Does a porn addict have to forsake porn BEFORE God will forgive them?

[zone]

John 15
I Am the True Vine
1“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. 11These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.

12“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command you. 15No longer do I call you servants,a for the servantb does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17These things I command you, so that you will love one another.




Acts 2
The Fellowship of the Believers
42And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43And awed came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. 44And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

 

[zone]

John 15
I Am the True Vine
1“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. 11These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.

12“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command you. 15No longer do I call you servants,a for the servantb does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17These things I command you, so that you will love one another.


Acts 2
The Fellowship of the Believers
42And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43And awed came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. 44And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Standing the Gap Ministry​

""My Name is Michael DeSario, I live in Northern Ohio where I am self employed with my wife. I was born in 1949, grew up in Ohio and came to Repentance and Faith in the late seventies. My background had Nothing to do with Christianity, other than I wasn't Catholic....

...We came out of the System entirely in the early eighties and began witnessing on the streets and preaching on street corners. Immediacy we encountered the 'everyone is saved' syndrome. It was impossible to convince anyone (no matter how reprobate) that they had never really repented or turned from their sins, according to the record given us in Acts. (Acts20:21, 26:18-20) They had all 'prayed the prayer', most of them were Baptized and many of them hung out at the City missions. (for the freebees) We were approached by many churches from the System, including the Salvation Army. All of them wanted to utilize our talents for their particular ministries. Which always meant compromise and submitting to the doctrines and traditions of men. We remained independent and tried our hand at Radio (Shortwave) In the days before the Internet reaching out on the air waves was limited and expensive. But it was effective in finding others of like mind trying to get out the truth about Repentance and Faith.

....We teamed up with another independent ministry and combined our resources to broadcast on many AM and FM stations across the country, as well as Shortwave. It had a very limited effect on anything. The System was King and the LIE reigned supreme. We finally stopped wasting our money and put up a simple web site in the early days of the Web. From that we launched our War against the false Doctrines destroying the Church. First it was 'eternal security' (the rampant Lie, called the Sin Gospel!) We moved on to Imputed Righteousness or the so-called 'Moral' Transfer of Christ's Righteousness and Obedience to anyone who believes. Finally we hit the Pinnacle of all False Doctrines.....'IN BORN' Sin! or the Dual Nature of Man, resulting from the fall of Adam, by which Free Will (to do anything good) was forfeited leaving man to be born in a Wretched State, hating God, without ability to Stop Sinning. THIS as we came to see, was the source of ALL the Corruption in the System. It Necessitated the invention of every Doctrinal Fallacy taught by the Reformers since the 1500's.

As long as the Preacher / Teachers THINK that the Bible teaches this Horrid Pagan Lie, and Continue to Preach it world-wide, people are not likely to see their need to Turn from Sin and Repent. Mainly because they THINK they are already Saved in their Sin! For this reason we are NOT affiliated with ANY Church, Ministry, Religious groups, Bible schools, or outreach Missions. Our efforts are 100% focused on exposing the LIES leading millions down the Wide Road to Destruction. We Do Not silicate funds or garner support (other than prayer) Although we appreciate the effect our You Tube Account gets, we choose not to Participate in the Face Book Craze. This is no reflection on anyone. If you wish to engage us, please use our email account. Only beware that our Purpose is Not to argue Doctrinal Fallacies with you. Each Systematic Doctrine is soundly exposed on our web site. Our Desire is to Focus in on the Pure Apostolic Teachings of Scripture...FAR REMOVED from what most of you have been taught inside the System..."


..........................................


"My Name is Michael DeSario, I live in Northern Ohio where I am self employed with my wife. I was born in 1949, grew up in Ohio and came to Repentance and Faith in the late seventies."



really Mike DeSario?
how did you come to repentance and faith?


why are you in complete and total rebellion to the Word of God?


1 Timothy 5:19
Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.

your 2 or 3 witnesses are not your cult members.
since you are outside the church.
a renegade accepting no authority whatsoever.

a schismatic, and all your followers as well.
an elder is not self-appointed.



Acts 12:25
When Barnabas and Saul had finished their mission, they returned from Jerusalem, taking with them John, also called Mark.

Acts 14:23
Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust.

Acts 15:2
This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.

Acts 15:4
When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

Acts 15:6
The apostles and elders met to consider this question.

Acts 16:4
As they traveled from town to town, they delivered the decisions reached by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem for the people to obey.

Acts 20:17
From Miletus, Paul sent to Ephesus for the elders of the church.

Acts 21:18
The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present.

1 Timothy 4:14
Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you.

1 Timothy 5:17
The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.

1 Timothy 5:19
Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.

Titus 1:5
The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you.

James 5:14
Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.

1 Peter 5:1
To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed:

2 John 1:1
The elder, To the chosen lady and her children, whom I love in the truth--and not I only, but also all who know the truth--

 

[homwardbound]

Does a porn addict have to forsake porn BEFORE God will forgive them?

