Do you view Holy Communion as Literal or Symbolic?
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did the bread and wine go to the cross? What happened to Jesus after He said this? We take scripture in thelight of all scripture.
Literal, figurative, symbolism, and Prophetic are all in the word of God and must be seen in their context. The bread and wine could not be literally His body and blood when Jesus was right there literally in VBody and having blood run through his veins.
Out of the tradition of men and errored doctrine like "Transubstantiation". Have taken the work of the cross and The Vicarious death of the Lord Jesus and placed them on a piece of bread and wine. The reason why Jesus did this was to bring the body of Christ together.
1Cor chapter 11 Paul very clearly said as Jesus said
20 Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. 21 For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you.
23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25
In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.
As some out of bad tradition and not read all the word of God has to say about The Lord's Supper".
Here is a more clear reason why this supper is done:
Literal, figurative, symbolism, and Prophetic are all in the word of God and must be seen in their context. The bread and wine could not be literally His body and blood when Jesus was right there literally in VBody and having blood run through his veins.
Out of the tradition of men and errored doctrine like "Transubstantiation". Have taken the work of the cross and The Vicarious death of the Lord Jesus and placed them on a piece of bread and wine. The reason why Jesus did this was to bring the body of Christ together.
1Cor chapter 11 Paul very clearly said as Jesus said
20 Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. 21 For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you.
23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25
In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.
As some out of bad tradition and not read all the word of God has to say about The Lord's Supper".
Here is a more clear reason why this supper is done:
- In Remembrance of the Lord Jesus Christ Luke 22:19 1cor 11:24
- new Covenant of remembrance of HIM Mattthew 26:26-28
- to proclaim the Lord's death till He comes 1cor 11:26
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Taste and see that the Lord is good! 
Where do you think the Christians take their power from? You need power in order to deny yourself, deny the world, take your cross and follow Him.
Where do you think the Christians take their power from? You need power in order to deny yourself, deny the world, take your cross and follow Him.
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So we take it as his literal flesh and blood
Yet we reject what he said whoever eats will recieve?
Jesus told us what it is, He said it is the spirit who gives life. The words he speak are spirit and life.
That is what we are gnawing and chewing on. His words. Which come from God..
What is the gospel. His flesh and blood which he gave for life..
Yet we reject what he said whoever eats will recieve?
Jesus told us what it is, He said it is the spirit who gives life. The words he speak are spirit and life.
That is what we are gnawing and chewing on. His words. Which come from God..
What is the gospel. His flesh and blood which he gave for life..
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Taste and see that the Lord is good!
Where do you think the Christians take their power from? You need power in order to deny yourself, deny the world, take your cross and follow Him.
Where do you think the Christians take their power from? You need power in order to deny yourself, deny the world, take your cross and follow Him.
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When Jesus cried out "it was finished" on the cross, it was finished. Sacrificing him over and over again is denial of His perfect sacrifice. This all boils down to your understanding of Daniel 9:27 - "He shall confirm a new covenant with many and cause the sacrifice and offering to cease." Either Jesus fulfilled this on the cross - or it's left for the Antichrist to fulfill, as many believe.
I don’t understand why you think that 1. eating the Body and Blood of Christ and 2. doing it in remembrance of Him are two mutually exclusive things…
Also, another preconception is that “we sacrifice Jesus over and over again”. Why? Because we think it’s really the Blood and Body of Christ? We don’t believe we crucify Him when we gather to eat the Holy Communion. It is a “non-bloody” sacrifice. He offers Himself to us and we give our lives to Him. It’s a sacrifice that is both-sided.
Also, another preconception is that “we sacrifice Jesus over and over again”. Why? Because we think it’s really the Blood and Body of Christ? We don’t believe we crucify Him when we gather to eat the Holy Communion. It is a “non-bloody” sacrifice. He offers Himself to us and we give our lives to Him. It’s a sacrifice that is both-sided.
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Because it was all symbolic as a ritual, never meant to be literal. Literal interpretation was specifically rebuked multiple times in the gospel of John, such as "raising the temple in three days", "living water", "born again", "your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day". In all of these instances His audience reacted to his teachings with Literal interpretation, and "flesh and blood" was no exception, many were offended and turned away. Actually, that "bread" was referring to the matzah, traditional jewish flat bread, the dough was actually beaten and pricked, just like the body of Jesus, and the wine is the new covenant Jesus made with his disciples (Matt 26:28-29), which fulfills Dan. 9:27.
I would use the word iconic for the word literal.
Jesus Christ truly IS the living water and the heavenly bread.
I believe and confess that the bread and wine I eat on Sunday truly are the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.
Just as Jesus Christ is God incarnate, not symbolically, but truly, iconically, even tough His appearance recommended Him as a mere mortal, so is the bread and wine and every reality from the Church.
The definition of the icon is this: what you see is earthly, but the meaning (the essence) is from above the sky, from outside of this world.
I reject the symbol because it doesn’t offer me the Holy Spirit. The symbol ensures a relation between two things (material and spiritual) on a cognitive level, whereas the icon offers you an out-worldly reality under the presentation of a material, earthly one.
