Do you want the truth? Here is the truth about eschatology

[posthuman]

If you are planning to book an air ticket, so that you can fly to Israel from Canada or wherever, to hide on some mountain because Jerusalem has been surrounded by armies.

hey, armies got planes. they don't even need tickets.
so.. you can't fly somewhere an army can't, can you?

??

 

[posthuman]

You are making a logical error when you assume that since the flood was global that 2 Peter 3:10-13 is global. There is nothing that necessitates that conclusion other than it sounds logical to the human mind that doesn't understand the nature of apocalyptic verses. It is not global.

but i'm reading v. 11 --

Seeing therefore that all these things must be dissolved ​

"all" doesn't mean "all" ?
where's the logical error in accepting "all" to be "all" ?

 

[dcontroversal]

If so then and he saw the third wall built(ad66) and then was sent to Patmos that would make it even later if he wrote it while on Patmos.

And easy enough to figure out who exiled him and a generalized time frame....AFTER 70 A.D......so...use the church at Ephesus as a guide for timing....when did Paul preach at Ephesus....and then give them xx amount of time to grow, mature, serve and then reach the point of losing authority because of their fall in position........not hard to figure out that Revelation was written AFTER 70 A.D.

 

[dcontroversal]

sort of a let down; i had the picture that it would be better than the old one.
but here we are, all creation in frustration waiting for the sons of God to appear, people dying and sinning and decaying all over, lions eating lambs, no one seeking God, everyone astray chasing after their own ways, vain as always, vain, vain, vain.

and this is heaven, you say?

And yet tooth and nail, Preterist argue the drivel that the end came and went in 70 A.D.

 

[Godisgood2323]

THIS IS DELIRIOUS. I WAS BANNED.

Not the first time...Now that I have your attention.

When I woke up this morning I had already decided this would be my last post in this thread. I felt it had become contentious and unproductive. Then I found out I was banned. So here are my final comments:

First I want to apologize for any comments I made that were abrasive and if I upset anyone. God's blessings upon you.

The verses I listed in the original post of this thread are very clear and straightforward. Dozens of verses that are said by Jesus, Peter, James, John, Paul and every author in the NT. They all present the same time frame and allow for no other possible time frame.

That Jesus' second coming would be within His generation. To deny this, is to deny Scripture. The kingdom will never come physically (Luke 17:20-21). It has been here for 1,949 years and is spiritual (Luke 21:31-32).

There are many men who have commented in this thread who have stopped searching for the truth on eschatology a long time ago. They are probably not even aware that they have done that. But it is clear from their obfuscation and unwillingness to address what the verses so clearly state in my original post. Like 99% of the church for the last 2,000 years, they insist on their physical kingdom. It will never come.

But I didn't make this thread for them. I knew this would happen before I started the thread. I made it for those few people who truly want to know the truth about what the Bible teaches on eschatology. You will find it in the verses I listed in the original post to this thread. And there are many others.

God bless you all and thank you for the discussion.

 

[posthuman]

I really do not think that is what is being stated.... the age of the old covenant came to an end and we are in a new covenant age...it is more about viewing Jesus as victorious over sin,offering a new life, defeating Satan.....this is why the Gospel is so important to get out to the world.

ok, but i get stuck on the 'so there's no literal counterpart of this prophecy?' and the 'there was something eerily similar to some of it but doesn't really completely fit the description' and the 'that part's all poetic' & especially the 'God doesn't do things like that anymore' bits.
because He said He'd come while we were all thinking things go on like they always have.

 

[iamsoandso]

And easy enough to figure out who exiled him and a generalized time frame....AFTER 70 A.D......so...use the church at Ephesus as a guide for timing....when did Paul preach at Ephesus....and then give them xx amount of time to grow, mature, serve and then reach the point of losing authority because of their fall in position........not hard to figure out that Revelation was written AFTER 70 A.D.

And Smyrna,,, https://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-5.html#EndNote_War_5.16a Polycarp who was their Bishop thought Paul boasted in all the Churches which at that time alone knew God and says "for we knew him not as yet" so Smyrna was not converted until after the others in 11:3(Polycarp was their Bishop and should know when they began to know God).

 

[iamsoandso]

lol, I put the wrong link in #327 http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/polycarp-lightfoot.html this is for the quote of Polycarp in 11:3

 

[posthuman]

Much evidence to the opposite.

i thought most of the evidence and the overwhelming historical view is Revelation written in the early to mid 90's ?

like,
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/bible-difficulties-2/nt-difficulties/jude/date-of-revelation/

i guess i should go read opposing articles. but i want to catch up on this thread first

 

[posthuman]

Do you believe that because of Irenaeus? The same guy who thought Jesus was 50 years old when He was crucified. Irenaeus' statement in the Greek is completely ambiguous.

eh, it's not so ambiguous that anyone questioned what it meant before the 18th century, and interpreting this:

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to Him, “and you have seen Abraham!”​

“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I AM!”​

(John 8:57-58)​

to mean that Jesus could have been in His 40's but no older ((Irenaeus didn't think Jesus was 50, but possibly 40)) is very different from misunderstanding Polycarp in numerous face-to-face interactions, in the city where the very prophecy itself was circulated, in order to have a wrong emperor and a date off by almost 30 years.

