant theology. I think a lot of things about covenant theology are whacko. I think I believe much closer to new covenant theology, but I disagree with what they say about Israel.

Israel this and that. WHO KNOWS if the guys we have in Israel are descendents of Jacob? Only God can know that. One thing we know as a fact is, there are many who have simply converted to the religion of Judaism. I actually know one.

It is just awfully suspicious when you have asian jews, black jews, european jews. All claiming to be descendants of a guy from the middle-east. Ya know? Someone is wrong

But we know FOR SURE there are atleast 144 000 Israelites from the tribes mentioned in the book of revelation AND more who will get saved in the end times.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

i do feel sure Ezekiel 40- isn't meant to be literally made. all the same i am open to be convinced i just don't make it easy for anyone to change my mind

Pray and ask God to either convince you or to give you a settled peace in your present views. That is the key . . . settled peace. God is not the Author of confusion, and if you do not feel comfortable - God is telling you something.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

If you can show me the verse that what Ezekiel describes is "under the New Covenant" im in.

I just have a cpl questions about this part ^.

Do you believe Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23 (the "dry bones" prophecy) refers to something in the past, or in the future?

Do you believe Ezekiel 39:7 (and context; "So will I make My holy name known in the midst of MY PEOPLE ISRAEL") refers to something in the past, or in the future? [see also Rom9:26/Hos1:10 regarding Israel (contrasting Rom9:25/Hos2:23b regarding the Gentiles)]


["in the place where it WAS SAID UNTO THEM..." (this can be, and was, said only re: Israel), Rom9:26 (see also Rom11:15 and the parallels I've pointed out in past posts, Ezek37:12-14,20-23 being one of those; and vv.25-28 also)]

 

[preston39]

I've been listening to a lot of sermons recently about covenant and new covenant theology. I think a lot of things about covenant theology are whacko. I think I believe much closer to new covenant theology, but I disagree with what they say about Israel.

p...,

Hagee says the Jew will automatically be forgiven for rejecting Christ and be saved.
I find nothing in scriptures which relates to that and don't believe it will happen.

What is it you disagree with concerning the new covenant and the Jew?

 

[Hevosmies]

I just have a cpl questions about this part ^.

Do you believe Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23 (the "dry bones" prophecy) refers to something in the past, or in the future?

Do you believe Ezekiel 39:7 (and context; "So will I make My holy name known in the midst of MY PEOPLE ISRAEL") refers to something in the past, or in the future? [see also Rom9:26/Hos1:10 regarding Israel (contrasting Rom9:25/Hos2:23b regarding the Gentiles)]


["in the place where it WAS SAID UNTO THEM..." (this can be, and was, said only re: Israel), Rom9:26 (see also Rom11:15 and the parallels I've pointed out in past posts, Ezek37:12-14,20-23 being one of those; and vv.25-28 also)]

I believe its future. Due to the fact that Romans makes it clear. We are in the times of the gentiles now. There are Jews who have gotten saved, but MAJORITY of them have not.
In the future there will be a revival amongst the Israelites. (the descendants of Jacob I believe, not converts to the religion of judaism and all the kabbalah peoples)

I want to make it clear in case im being misunderstood: Im not denying Acts 1:6 will be fulfilled in the future. My only contention is that in light of the book of Hebrews(and galatians), how could we go BACK in redemptive history, back under the bondage of the law from which Christ freed the people?

Hebrews 8.13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

BUT i will also ask you DivineWatermark, if there are sacrifices under the New Covenant as Nehemiah suggested earlier that Ezekiel is talking about the new covenant there.
If there is a verse that says that we might as well delete the thread and i'll change my opinion right away.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

But we know FOR SURE there are atleast 144 000 Israelites from the tribes mentioned in the book of revelation AND more who will get saved in the end times.

Those 144,000 are Jewish evangelists that will be sent out all over the world to proclaim the Word of God, under the Jewish economy. They will be responsible for gathering the together the Jewish remnant. Though many of those converts will die under the hand of the Antichrist . . . those in the vicinity of Israel will flee to the caves of Petra where they will be protected from his evil purposes.