Jesus Christ truly IS the living water and the heavenly bread.
I believe and confess that the bread and wine I eat on Sunday truly are the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.
Just as Jesus Christ is God incarnate, not symbolically, but truly, iconically, even tough His appearance recommended Him as a mere mortal, so is the bread and wine and every reality from the Church.
The definition of the icon is this: what you see is earthly, but the meaning (the essence) is from above the sky, from outside of this world.
I reject the symbol because it doesn’t offer me the Holy Spirit. The symbol ensures a relation between two things (material and spiritual) on a cognitive level, whereas the icon offers you an out-worldly reality under the presentation of a material, earthly one.
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Just passing through for now, will reply in more detail later. It may be instructive to study what the Early Church Fathers - some of whom, like St. Clement and St. Linus are mentioned in Scripture, and St. Polycarp and St. Ignatius were disciples of Apostles - believed about the Real Presence. As Evangelical Christian Church Historian J.N.D Kelly says "Eucharistic Teaching was Unquestionably Realist" i.e. Literal.
"The doctrine of the Real Presence asserts that in the Holy Eucharist Jesus is literally and wholly present—body and blood, soul and divinity—under the appearances of bread and wine. Many Protestants attack this doctrine as “unbiblical,” but the Bible is forthright in declaring it (cf. 1 Cor. 10:16–17, 11:23–29; and, most forcefully, John 6:32–71).
The early Church Fathers interpreted these passages literally. In summarizing the early Fathers’ teachings on Christ’s Real Presence, renowned Protestant historian of the early Church J. N. D. Kelly, writes: “Eucharistic teaching, it should be understood at the outset, was in general unquestioningly realist, i.e., the consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Savior’s body and blood” (Early Christian Doctrines, 440).
From the Church’s early days, the Fathers referred to Christ’s presence in the Eucharist. Kelly writes: “Ignatius roundly declares that . . . [t]he bread is the flesh of Jesus, the cup his blood. Clearly he intends this realism to be taken strictly, for he makes it the basis of his argument against the Docetists’ denial of the reality of Christ’s body. . . . Irenaeus teaches that the bread and wine are really the Lord’s body and blood. His witness is, indeed, all the more impressive because he produces it quite incidentally while refuting the Gnostic and Docetic rejection of the Lord’s real humanity” (ibid., 197–98)." taken from: https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-real-presence
"The doctrine of the Real Presence asserts that in the Holy Eucharist Jesus is literally and wholly present—body and blood, soul and divinity—under the appearances of bread and wine. Many Protestants attack this doctrine as “unbiblical,” but the Bible is forthright in declaring it (cf. 1 Cor. 10:16–17, 11:23–29; and, most forcefully, John 6:32–71).
The early Church Fathers interpreted these passages literally. In summarizing the early Fathers’ teachings on Christ’s Real Presence, renowned Protestant historian of the early Church J. N. D. Kelly, writes: “Eucharistic teaching, it should be understood at the outset, was in general unquestioningly realist, i.e., the consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Savior’s body and blood” (Early Christian Doctrines, 440).
From the Church’s early days, the Fathers referred to Christ’s presence in the Eucharist. Kelly writes: “Ignatius roundly declares that . . . [t]he bread is the flesh of Jesus, the cup his blood. Clearly he intends this realism to be taken strictly, for he makes it the basis of his argument against the Docetists’ denial of the reality of Christ’s body. . . . Irenaeus teaches that the bread and wine are really the Lord’s body and blood. His witness is, indeed, all the more impressive because he produces it quite incidentally while refuting the Gnostic and Docetic rejection of the Lord’s real humanity” (ibid., 197–98)." taken from: https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-real-presence
Medical supervision has disproven transubstantiation. They have tested the theory to see if it's true. It's not.
The bread and wine do not change into anything as it goes down and is digested.
Similarly, doctors have also monitored the brain activity of a person while speaking in tongues while a fellow believer interprets. The frontal cortex is almost completely inactive while someone speaks in a tongue. It confirms the Scripture:
The bread and wine do not change into anything as it goes down and is digested.
Similarly, doctors have also monitored the brain activity of a person while speaking in tongues while a fellow believer interprets. The frontal cortex is almost completely inactive while someone speaks in a tongue. It confirms the Scripture:
“For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.” (1 Corinthians 14:14)
Really? The contrary is the case during Eucharistic Miracles like that of Lanciano. Science rather confirms the Real Presence. This historical miracle is described here:
"In 1970-'71 and taken up again partly in 1981 there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena.
The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs.
These analyses sustained the following conclusions:
These are Miracles which serve to confirm faith. But "blessed are those who have not seen, but yet believed" (Jn 20:29) by faith alone. In normal cases, we are to rest content with faith in God's Word, which "is assurance about things what we do not see" (Heb 11:1).
"In 1970-'71 and taken up again partly in 1981 there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena.
The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs.
These analyses sustained the following conclusions:
- The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.
- The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.
- The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.
- In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.
- The Flesh is a "HEART" complete in its essential structure.