 

[UnderGrace]

i thought most of the evidence and the overwhelming historical view is Revelation written in the early to mid 90's ?

like,
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/bible-difficulties-2/nt-difficulties/jude/date-of-revelation/

i guess i should go read opposing articles. but i want to catch up on this thread first

There is a dissertation on this .... I have access to all journals I will see if I can find it ...it may have some valuable historical data.

 

[posthuman]

I think your conclusions are somewhat fanciful Walldorf.

John stated he was to measure the temple that was current in his time:

(Rev 11:1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. )

How could he be told to measure a temple after it was destroyed?

does he ever write about actually measuring it?

 

[cv5]

Please read these verses and tell me what they all have in common:

Matt 10:23, Matt 16:27-28, Matt 24:34, Mark 8:38-9:1, Mark 13:30, Luke 9:26-27, Luke 21:31-32, 1 Peter 4:7, James 5:8, 1 John 2:18, Rev 1:1, Rev 1:3, Rev 22:6, Rev 22:7, Rev 22:10, Rev 22:12, Rev 22:20.

Then we have these verses that use the Greek word "mello" (G3195 Strong's Concordance) in the present infinitive which always implies IMMINENCE. The word is often translated "will" in English because of the translators false presuppositions. It should be translated in English "about to". The verses are:

Rev 1:19, Acts 17:31, Acts 24:15, 2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Peter 5:1, James 2:12, Heb 10:27, Acts 28:6

Then you have Daniel. He is given a 70 weeks prophecy for his people and his city (Dan 9:24). Daniel Chapters 10-12 give details about that 70 weeks. At the end of that 70 weeks in Daniel 12 we find this:

Daniel 12:4, "seal up the book until the time of the end" Revelation 22:10 says, "Don't seal for the time is at hand"

Daniel 12:7, "when the power of the holy people is completely shattered all will be fulfilled" This occurred with the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

Daniel 12:13, Daniel is told he will rise to his inheritance at the end of the days (see also Matt 25:34). Jesus said all who believed in Him He would raise on the last day (John 6:39,40,44,54) This was the last day of old covenant Israel in 70 AD and is what Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy is about. His people and their city.

And finally...Matt 5:17-18. Make sure you read that with Luke 21:22. Jesus came to fulfill everything written in the Law and Prophets. When all was fulfilled it would pass away. The book of Hebrews, written in the 60's AD, says the law was "ready to pass away" (Heb 8:13).

Jesus said not one jot or tittle could pass until everything was accomplished. This happened with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple and the end of old covenant Israel. We have been living in the new heavens and earth (not a physical place) for 2,000 years. God bless you.

According to your eschatology:

"meet the new boss
same as the old boss"

Won't Get Fooled Again.

 

[dcontroversal]

According to your eschatology:

"meet the new boss
same as the old boss"

Won't Get Fooled Again.

He went bye bye and was a previously banned memeber.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Tertullian in his book, "The Persecution of the Heretics" chapter 36 states clearly that John was arrested in Ephesus, persecuted, an atrempt to kill him and exiled to Patmos during the reign of Emporer Domitian which reigned from A.D. 81 to A.D. 96.....

John Foxe speaks to this in his book in the 1583 "Book of Martyrs"

Jerome also references this as well.

Based upon when the church at Ephesus was addressed by Paul, as well as the other churches addressed in Revelation and the above account of Tertullian it seems to he easily deduced that John wrote Revelation after 70 A.D while exiled on Patmos in the reign of Domitian whice RULED FROM 81 TO 96

 

[posthuman]

I have access to all journals

ALL JOURNALS

that reminds me of a want-ad my friend and i saw in the paper one day, looking for work. it was for a sewing machine operator: "..must be skilled in all types of alterations.."

ALL TYPES OF ALTERATIONS

we thought it was sinister and didn't apply. but i'd like to access ALL JOURNALS - lots of interesting stuff

 

[azamzimtoti]

does he ever write about actually measuring it?

Well, not after it was demolished. But I'm guessing the command was not to wander around the temple with a tape and spirit level.

 

[azamzimtoti]

There is a dissertation on this .... I have access to all journals I will see if I can find it ...it may have some valuable historical data.

Are you saying there is a diss-ertation on the book (Endless Hope or Hopeless End: The Bible and the End of Human History) or the artickle?

 

[UnderGrace]

ALL JOURNALS

that reminds me of a want-ad my friend and i saw in the paper one day, looking for work. it was for a sewing machine operator: "..must be skilled in all types of alterations.."

ALL TYPES OF ALTERATIONS

we thought it was sinister and didn't apply. but i'd like to access ALL JOURNALS - lots of interesting stuff

LOL....it seems like all the journals/databases....but then I do not know how many journals there are actually...does anyone???

Reminds me of a Twilight Zone episode where an avid reader who works at a bank spends his lunches reading in the bank vault, one day the end of the world comes and everything is ruins and he is the last human, he his so excited, he has all this time to read...but when he gets to the public library his glasses fall off and he steps on them.

It is just the worst, saddest ending!!!

 

[UnderGrace]

Are you saying there is a diss-ertation on the book (Endless Hope or Hopeless End: The Bible and the End of Human History) or the artickle?

I know there is a dissertation on Revelations having been written before 70 AD....from someone in the Reformed Church/Presbyterian group