My answer to that question is an unequivocal YES!

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.



Now my question is not addressing the METHODOLOGY or the HOW one may forsake a certain behaviour. My question is simply addressing the issue as to whether certain behaviour must literally cease BEFORE God will grant forgiveness.

God has at the cross already granted forgiveness to be recieved by the believer there is no more sacrifice for sin it is finished and there is no more shedding of blood to be executed the whole world has been forgiven through Christ John 1:29 behold the lamb of God tha away the sin of the world. This took place atthe cross
Old testament before the death of Christ on the cross under law Matthew 6:14 [SUP]14 [/SUP]For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

After death of Christ on the cross where all sin was taken away in Father's sight before anyone of us was ever born here.
Ephesians 1:7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace
Colossians 1:14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Hebrews 9:22In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Hebrews 10:18

1. And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.
2. 1 John 2:12I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
   Therefore when are we going to become responders to this amzing grace being forgiven before any of us here were ever born. The dividing line of human history before the cross (under Law) and after the cross forgiven looking back at this no longer under Law under Grace being thankful in this being a responder to this, forsaking being an initiator trying to please others and or God by what we are doing or not doing. GOD IS THE INITIATOR AND WE ARE THE RESPONDERS. GOD IS THE CREATOR AND WE ARE THE CREATION
   thank you

 

[homwardbound]

Yes it is a huge difference. Love fulfills the law.

Yet you keep alluding to "not being under the law" and concluding that it means "you can sin and not surely die."

You continual speak against the known sins of the flesh having to stop.

If a pornography addict does not have to stop then neither does a serial murderer or a child molester. See where your doctrine leads? It is erroneous.

There is nothing in Ezekial 36 or in Hebrews 10 which makes an allowance for forgiveness IN sin. In fact Hebrews 10:26-29 has a strong warning against willful sin AFTER being truly sanctified by the blood.

We areunder the law of love as respoonders to the love of God and we are to flee sexual immorality the ? Questions how?

[h=3]1 Corinthians 6[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Do Not Sue the Brethren[/h]6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? [SUP]4 [/SUP]If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? [SUP]5 [/SUP]I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? [SUP]6 [/SUP]But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? [SUP]8 [/SUP]No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! [SUP]9 [/SUP]Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, [SUP]10 [/SUP]nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
[h=3]Glorify God in Body and Spirit[/h][SUP]12 [/SUP]All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! [SUP]16 [/SUP]Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.” [SUP]17 [/SUP]But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? [SUP]20 [/SUP]For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s
1 cor 6:11
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
do you see the above, verse, justified made Holy by the Holy Ghost, sanctified, did these have to do works first or did they receive this by Faith in and of Christ, and the result of Faith in Christ is doing what is right, it is by Faith that one actually does right, is doer and this doing is the by-product of faith in Christ Jesus the lover of this world through his Father and thus Father pours this love on the believer shed abroad in his new heart, and that Love pours out onto you, you, and you, and the Law is fullfilled in you when you receive by Faith the Love of God that was poured out to you by his Son at the cross taking away of the world, this is only received by Faith in Christ and through Christ so one can enter the rest of God with out belief.
As Paul wrote even to the Galatians who has bewitched you foolish Galatians Iwant to know did you receive the Spirit of truth by works of the law or by Faith in Christ? Are you made better by works?
In God's love to all those that believe and then excercise their belief they will do works as a result of belief in God through Christ as responders in place of being an initiator of works that look good before men. If I am an iniator then I claim to be God. If I become a responder to God then I am the creation of God and God is love and by me responding to this miraculous love that he showed us by going to the death at the cross through his Son who only responded to his Father and did whatever he was told and said whatever he was told to say. We today shall through beleif do the same period, oncewe quit being as men trying to please other men by what we do or do not do. For I quarantee no man will ever please God by works. It is either you believe or you do not there is no inbetween

 

[homwardbound]

You black.

Me blue.

There is no forgivenes to be executed without the shedding of Blood period that is how it was set up in the Old an din the new Chjrist is the last sacrifice and shedfding of Blood for forgiveness period all have been forgiven just not all have recived it it is finished back at the cross it is done all that is left is to believe God and ask to pass from death to life this happens through belief without a doubt and the works of God's love follow

 

[homwardbound]

I am not inclined to write a commentary on those passages right now. It would only serve as another diversion to which you would jump to some other rhetoric or passage and do the same thing. I know how it works it is endless diversions and distractions to avoid the specifics I have clearly outlined.

The following verses all teach that the rebellion ceases prior to forgiveness being granted... Isa 1:16-20, Isa 55:7, Jer 26:13, Pro 28:13, Exe 18:21, Eze 33:11, Jon 3:8-10, Mat 12:41, Luk 15:11-32. Act 3:19, 2Tim 2:19, Jas 3:7-10, 1Pet 4:1, 2Cor 7:10-11, Jam 1:21-22.

There are many more also.

The premise of this thread was to illustrate the fact that so many who profess Jesus as Lord will argue against a pornography addict having to actually stop engaging in that sin before God will forgive them.

The same principle applies to porn, murder, child molestation, stealing, idolatry, blasphemy, lying ,cheating, adultery etc. God does not forgive anyone who persists in those sins. Christian's are holy, they have been redeemed from those kinds of things. There is something seriously wrong with peoples theology when they believe there is redemption IN sin.

An appeal to Heb 10 or Eze 36 does not undo all those verses. Heb 10 and Eze 36 don't make a case for forgiveness being granted whilst one continues in ongoing rebellion. If you think they do then quote where it does. You can't because they don't.

Skinski your James 1:21-22 read in context below from James1:1-25
[h=3]James 1[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Greeting to the Twelve Tribes[/h]1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad:
Greetings.
[h=3]Profiting from Trials[/h][SUP]2 [/SUP]My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, [SUP]3 [/SUP]knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. [SUP]4 [/SUP]But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing. [SUP]5 [/SUP]If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; [SUP]8 [/SUP]he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
[h=3]The Perspective of Rich and Poor[/h][SUP]9 [/SUP]Let the lowly brother glory in his exaltation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]but the rich in his humiliation, because as a flower of the field he will pass away. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For no sooner has the sun risen with a burning heat than it withers the grass; its flower falls, and its beautiful appearance perishes. So the rich man also will fade away in his pursuits.
[h=3]Loving God Under Trials[/h][SUP]12 [/SUP]Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. ( please remember this is done by faith in God as what is in context prior verses) [SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. (this is done by flesh ones own desires)[SUP]16 [/SUP]Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, ( who did this God or you by Faith or you by works is this done?) that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.
[h=3]Qualities Needed in Trials[/h][SUP]19 [/SUP]So then, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; [SUP]20 [/SUP]for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God.
[h=3]Doers—Not Hearers Only ( now comes doers or hearers)[/h][SUP]21 [/SUP]Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. ( it is the implanted word that saves the soul this would be by God whom implanted the word, and this implanted word comes by Faith in the Son of the Father, Christ Jesus)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; ( doing is a by-product of Faith in Christ) [SUP]24 [/SUP]for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.
Perfect Law of liberty is freed from the law of sin and death. And this law of liberty is Love which is the fullfillment of the law
And I love you Skinski. This scripture put in context brings home the truth that it is by faith in Christ that we are set free to obey the perfect law of liberty because of the finished work of Christ where we are no longer under captivity we are freed to love abundantly and unconditionally as God does. us doers do the law of love because we see that he first loved us. We have become responders to the love of God and do not take it for granted. For how will we escape if any of us take advantage of so great a salvation

[h=3]Hebrews 2[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Do Not Neglect Salvation[/h]2 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, [SUP]3 [/SUP]how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, [SUP]4 [/SUP]God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?

Tell me how is it such a great salvation if you have to work for it? if you have to work for it to get it then it is not free is it? God is love and not a tyrant
Love you man Homwardbound

 

[Skinski7]

Skinski,

Question for you,when Jesus spoke about the prodigal son didn't the son know the father? Didn't the prodigal make a willful choice to leave? If so then what do you do about this?

Matthew 18

[SUP]12 [/SUP]“What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?[SUP]13 [/SUP]And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off.[SUP]14 [/SUP]In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.

Now the shepherd goes after the wandering sheep,is the sheep in that case in rebellion? Or is it that the sheep took his or her focus off the shepherd? Is it willful rebellion or did the sheep start seeing all the pretty little flowers that look so good and the sheep started tasting those pretty little flowers? Does the shepherd go after the sheep or does the shepherd let the sheep fall into the thickets,or a ditch or does the shepherd go after the sheep to rescue him or her?

Do you see it as Jesus did that some have wandered and some made the willful choice?

Jesus said this...

Luk_13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

God does go after the wandering sheep who leave the fold for He is not willing that any should perish. Yet that does not negate that repentance is necessary and that one must forsake the pig pen PRIOR to forgiveness and restoration.

2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

It is repentance for/and remission, not remission and then repentance.

Not all rebellious sheep return home and thus they are cut off.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

There is a goodness and severity of God and there is that word if which we ought to all take heed.



Unbelief = Believe Not = Disobedience = Unfaithfulness

Unbelief/Believe Not - G570 - apistia
From G571; faithlessness, that is, (negatively) disbelief (want of Christian faith), or (positively) unfaithfulness (disobedience): - unbelief.

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Why does the Holy Spirit reprove the world of sin? Because the world BELIEVES NOT or is DISOBEDIENT.

Yet people want to believe that a pornography addict does not have to forsake that sin BEFORE forgiveness is granted? Don't be so foolish.

Repent or perish. The rebellion to God MUST cease.

Abraham BELIEVED God and OBEYED Him.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Is a sinner who is still engaged in his sin believing God and obeying Him? No way!

God imputes righteous those who WALK IN THE STEPS OF FAITH OF ABRAHAM.

Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

How anyone can honestly read the Bible and conclude that there is salvation in sin is beyond me. Such a view must be the result of a veil of darkness over the mind.

A darkness that has an illusion of being light to those who have fallen under its sway.

Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

 

[Skinski7]

Jesus said this...

Luk_13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

God does go after the wandering sheep who leave the fold for He is not willing that any should perish. Yet that does not negate that repentance is necessary and that one must forsake the pig pen PRIOR to forgiveness and restoration.

2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

It is repentance for/and remission, not remission and then repentance.

Not all rebellious sheep return home and thus they are cut off.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

There is a goodness and severity of God and there is that word if which we ought to all take heed.



Unbelief = Believe Not = Disobedience = Unfaithfulness

Unbelief/Believe Not - G570 - apistia
From G571; faithlessness, that is, (negatively) disbelief (want of Christian faith), or (positively) unfaithfulness (disobedience): - unbelief.

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Why does the Holy Spirit reprove the world of sin? Because the world BELIEVES NOT or is DISOBEDIENT.

Yet people want to believe that a pornography addict does not have to forsake that sin BEFORE forgiveness is granted? Don't be so foolish.

Repent or perish. The rebellion to God MUST cease.

Abraham BELIEVED God and OBEYED Him.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Is a sinner who is still engaged in his sin believing God and obeying Him? No way!

God imputes righteous those who WALK IN THE STEPS OF FAITH OF ABRAHAM.

Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

How anyone can honestly read the Bible and conclude that their is salvation in sin is beyond me. Such a view must be the result of a veil of darkness over the mind.

A darkness that has an illusion of being light to those who have fallen under its sway.

Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

Luk 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Luk 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

 

[Skinski7]

Originally Posted by Skinski7

a believers righteousness is basically a ledger entry where God credits the perfection and obedience of Jesus to the believers account. That doctrine is a pure myth borne in the minds of men.

what was Jesus' Perfection and Obedience for Skinski?
did he need it for Himself?

Does God use it in some way other than/in addition to saying "Look at My Son Whom i delivered over to the Cross as an example of how much I hate sin"?

is the Bible about you and your perfection and righteousness?
or is it about Jesus and His?

a combination of the two.

which one does your fate depend on first and foremost?

does your ceasing rebellion and all sin do a thing for you without Christ's Righteousness?

what is Christ's Righteousness?

does His Righteousness 'supplement' yours?

does God like you at all, or see your righteousness as worth anything but hell without Jesus as the Mediator?

what does it mean that Jesus is the Mediator?

is He just standing there arguing your case before God pointing out how righteous you are, that you stopped porn?

on what ground does Jesus have the Authority to do that?

is His Work separate from yours?

is yours anything without His?

would you wearing a crown of thorns or being stabbed in the side help you at all, even without your porn addiction?

You selectively quote me cutting off the rest of my post which addresses the problems of your rhetoric.

Here is the first part which you cut off...

Well the "imputed righteousness of Christ" is found nowhere in the Bible. The Bible does state that God imputes FAITH AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. The Bible also states that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. So there is a righteousness of Christ and a righteousness of God but it is a standard of righteousness we SUBMIT TO in YIELDING to the Spirit. Thus the righteousness of God is MANIFEST through us. Therefore the fruit that is borne will be the fruit of righteousness.

Here are some scriptural passages which PROVE it.

Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. It is FAITH that is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Rom 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. A WALKING IN THE STEPS OF FAITH is CONNECTED to one being imputed as righteousness by God.

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Notice there is a SUBMISSION involved. The righteousness of God is a STANDARD OF CONDUCT. Establishing one's own righteousness is doing what is right IN YOUR OWN EYES "APART" from the counsel of God (Pro 12:15, Isa 64:5-6).

For righteousness is in WHAT YOU DO. It is not a FORENSIC CLOAK as Martin Luther taught and many falsely believe today.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Don't let anyone deceive you John warned. Many will try. Many on these forums will try and they will use great swelling words in order to deceive the simple. Don't be one of them.

The righteousness of God is not a forensic cloak, rather it is MANIFESTED THROUGH US WHEN WE SUBMIT.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Righteousness is not by the law! Righteousness is through SUBMISSION to God which is what Paul CLEARLY teaches in Gal 2:20. We are CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST and therefore it is not us that live but Christ lives IN US and this life that we live in the flesh (our physical bodies) we live by the faith of the Son of God and that is a faith that works by love (Gal 5:6) which fulfills the law (Gal 5:14), which upholds the righteousness of the law in the heart (Rom 3:31), and by which we ourselves fulfill the RIGHTEOUSNESS of the law when we walk after the Spirit (Rom 8:4).

That is what the Bible teaches folks. Yet people like Zone selectively quote in order to create a strawman and then ask FOOLISH questions in order to attack that strawman.

It is not self righteousness to obey God. Nor is it self righteousness to preach that one must repent, forsake their rebellion and yield to God.

 

[Tommy4Christ]

But if it dies, it brings forth much fruit!

Joh 12:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies, it brings forth much fruit.
Joh 12:25 He who loves his life shall lose it. And he who hates his life in this world shall keep it to life eternal.
These powerful words from the mouth of Jesus Himself sum up in a nutshell, what real repentance unto salvation produces in the contrite sinner seeking reconciliation back to God!
This grain of wheat represents the struggling sinner, coming to self as the prodigal and whole city of Nineveh did, broken through a deep crisis of conviction. This death of the flesh (grain of wheat) must occur through repentance in order for it to bring fourth much fruit!
So death must occur for the grain to grow and produce a good crop, and we must also bear this death of the flesh, in order to walk the holy, sanctified life unto God, pleasing in His sight, ready to grow into the man or woman of God He desires up to be, set free from the bondages of sin, and the love of the world!
But this death comes with a high price, many refuse to pay, because they have bought into satans masterpiece, telling the lost sinner, he doesn’t have to repent, or stop any vile sins, but to just confess, and receive Jesus while their flesh is alive and well, and remains that way until they do this first:
Jas 1:21 Therefore putting aside all filthiness and overflowing of evil, receive in meekness the implanted Word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But become doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Yes this death MUST occur, or nothing happened, you are still defiled, and sold under sin, Jesus didn’t magically transfer His righteousness and obedience onto you, you cannot transfer another’s persons virtue onto someone else, it’s all about free choice and ability.
You choose to die in repentance (putting to death all sins leading to death) and if this death is real and genuine, then new growth can now take place, with a heart cleansed and purged of all defilement and disobedience to God!
The new convert in Christ, will now be hungry for the truth, and righteousness, dead to the world, and his old life, now alive to the kingdom of God, dead to self, and now alive to the spirit within him!
You must hate your old life that was bent on destruction, full of lust and worldliness, now focused on your new life walking the narrow road with Christ in the lead, showing you the way, as you mimic and follow Him, through the power of the Holy Spirit!
You don’t do it on your own, or in your own power or strength, but IN the power of the spirit, and the word of God that wells up inside of you, as you now can learn and understand it with a clear conscience, filled and being led by the spirit of truth!
So as commanded by God, you must crucify your flesh (die) as the grain of wheat did, then seek the mercy of God, alive and submissive to His command’s, ready to obey Him from a heart of love, devotion, and fear!
Eze 18:31 Cast away (REPENT) from you all your sins by which you have sinned; and make you a new heart and a new spirit; for why will you die, O house of Israel?
This casting away produces death to the old man, now ready to make a new heart and spirit unto the Lord, alive and converted into a true Saint, free from death and condemnation!
Tommy 2-15-13

 

[Skinski7]

1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
1Jn 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Yet in this day and age those who proclaim to have been made pure and claim to have been redeemed from all iniquity and those who actually hold fast to the words of Christ and yield to them are labelled as self-righteous liars who do not have to the truth in them.

Isa_5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

God forbid that one preach that sin must be forsaken BEFORE forgiveness is granted is the mantra of many today. Only Satan would teach such a thing right? It is truly incredible the amount of darkness which abounds in these late days.

 

[zone]

You selectively quote me cutting off the rest of my post which addresses the problems of your rhetoric.

Here is the first part which you cut off...



Here are some scriptural passages which PROVE it.

Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. It is FAITH that is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Rom 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. A WALKING IN THE STEPS OF FAITH is CONNECTED to one being imputed as righteousness by God.

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Notice there is a SUBMISSION involved. The righteousness of God is a STANDARD OF CONDUCT. Establishing one's own righteousness is doing what is right IN YOUR OWN EYES "APART" from the counsel of God (Pro 12:15, Isa 64:5-6).

For righteousness is in WHAT YOU DO. It is not a FORENSIC CLOAK as Martin Luther taught and many falsely believe today.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Don't let anyone deceive you John warned. Many will try. Many on these forums will try and they will use great swelling words in order to deceive the simple. Don't be one of them.

The righteousness of God is not a forensic cloak, rather it is MANIFESTED THROUGH US WHEN WE SUBMIT.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Righteousness is not by the law! Righteousness is through SUBMISSION to God which is what Paul CLEARLY teaches in Gal 2:20. We are CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST and therefore it is not us that live but Christ lives IN US and this life that we live in the flesh (our physical bodies) we live by the faith of the Son of God and that is a faith that works by love (Gal 5:6) which fulfills the law (Gal 5:14), which upholds the righteousness of the law in the heart (Rom 3:31), and by which we ourselves fulfill the RIGHTEOUSNESS of the law when we walk after the Spirit (Rom 8:4).

That is what the Bible teaches folks. Yet people like Zone selectively quote in order to create a strawman and then ask FOOLISH questions in order to attack that strawman.

It is not self righteousness to obey God. Nor is it self righteousness to preach that one must repent, forsake their rebellion and yield to God.

your wimpy cop-out.

what's this Skinski? what does it mean:

"we live by the faith of the Son of God"

if your post is a mile long i won't read it.

did Jesus have an evil inclination?

how come DeSario is in full on rebellion, and you with him?

 

[Tommy4Christ]

Many do not understand biblical repentance and what it is for and what it produces in the true convert, but its because you love the lie, and are still in your carnal mind, defending your right to sin and go to heaven!
Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees!

Luk 12:1 In the meantime, when there had gathered together an innumerable crowd of people, so as to trample on one another, He began to say to His disciples first, Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
Luk 12:2 For there is nothing covered that shall not be revealed, nor anything hidden that shall not be known.
Today in the church system those few who stand for truth, holiness, and separation, including speaking out against the false teachers and system are called the Pharisees and hypocrites!
The professing masses will do everything in their power to discredit the truth as handed down by the saints of old, where original sin, and substitution theology was un heard of, and would be considered great hearsay in that day, but not today, the hypocrites are the ones who call for repentance and faith, who stand firm against the onslaught of lies, and proclaim they have crucified their flesh with Christ, and are walking on the narrow road!
Scores of church goers call themselves the chief of sinners, and hypocrites, every day because of what they have been taught and how they live their lives. They get saved instantly while still wallowing in sins, such as rebellion, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, anger, lust, immorality, hatred, and much more.
But the ones, who walk the narrow crucified life as commanded by Jesus, are singled out, and cast away, because they do not fit into the mold that makes them the chief of sinners, and living a wanton life struggling in vile sins that lead to death.
I ask then who are the Pharisees and hypocrites.
Is it the few called out ones, walking in the truth, standing in the gap for God, and living a holy and separated life unto Him?
Or the large masses who flock to the churches every weekend, living in sin and loving the vain attraction of the world over the word of God, which is able to save their souls and those who hear it!
1Ti 4:16 Hold on to yourself and to the doctrine; continue in them, for doing this you shall both save yourself and those who hear you.
Tommy

 

[Tommy4Christ]

Hey Zone please read what we post carefully, and quit casting despersions on Mike and Skinski, you are under the strong delusion, and we hope you would read out posts, come to a saving faith, stop playing games with God and His truth!

 

[Tommy4Christ]

2Th 2:10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness in those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, so that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie,
2Th 2:12 so that all those who do not believe the truth, but delight in unrighteousness, might be condemned .

Those who say a porn watcher doesnt have to forsake his porn to receive mercy, are under the strong delusion!

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

 

[Skinski7]

your wimpy cop-out.

what's this Skinski? what does it mean:

"we live by the faith of the Son of God"

if your post is a mile long i won't read it.

did Jesus have an evil inclination?

how come DeSario is in full on rebellion, and you with him?

It is just rinse and repeat with you. I can answer your questions yet you just ignore the answers and repeat the same questions. You don't love Scripture or truth. You love to be right and belittle those with whom you disagree.

I admit I am a heretic in the context of what you believe. I do not believe in your false religious dogmas. I decry the saved IN sins message. I am in rebellion to your false theology as all the saints, throughout history, have been in rebellion to the false religious dogmas of men.

Throughout history apostasy has been the rule and not the exception. The religious system was apostate in the days of Jeremiah, Isaiah and Ezekiel. The religious system was apostate in the time of Jesus and the apostles. The religious system is apostate today also.

Those who stand against it in truth will be deemed heretics and rebels by those whose minds are enslaved by its lies.

The message of Jesus is simple. Repent and believe the Gospel which can simply be summed up in stop your rebellion and yield to God.

The doctrine of Christ is according to godliness (1Ti6:3) and whoever sins and does not abide in this doctrine does not have God (2 Joh 1:9). One must abide in this doctrine to have the Father and the Son (2Joh 1:9) and this is why Jesus taught this...

Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

 

[zone]

quit casting despersions on Mike

sorry Tommy, no can do.
DeSario's writings will speak.

 

[Grandpa]

Yet in this day and age those who proclaim to have been made pure and claim to have been redeemed from all iniquity and those who actually hold fast to the words of Christ and yield to them are labelled as self-righteous liars who do not have to the truth in them.

Isa_5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

God forbid that one preach that sin must be forsaken BEFORE forgiveness is granted is the mantra of many today. Only Satan would teach such a thing right? It is truly incredible the amount of darkness which abounds in these late days.

Those who proclaim to be made pure and claim to have been redeemed from iniquity should be leading people to Christ. These people should know who did the work in making them pure and who redeemed them from iniquity.

Is a person made pure because they have caused themselves to become sinless??

Is a person redeemed from iniquity because they follow the Law perfectly??

Do we become sons of God because God owes it to us for all the work we have done in forsaking our sin??

John 1:11-13
[SUP]11 [/SUP]He came unto his own, and his own received him not. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Luke 5:31-32
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

 

[Enow]

Addiction to porn means a person is compelled to view porn. I have a friend who is battling his addiction to cigarettes. He has tried many times and keeps on fighting his addiction but still has not had any success. Can he be forgiven even if he continues to smoke? It is my understanding that addictions also have an element of shame attached to the addictive behavior. Far be it for me to assume I know when and how God forgives. We serve a God of love and compassion. God understands addictions better than we will ever understand them.

Here is something Paul wrote that might help us to get a handle on this.

(Romans 7:14-8:4 NKJV) For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. {15} For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. {16} If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. {17} But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.{18} For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. {19} For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
{20} Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. {21} I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. {22} For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. {23} But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. {24} O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? {25} I thank God; through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

( 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. {2} For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. {3} For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, {4} that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

So here we see that Paul suffered with a sin issue and do you think he was forgiven? I hope so! So I also believe that those trapped in an addiction can be forgiven.

Read Romans 8:3 and then backwards to the two prior verses that testify that sin shall not have dominion over you now that you are a believer in Jesus Christ. Believers have power now to overcome.

What Paul was saying in Romans chapter 7 was about his inability to keep the law due to his sinful nature, but going into the next chapter, Paul is testifying that everything has changed now thanks to Jesus Christ.

So there is hope for every believer in overcoming as believing that Jesus is the Son of God is to belive by faith in the Son of God in us that He will overcome the sin for us as He has overcome the world because He is the Son of God for us to hope in.

1 John 5:1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him....[SUP]4 [/SUP]For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Now Jesus did say this in relations to avoiding lust by making no provisions for it such as porn.

Romans 13:14But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Putting on the armour of God is a requirement for His disciples these days in a society where the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life is everywhere.. even in the churches.

1 Timothy 2:[SUP]9 [/SUP]In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; [SUP]10 [/SUP]But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

We got too many believers wnating to look their best in appealing to the pride of life and winding up judging others by their looks and society's sex appeal as well... and yet we are not to judge others by outward appearances lest we being a doer of the law.

James 2:1My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; [SUP]3 [/SUP]And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: [SUP]4 [/SUP]Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? [SUP]5 [/SUP]Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? [SUP]6 [/SUP]But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? [SUP]7 [/SUP]Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? [SUP]8 [/SUP]If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: [SUP]9 [/SUP]But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

So as much as churches frown on certain obvious sex appealing attire, they are being oblivious that they are still catering to the society's pride of life and yet what did John testify of that as meaning?

1 John 2:[SUP]15 [/SUP]Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

So porn is not the only thing sowing to the flesh these days in an society where advertising sex appeal and the pride of life is everywhere.

So the battle actually begins in the mind and by trusting the Good Shepherd, He will set our minds on good things.

2 Corinthians 10:[SUP]4 [/SUP](For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds [SUP]5 [/SUP]Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [SUP]6 [/SUP]And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Philippians 4:[SUP]4 [/SUP]Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

Psalm 19:[SUP]11 [/SUP]Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.

1 John 3:3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure....[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Romans 6:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 8:[SUP]31 [/SUP]What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? [SUP]32 [/SUP]He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Jude 1:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, [SUP]25 [/SUP]To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[Skinski7]

Originally Posted by Skinski7

Yet in this day and age those who proclaim to have been made pure and claim to have been redeemed from all iniquity and those who actually hold fast to the words of Christ and yield to them are labelled as self-righteous liars who do not have to the truth in them.

Isa_5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

God forbid that one preach that sin must be forsaken BEFORE forgiveness is granted is the mantra of many today. Only Satan would teach such a thing right? It is truly incredible the amount of darkness which abounds in these late days.

Those who proclaim to be made pure and claim to have been redeemed from iniquity should be leading people to Christ. How does one lead people to Christ? This way...

Act_26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Luk_24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Yet in this day and age so many people consider it error to state that a sinner must forsake their sins before forgiveness is granted. The forsaking of rebellion prior to remission is the preaching of repentance for remission of sin.
These people should know who did the work in making them pure and who redeemed them from iniquity. What a foolish statement. This statement denies this aspect...Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

To preach that one has to lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, in the minds of many who believe there is salvation IN sin, is akin to denying that it is Jesus Christ who redeems us from all iniquity (Tit 2:14) and that it is God who works in in us to will and to do of His good pleasure (Php 2:13). They view it as heresy to claim that a sinner HAS TO DO ANYTHING even though Jesus Himself taught that WE MUST BE DOERS! To these deceivers "we do nothing" and it is God that "makes you do," thus the Gospel is perverted into a "trust in Jesus" and "wait on God" and this is why so many professing Christian's ARE STILL IN SIN. True repentance has been ELIMINATED from the Gospel message they preach.

If James himself were to come preach today he would be deemed a heretic for sure. Martin Luther called his writings straw as it pertained to the Gospel message. Is it any wonder that those who ascribe to the doctrines of Luther would decry they "laying aside of all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness" as a precondition of God saving someone? Not at all.

Is a person made pure because they have caused themselves to become sinless??A person is made pure by abiding in Jesus Christ by faith. One CANNOT abide in Jesus Christ UNLESS they YIELD to Him. One CANNOT yield to Him unless they forsake rebellion. Faith and obedience are the same thing. One cannot be faithful and disobedient at the same time. One cannot receive and reject God at the same time. Jesus taught that one CANNOT serve two masters, one is either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. That is what the Bible PLAINLY teaches. Yet many people do not believe the Bible and hold to doctrines where you CAN serve two masters, where you CAN sin and not surely die. Satan is a master theologian who has deceived so many people with this error.

Is a person redeemed from iniquity because they follow the Law perfectly?? This is a classic example of a strawman and is usually an appeal to this particular verse...

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

A Christian is not under the LETTER of the law because they WALK BY FAITH. FAITH WORKS BY LOVE by which FAITH FULFILLS THE LAW. Therefore this appeal to "perfectly following the law" is nonsense.

Faith is a walk with Power as Tommy mentioned earlier.
2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Which is a parallel to what Paul wrote to the Philippians...

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

You see FAITH IS A WORK.

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

It is with a faith that works with power that we walk working out our salvation in fear and trembling thus being DOERS of the word.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Work Out - G2716 - katergazomai
From G2596 and G2038; to work fully, that is, accomplish; by implication to finish, fashion: - cause, do (deed), perform, work (out).

The false teachers deny that WE have to do anything. They are LYING to you. Faith is our part and grace is God's part.

Noah BUILT the Ark by faith. God provided the blueprint by His grace. It was the working together between God and Noah by which Noah was saved from the flood.

Therefore Paul besought that we be workers together with God lest we receive the grace of God in vain...

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

The false teachers will never connect all these passages together. The false teachers will skip over most of them and focus on the MAIN passages they twist out of context in order to establish their lying doctrines.

The reason we receive grace is for obedience.

Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

We access the grace which upholds us by an obedient faith.

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Is a person still in rebellion to God whom is engaged in sins due to yielding to the lusts of the flesh walking by a faith which works by love? No way, they are not. Do not be deceived! The unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom.

The false teachers preach a message where all you do is "trust" and then "God will do all the work for you" instead of preaching that YIELDING is the dynamic by which God does the work in us. They negate the yielding because they deny the aspect of "denying oneself, picking up our cross, and following Jesus."

You don't deny yourself, pickup your cross and follow Jesus by still walking in the lusts of the flesh.

As the original point of this thread, a person who is engaged in pornography use HAS NOT crucified their flesh with its passions and desires and thus they ARE NOT Christ's. Don't be deceived that they are, if they want to be Christ's then they need to REPENT and FORSAKE their rebellion and turn to God and walk in the Spirit.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

The flesh is not crucified by one's own power apart from God, that is a strawman. The flesh is crucified via a broken godly sorrow which works a repentance unto salvation wrought by the convicting power of the Spirit of God which is in the world.

Do we become sons of God because God owes it to us for all the work we have done in forsaking our sin?? God does not owe us anything. It is purely by His grace and mercy that He redeems and forgives anyone. Yet that being so is no way negates the CONDITION of REPENTANCE. You folks CONSTANTLY decry true repentance as somehow a "demand for God to owe us." That is NONSENSE.

Did the Prodigal Son presume on his father restoring him? Well did he? Did the prodigal approach his father and say "look at me, I repented, you owe me." Why do you poeple constantly allude to such nonense.

The prodigal approached the father like this...

Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

Did Nineveh presume on God granting them a repreive?

Jon 3:9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?

So why do you folks keep alluding to foolish strawman like this... "because God owes it to us for all the work we have done in forsaking our sin". Why? Why is the message of having to forsake sin BEFORE forgiveness is granted such an anathema to your mind? Why is it such heresy to you? Why is it akin to denying we need Jesus? Why is it akin to saving ourselves? Why is it prideful and self righteousness? Why is it the equivalent of claiming God owes us?

Be honest with yourself please.

John 1:11-13
[SUP]11 [/SUP]He came unto his own, and his own received him not. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Yes Amen to this passage. I even wrote an article on this. Here is the link should you care to read it...

The Pearl of Great Price: Salvation

Luke 5:31-32
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Amen! REPENTANCE. Repentance is where the REBELLION STOPS!

My notes in red.