Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#801
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
#801
Runningman said:
No.

“What if” is not a synonym for something that’s a foregone conclusion. Romans 9 contains hypothetical scenarios.

“What if” means “a question that asks someone to imagine what might happen or what might have happened.”

source: The Britannica Dictionary
Click to expand...
Yes, the what if doesnt change anything, God did it. He created some as vessels of wrath and fits them for destruction. Prov 16:4 confirms it as well 4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

The wicked for the day of wrath Job 21:30

That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

Your what if argument is futile
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#802
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
#802
TMS said:
His blood was paid so everyone can be saved.. provision for all of mankind.. but not everyone will be saved because they choose to reject the gift.
........ Men and brethren, what shall we do? ACTS 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 3:19 KJV Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Click to expand...
Sorry but Christs Blood was limited to them He redeemed unto God Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#803
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
#803
TMS said:
A deception of the devil is to make people believe they must be good enough, or must be saved enough before they can come to Jesus and receieve the Holy Spirit.

Jesus loves us to come to Him in any state. All we need to do is realize our need. Realize we are sinners needing Jesus..
Rom 5:7-10
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Click to expand...
Again, until a person is saved, they wont be able to believe in Jesus Christ of the scripture. Now they may believe in a false christ while lost, but not the True Christ
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#804
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#804
brightfame52 said:
Yes, the what if doesnt change anything, God did it. He created some as vessels of wrath and fits them for destruction. Prov 16:4 confirms it as well 4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

The wicked for the day of wrath Job 21:30

That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

Your what if argument is futile
Click to expand...
No.

God didn’t create wicked people. God’s creation was good then people decided to be wicked on their own accord. This is the thesis of the entire Bible and the climax is these wicked people can gain access to grace, mercy, and forgiveness of their sins through their faith in the gospel of Christ.

You’re severely misinterpreting the entire Bible to come to these wild conclusions.

The passages you’re quoting are about people who stay wicked and never repent. In that case, yes they are reserved for judgement. God is clear in the Old Testament He is merciful to the repentant and can give forgiveness. That’s why it’s necessary to actually study this book. All of the presuppositions you’re presenting are totally out of context and disregard God’s mercy explained in the scripture.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#805
Jul 3, 2015
60,154
29,462
113
#805
brightfame52 said:
Salvation has no requirements except what Christ Christ met and fulfilled to save His People. If you believe in requirements for salvation by the sinner, thats law, works, merit salvation.
Click to expand...
Faith is a gift from God. It is not works; it is not legalism. It is Scripture. Without faith it is impossible to please God.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#806
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
#806
Runningman said:
No.

God didn’t create wicked people. God’s creation was good then people decided to be wicked on their own accord. This is the thesis of the entire Bible and the climax is these wicked people can gain access to grace, mercy, and forgiveness of their sins through their faith in the gospel of Christ.

You’re severely misinterpreting the entire Bible to come to these wild conclusions.

The passages you’re quoting are about people who stay wicked and never repent. In that case, yes they are reserved for judgement. God is clear in the Old Testament He is merciful to the repentant and can give forgiveness. That’s why it’s necessary to actually study this book. All of the presuppositions you’re presenting are totally out of context and disregard God’s mercy explained in the scripture.
Click to expand...
I see you not going to accept scripture. Prov 16:4

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
 
MessengerofTruth

MessengerofTruth

Well-known member
#807
Dec 21, 2022
688
434
63
#807
brightfame52 said:
Salvation has no requirements except what Christ Christ met and fulfilled to save His People. If you believe in requirements for salvation by the sinner, thats law, works, merit salvation.
Click to expand...
Jn. 3:18 refutes this. As well as Jn.3:16, 36, 5:24, it goes on and on Belief is central for salvation. And that is not of ourselves but is the gift of faith that we exercise unto salvation. He gives it to every man Rom. 12:3
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

Senior Member
#811
May 27, 2017
994
247
43
usa
christianforumsuncensored.createaforum.com
#811
Nehemiah6 said:
Only the devil would make such a false statement. When you stand before Christ and give account, you will learn whether accusing Christ of being a liar was acceptable. The OP has given you the words of Christ Himself. So your are without excuse.
Click to expand...
Do not blame me for your ungodly Christ dishonoring ideas. Your failure to understand the Covenant of redemption is severely defective.
Without understanding the Covenant, you will never come to truth.
Jesus in Mt.7 declared multitudes will be cast into outer darkness.
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

Senior Member
#812
May 27, 2017
994
247
43
usa
christianforumsuncensored.createaforum.com
#812
Snacks said:
He died for the whole world. Whoever believes in Him shall be saved.
Click to expand...
Those elected are scattered worldwide.
Not every single person, just those elected.
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
 
Snacks

Snacks

Well-known member
#813
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
#813
Iconoclast said:
Those elected are scattered worldwide.
Not every single person, just those elected.
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Click to expand...
You just proved my point.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#814
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#814
brightfame52 said:
I see you not going to accept scripture. Prov 16:4

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Click to expand...
No you don’t see that. What you should be seeing is I’m rejecting your contradictions. Happy New Year.
 
TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#815
Mar 21, 2015
3,923
1,257
113
Australia
#815
brightfame52 said:
Again, until a person is saved, they wont be able to believe in Jesus Christ of the scripture. Now they may believe in a false christ while lost, but not the True Christ
Click to expand...
Are we saved before or after we know Jesus?

If I'm saved and then i come to know the real Jesus = knowing Jesus was not a requirement of salvation.

If I'm not saved and come to know Jesus resulting in salvation = knowing Jesus when unsaved results in being saved.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#816
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
#816
MessengerofTruth said:
Jn. 3:18 refutes this. As well as Jn.3:16, 36, 5:24, it goes on and on Belief is central for salvation. And that is not of ourselves but is the gift of faith that we exercise unto salvation. He gives it to every man Rom. 12:3
Click to expand...
Again Salvation has no requirements save all the requirements Christ Himself fulfilled. If you believe in salvation by requirements you must keep, you are under a principle of law.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#817
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
#817
kaylagrl said:
He can, but He would not be a just God, and we know that God is just to a fault.
Click to expand...
Yes He is Just in doing what He pleases, you need to be careful in replying against God, you remind me of the objectors in Rom 9 who came up with the conclusion you have came up with.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#820
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
#820
Runningman said:
No you don’t see that. What you should be seeing is I’m rejecting your contradictions. Happy New Year.
Click to expand...
Happy New Years to you, and yes you are rejecting clear stated scripture that God made the wicked for the day of evil, which I know to mean the day of their destruction and His wrath as Job indicates Job 21:30

That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

And Paul being the OT scholar he was, understood that God created some men as vessels of wrath and fits them for that day of destruction and wrath Rom 9:21-22

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.