Jesus said, "Pray that your flight is not in winter . . ."

 

[Locutus]

Dispensationalism is a delusional "eschatology" that contradicts the bible and itself - I'm glad I demolished that "system" to my own satisfaction.

 

[JGIG]

Jesus came to fulfill the law for those that would receive Him by faith through the Blood. The Millennial kingdom will be run under the rules of the kingdom -- the sermon on the mount et al.

Lost people during the Millennium will need a way to approach and appease the King.

The Blood of Christ 'appeased' the King (see propitiation).

ONE sacrifice, for all sin, for all time:

8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second.10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.​

​

11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, (from Heb. 10)​

All other Scripture and theologies must be viewed through the lens of the finished work and Perfect, Permanent High Priesthood of Christ.

Since Christ's High Priesthood is permanent, as the Scriptures say, and there is only ONE advocate between man and God, as the Scriptures also say, then a future Levitical priesthood is OUT.

23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. (from Hebrews 7)​

​

5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. ​

​

Since the Levitical priesthood is never coming back (because there is one mediator between God and man, and that is Christ Jesus), then you who believe there are sacrifices in the future would have to imagine Christ officiating over offerings for sins He already died for.

Either Christ's Perfect, Permanent High Priesthood is, or it is not. Scripture says it is. Therefore any interpretation or theological structure derived from other Scriptures which seem to contradict that immovable truth must be reevaluated.


-JGIG

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I believe its future. Due to the fact that Romans makes it clear. We are in the times of the gentiles now. There are Jews who have gotten saved, but MAJORITY of them have not.
In the future there will be a revival amongst the Israelites. (the descendants of Jacob I believe, not converts to the religion of judaism and all the kabbalah peoples)

I want to make it clear in case im being misunderstood: Im not denying Acts 1:6 will be fulfilled in the future. My only contention is that in light of the book of Hebrews(and galatians), how could we go BACK in redemptive history, back under the bondage of the law from which Christ freed the people?

Hebrews 8.13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

BUT i will also ask you DivineWatermark, if there are sacrifices under the New Covenant as Nehemiah suggested earlier that Ezekiel is talking about the new covenant there.
If there is a verse that says that we might as well delete the thread and i'll change my opinion right away.

Okay, so let me ask you if you believe Zechariah 14:1,6,8,9,13,20,21's phrases "day of the Lord/INTHAT DAY" refers to past events, or future? and then, what do you make of verses 16-19 regarding "the feast of Tabernacles" that it says there, that they are to "keep" (I am assuming the same "feast of Tabernacles" that Lev23:33-43 referred to?? [My personal understanding is that this was His "birth day"])

And what do you think of Col2:16-17's phrasing, which says, "[listed items] which [plural] ARE [present tense] A SHADOW [singular] of things coming [plural]"??

And what do you think of Jesus' words in Lk22:30,16,18 ['not... again UNTIL'... "until it BE FULFILLED in..."] and in Matt26:29 parallel where it says "drink it NEW WITH [G3326 -accompanying] you in My Father's kingdom" [also Matt19:28 / Matt25:31-34 for TIMING]



[sry writing too fast...lol]

 

[Hevosmies]

Okay, so let me ask you if you believe Zechariah 14:1,6,8,9,13,20,21's phrases "day of the Lord/INTHAT DAY" refers to past events, or future? and then, what do you make of verses 16-19 regarding "the feast of Tabernacles" that it says there, that they are to "keep" (I am assuming the same "feast of Tabernacles" that Lev23:33-43 referred to?? [My personal understanding is that this was His "birth day"])

And what do you think of Col2:16-17's phrasing, which says, "[listed items] which [plural] ARE [present tense] A SHADOW [singular] of things coming [plural]"??

And what do you think of Jesus' words in Lk22:30,16,18 ['not... again UNTIL'... "until it BE FULFILLED in..."] and in Matt26:29 parallel where it says "drink it NEW WITH [G3326 -accompanying] you in My Father's kingdom" [also Matt19:28 / Matt25:31-34 for TIMING]



[sry writing too fast...]

Hmm.

I believe its future in Zechariah. I understand what you're getting at. In Zechariah 14 sacrifices are mentioned I know that, but as I said what about the witness of Hebrews that i've also posted?
WE should interpret the OT in light of the NT not the other way around.

 

[JGIG]

Was there a temple in Babylon that I do not know about? I mean, there could have been . . . seeing as how all the gold and furniture from the temple was there.

I believe its future. Due to the fact that Romans makes it clear. We are in the times of the gentiles now. There are Jews who have gotten saved, but MAJORITY of them have not.
In the future there will be a revival amongst the Israelites. (the descendants of Jacob I believe, not converts to the religion of judaism and all the kabbalah peoples)

I want to make it clear in case im being misunderstood: Im not denying Acts 1:6 will be fulfilled in the future. My only contention is that in light of the book of Hebrews(and galatians), how could we go BACK in redemptive history, back under the bondage of the law from which Christ freed the people?

Hebrews 8.13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

BUT i will also ask you DivineWatermark, if there are sacrifices under the New Covenant as Nehemiah suggested earlier that Ezekiel is talking about the new covenant there.
If there is a verse that says that we might as well delete the thread and i'll change my opinion right away.

I believe that a case can be made that Ezekiel's Temple was conditional upon Israel's contemporary choices:

Ezekiel 43:10-11
10 “Son of man, describe the temple to the people of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their sins. Let them consider the plan, 11 and if they are ashamed of all they have done, make known to them the design of the temple—its arrangement, its exits and entrances—its whole design and all its regulations and laws. Write these down before them so that they may be faithful to its design and follow all its regulations.​

The whole rest of the passage that those advocating for Millennial sacrifices becomes moot in light of the condition laid out in Ezekiel 43:10-11. God says, “Let them consider the plan and if you are ashamed of all you have done, then . . . “ and has Ezekiel write down in great detail what God would have had in store for Israel, i.e. the new Temple with modified features and protocols, had Israel done the “If”.

Another issue comes up in the Ezekiel 40-48 passage is that some think that the ‘prince’ referred to in Ezekiel 45 is the Messiah, who will preside over the sacrifices offered in the Millennial Temple. Let’s take a look:

Ezekiel 45:21-22
21 “‘In the first month on the fourteenth day you are to observe the Passover, a feast lasting seven days, during which you shall eat bread made without yeast. 22 On that day the prince is to provide a bull as a sin offering for himself and for all the people of the land.'”​

Jesus Christ, the Messiah, is without sin, so the prince mentioned in the above passage cannot refer to Messiah. Some surmise that the prince is David upon his promised throne over Israel – yet the Blood of THE Lamb has been shed, once for all, and from that reality I must base any interpretation of future events.

-JGIG

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

The Jews as a nation have never received Jesus Christ as their Messiah. If they had the church age would never have occurred. In order to renew the offer to Israel, she needs to be returned to the same state she had in 33 A. D.

I am not speaking of computers and airplanes . . . but a mindset.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If you can show me the verse that what Ezekiel describes is "under the New Covenant" im in.

And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods. (Ezek 34:25)

EZEKIEL 36
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

JEREMIAH 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

HEBREWS 8
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

 

[posthuman]

I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes

whoah whoah 'not a robot or it's not real love'

lawl



Jacobus Arminius, busted

 

[posthuman]

p...,

Hagee says the Jew will automatically be forgiven for rejecting Christ and be saved.
I find nothing in scriptures which relates to that and don't believe it will happen.

What is it you disagree with concerning the new covenant and the Jew?

i heard preachers and congregation members say, national ethnic Israel is meaningless, that God does not deal with the Jew in any way differently than any other person anymore. that the last thing God ever had to do with and ever will have to do with the people was to ensure that the gospel was preached to them first. finis.
i do not believe that you can just replace every prophetic word about the tribes of Jacob with 'the Church'

i do believe Christ is The Gate, and no one enters except through Him; anyone who comes in some other way is a thief and will be cast out.

 

[posthuman]

Hagee says the Jew will automatically be forgiven for rejecting Christ and be saved.
I find nothing in scriptures which relates to that and don't believe it will happen.

who's Hagee?