- The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin)."
These are Miracles which serve to confirm faith. But "blessed are those who have not seen, but yet believed" (Jn 20:29) by faith alone. In normal cases, we are to rest content with faith in God's Word, which "is assurance about things what we do not see" (Heb 11:1).
31In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat. 32But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of. 33Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? 34Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
So, did Jesus literally eat the will of God? Was he eating himself on the cross?
So, did Jesus literally eat the will of God? Was he eating himself on the cross?
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i was born, raised and confirmed a Roman Catholic member of the church of Rome.
Transubstantiation along with praying to Mary is Roman catholic idolatry.
i urge you to place your complete trust in the LORD Jesus Christ and HIM alone.
Working on the LORD'S Sabbath is a bad thing and leads to death.
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
Transubstantiation along with praying to Mary is Roman catholic idolatry.
i urge you to place your complete trust in the LORD Jesus Christ and HIM alone.
Working on the LORD'S Sabbath is a bad thing and leads to death.
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
- What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.- Refrain:
Oh! precious is the flow
That makes me white as snow;
No other fount I know,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
- Refrain:
- For my pardon, this I see,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
For my cleansing this my plea,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. - Nothing can for sin atone,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
Naught of good that I have done,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. - This is all my hope and peace,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
This is all my righteousness,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. - Now by this I’ll overcome—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
Now by this I’ll reach my home—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. - Glory! Glory! This I sing—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
All my praise for this I bring—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
Brother David, precisely that Blood of Jesus is on the Altar! It takes deep faith to be able to recognize it. The Lord said clearly "My Flesh is food indeed, and My Blood is drink indeed" and people left Him because they couldn't accept it; notice nobody left Him when He said "My food is to do the Will of the Father"; everyone understood He meant He derives strength from doing His Father's Will. But here we Christians are supposed to derive our strength from eating His Flesh and drinking His Blood in Holy Communion. "Unless you eat My Flesh and drink My Blood, you will not have life in you". We will be weak if we do not subsist on the Body and Blood of Jesus. The Apostles' responded with pure faith. "Lord to whom shall we go? You have the words of Eternal Life". The Apostles believed, the others walked away. That's why the 12 Apostles were invited to the Lord's Last Supper, and the others weren't. If you disagree, that's ok. But as others said, in that case, Holy Communion will indeed become only symbolic for you. The Apostolic Churches, Catholic, Orthodox and others, pray in the Liturgy for the Bread and the Wine to be changed and transformed into the Lord's Body and Blood before partaking.
This practice was handed down by the Apostles. See for e.g. the Liturgy of St. James, Bishop of Jerusalem, one of the 12 Apostles, which is still used in the Orthodox Church: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0717.htm The Apostles clearly believed in the Real Presence.
We can discuss Mother Mary in another thread. In my opinion, Rev 12:1 shows God has honored Mother Mary, and She is our Queen and Mother (Jn 19:26; Rev 12:17), and it is a Biblical Commandment to honor one's Mother. Mary is not worshipped, but only honored.
This practice was handed down by the Apostles. See for e.g. the Liturgy of St. James, Bishop of Jerusalem, one of the 12 Apostles, which is still used in the Orthodox Church: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0717.htm The Apostles clearly believed in the Real Presence.
We can discuss Mother Mary in another thread. In my opinion, Rev 12:1 shows God has honored Mother Mary, and She is our Queen and Mother (Jn 19:26; Rev 12:17), and it is a Biblical Commandment to honor one's Mother. Mary is not worshipped, but only honored.
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My brothers. Do your research on these statements by the Roman Catholic and see that much of what is said to be "from the apostles" actually arose in the 4th or 5th century after Constantine and Rome perverted the gospel with their pagan and polytheistic traditions.
You might have to dig a bit since the Roman Catholic Church had a tendency to kill any brother or sister seen as a contrarian to their political aspirations.
Here's some guidance.
Look up:
Vestal Virgins: their appearance and their practice
Mythology's "Queen of Heaven" (Artemis, Demeter, Diana, Hera, Isis, Venus)
Mythraism for the origin of transubstantiation (although this idea was in the world long before)
Lupercalia celebration and its connection to Mardi Gras
Pagan statues of "mother goddesses" holding babies and their similarities with Mary holding Jesus.
In short: Rome appropriated dozens of pagan practices and traditions to appease the population of the Empire. Appeasing the population was THE motive behind adopting Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire.
You might have to dig a bit since the Roman Catholic Church had a tendency to kill any brother or sister seen as a contrarian to their political aspirations.
Here's some guidance.
Look up:
Vestal Virgins: their appearance and their practice
Mythology's "Queen of Heaven" (Artemis, Demeter, Diana, Hera, Isis, Venus)
Mythraism for the origin of transubstantiation (although this idea was in the world long before)
Lupercalia celebration and its connection to Mardi Gras
Pagan statues of "mother goddesses" holding babies and their similarities with Mary holding Jesus.
In short: Rome appropriated dozens of pagan practices and traditions to appease the population of the Empire. Appeasing the population was THE motive behind adopting Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire.