Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Whoever is a unbeliever is lost and under the power of the devil, they wont be able to believe the Gospel while lost.
Jesus came to seek and save the lost. If they cannot be saved, neither can anyone...
and then you may as well have said that Jesus undertook a mission that was sure to fail.


"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.” <= Jesus' words in Luke 19:10
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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That's not in any Bible version/translation I've ever read. The versions I've read say "what if." So I'll just stick to what the Bible says and continue believing Paul is being hypothetical. In light of other passages that say God wants all to be saved and doesn't want the wicked to perish, it's literally impossible for me to receive your interpretation as sound.

Romans 9:22

New International Version
What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?

English Standard Version
What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,

King James Bible
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

New American Standard Bible
What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction?

Amplified Bible
What if God, although willing to show His [terrible] wrath and to make His power known, has tolerated with great patience the objects of His wrath [which are] prepared for destruction?
The words what if is indicating what God done.
 
Oct 12, 2021
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Wills can mean different things depending on how it's used, but desiring or yearning for something are acceptable synonyms for wills.
So, you didn't think it necessary to define what YOU meant in writing: "God wills all to be saved."

Can you give a specific example of God willing something and what he willed occurred?

And can you give a specific example of God willing something and what He willed did not occur -and what His 'will' meant in that situation?
 
Jun 20, 2022
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What the verse actually says is the gospel is hid to those who don't believe. When one is confronted with the gospel and does not believe, it becomes hid from them but not forever. In the same way, the gospel is hid from the minds of the nation of Israel, but not forever. Individually, there are Jews hearing the gospel, believing, and are saved.
Verse 4
 

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brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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What the verse actually says is the gospel is hid to those who don't believe. When one is confronted with the gospel and does not believe, it becomes hid from them but not forever. In the same way, the gospel is hid from the minds of the nation of Israel, but not forever. Individually, there are Jews hearing the gospel, believing, and are saved.
The reason for not believing is because the Gospel is being hid from them. If a person is in a lost state, the Gospel is being hidden.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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Jesus came to seek and save the lost. If they cannot be saved, neither can anyone...
and then you may as well have said that Jesus undertook a mission that was sure to fail.


"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.” <= Jesus' words in Luke 19:10
And when He saves one that is lost, then they can believe the Gospel. But understand, the permanently lost, Jesus never came to seek and to save them, only the Lost He saved.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
The reason for not believing is because the Gospel is being hid from them. If a person is in a lost state, the Gospel is being hidden.

The only people the Gospel is being hidden from is the Jews and only that for a time. Blinded for a time in Romans 11
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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The only people the Gospel is being hidden from is the Jews and only that for a time. Blinded for a time in Romans 11
Thats not true, the Gospel is being hid to anyone who is lost. Jews arent the only lost folk
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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But after the example of the Potter and the Clay we have an immediate outcome in the same Chapter where God chooses to graft in the Gentiles.

So it's quite obvious that Paul is explaining God can choose to do as He desires and His desire was to eventually include ALL humanity into the Salvation equation.

Basically, we're given reasons why God only chose the Jews and end with God choosing to include everyone.

Romans 9 completely outlines what we know from the Old Covenant and how it changed to include ALL HUMANITY with the New Covenant.
I appreciate your response and the tenor of it as well. But I wasn't making a doctrinal point.
Like many here I have well defined doctrinal stances. I know what I believe and why. Unlike many, I'm open to hear any argument regardless of the tone or manner of delivery. And I never take things personally even when they are designed to be insulting.
What I would like people to understand is that the bible is written in a way as to be misconstrued, either intentionally or ignorantly. And poor teaching and poor studying models only exacerbate the problem.
Given this, it should seem apparent in a setting such as this, there will be a cornucopia of beliefs. Thus, learning people, and not just their beliefs, is the key to changing hearts and minds. Knowing what is correct is not enough. So at times I ask questions or put forward posts to this end.
Many times what I'm doing is misinterpreted and kindly people like yourself will go to much length to help what appears to be ignorance on my part and I thank you and them for it. There are many fine teachers here who very lovingly and patiently expound the word of God. And as they do many are blessed because there are so many more who view than comment.
So thank you for taking the time to answer.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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I'm not sure why the comments you made. Acts 16 is specifically asking about the salvation the person from their sin condition. Paul and Silas answer together, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
Saved, according to Greek translation means "delivered".


When a babe in Christ has had enough spiritual food to learn to believe on the Lord, he will be saved (delivered) from his ignorance.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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And when He saves one that is lost, then they can believe the Gospel. But understand,
the permanently lost, Jesus never came to seek and to save them, only the Lost He saved.
So like ForestGreenCook, you believe faith is not required for salvation. :unsure:
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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God doesn't fit vessels for destruction. They fit themselves for it. But man is in a fallen estate and apart from God's intervention, he will always fit himself so.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Thats not true, the Gospel is being hid to anyone who is lost. Jews arent the only lost folk
Paul only claims it is veiled, not they are hopeless and can never understand it. He emphasises that the god of this World is blinding them.
 

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kaylagrl

Guest
God doesn't fit vessels for destruction. They fit themselves for it. But man is in a fallen estate and apart from God's intervention, he will always fit himself so.
Yes, of his free will man will choose evil or good. God doesn't create one to be evil and one to be good.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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I agree with you in what you have quoted, I only would differ in that I believe that the offer stands that whosoever may come. Jesus said "If I be lifted up (on the cross) I will draw All men unto Me." I do agree that most will not and cannot receive, not necessarily that GOD willed that unbelief in them, but that as He said "(those) Men love darkness rather than light".
I am not that familiar with hypergrace I just was seeking clarity on that subject myself. But to assure you, I don't believe that I would carry that doctrine.

If I am not mistaken, I believe that the people that looked upon the serpent of brass were the nation of Israel (God's people) who had been disobedient, and were being chastened by God, with the snake bites, telling them to look upon the brass serpent for healing.

God's born again people, today, also look to Jesus for healing.

Do you think that "those men that love darkness rather than light" are depicted in 1 Cor 2:14, as the natural man? Would they be included in "whosoever may come"?