Does God Hate The Unsaved?

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Gr8grace

Guest
#21
#21
Tintin said:
Hating unrighteousness is godly. Not sure where you got this particular teaching of yours. Not the Bible, that's for sure.
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Hating,that's not God for sure. Why do we have to do this to each other?

My post is Biblical.

There is none righteous,none. So does God hate us? No.



Who is righteous? Christ.

What kind of righteousness do we need to be reconciled to God? Perfect righteousness. Christs righteousness.

God is not a respecter of persons, does not matter if we do a little sin or a lot of sin. We are ALL unrighteous before God if we do not have Christ.

When God says He "hates" sin or unrighteousness He is pointing to His integrity and His perfect righteousness, which comes in His Son Jesus Christ.

Hating unrighteousness? No, we see it for what it is. It is something that God is totally devoid of.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#22
#22
atwhatcost said:
God is a sinner? :eek:

Rom. 9:13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
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Hated~~loved less. Esua did not adjust to the Justice of God. Gods Justice was satisfied on the Cross. That is why we need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.

hate is a sin and there is No hate in God.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#23
#23
MarcR said:
The nature of sin is such that God finds sin, and those who practice sin grossly offensive!
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This is what I believe. We offended Gods integrity, there is no sin in God, no darkness. We went against His Character and nature. So we were separated from Him. Doesn't matter if it was one sin or 100000000.

So when God says, He hates sin. He is telling us that it against His character and He is completely devoid of unrighteousness.
 
C

Called4Christ

Guest
#24
#24
First, let us define love as not necessarily the human version of "love",but rather as an action and a set of states of mind:

Love as defined by the bible:
“Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.” (1 Corinthians 13:4-8a)

Now let us ask the question: Does God love everyone as defined above? I believe scripture answers this:

Romans 5:8
[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."[/FONT]

Also, let's consider Jesus's words in Matthew 23:37:
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under herwings, and ye would not!
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#25
#25
MarcR said:
The English language is not well suited to paradox; simultaneously true conflicting statements.


The nature of sin is such that God finds sin, and those who practice sin grossly offensive!

The nature of God is such that He does not want the consequence of sin to destroy us.

God, in love, mercy, and grace; took upon Himself the consequence of our sin(s) and provided for our restoration and reconciliation.

We must choose to either accept His provision for our sin(s), on His terms; or take the consequence of sin back upon ourselves when we reject His provision.
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Marc,

If you want to continue?

No man is going to face the consequence of Judgment(Condemnation) for their sins. Jesus Christ paid the price for all men.

We are still under the law of personal volition and reaping what we sow in our sins. Christ paid the condemnation price for our sins, but he did not put a stop to sin. So we still reap what we sow, but no man is going to be condemned for them.

Even, unbelief is paid for. Unbelief brings the unbeliever to the GWT and they are judged by their evil(human good) deeds.

All sin is evil, but not all evil is sin.......human good,self righteousness.


New American Standard Bible
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

All sin is paid for, so all unbelievers get a chance to "plead their case" with "being good enough" And their good deeds done in the flesh are what they are judged by. This is why we see levels(more bearable) of torment in the LoF.


This is why religion is our number one enemy.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#26
#26
Gr8grace said:
Hating,that's not God for sure. Why do we have to do this to each other?

My post is Biblical.

There is none righteous,none. So does God hate us? No.
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Does God hate us? No. He is Love, He is Life, but He is also Truth. He is holy and righteous and can't abide sin. Does He hate sin, death and the devil and the consequences of sin? Heck, yes! You better believe it. The Bible shows this over and over again. It's pretty simple. Not sure why you feel the need to complicate such things.
 
S

sltaylor

Guest
#27
#27
The whole world has been declared a prisoner of sin.
For God so loved the whole world that he sent his son...this world was the whole world who was a prisoner of sin that he sent his son for. If anyone can argue the world wasn't full of sinners before the son then go ahead. But we all know that isn't true.

While it is true scriptures declare that the wicked his soul despises, that's something completely different, those are specifically the weeds he didn't plant, and we were all at one time God's enemies, not according to me, but Paul. If God didn't love sinners he would have never sent his son. Period. No more need for discussion. The fact that he sent his son to save his very 'enemies' should be good enough.


The healthy do not need a doctor, but the sick, and Jesus is ultimate physician.
 
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MarcR

MarcR

Senior Member
#28
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#28
Gr8grace said:
Marc,

If you want to continue?

No man is going to face the consequence of Judgment(Condemnation) for their sins. Jesus Christ paid the price for all men.

We are still under the law of personal volition and reaping what we sow in our sins. Christ paid the condemnation price for our sins, but he did not put a stop to sin. So we still reap what we sow, but no man is going to be condemned for them.

Even, unbelief is paid for. Unbelief brings the unbeliever to the GWT and they are judged by their evil(human good) deeds.

All sin is evil, but not all evil is sin.......human good,self righteousness.


New American Standard Bible
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

All sin is paid for, so all unbelievers get a chance to "plead their case" with "being good enough" And their good deeds done in the flesh are what they are judged by. This is why we see levels(more bearable) of torment in the LoF.


This is why religion is our number one enemy.
Click to expand...

I agree that no person will be condemned for their sin. All sin was forgiven on the cross. The only thing that brings condemnation back on any person is their rejection of Jesus' provision for their sin(s).

Sadly, Scripture informs us that many will choose to bring this condemnation on themselves.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#29
#29
Gr8grace said:
Hating,that's not God for sure. Why do we have to do this to each other?

My post is Biblical.

There is none righteous,none. So does God hate us? No.



Who is righteous? Christ.

What kind of righteousness do we need to be reconciled to God? Perfect righteousness. Christs righteousness.

God is not a respecter of persons, does not matter if we do a little sin or a lot of sin. We are ALL unrighteous before God if we do not have Christ.

When God says He "hates" sin or unrighteousness He is pointing to His integrity and His perfect righteousness, which comes in His Son Jesus Christ.

Hating unrighteousness? No, we see it for what it is. It is something that God is totally devoid of.
Click to expand...
No, it really isn't. I finally got it. You have a different gospel and a different god.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#30
#30
sltaylor said:
The whole world has been declared a prisoner of sin.
For God so loved the whole world that he sent his son...this world was the whole world who was a prisoner of sin that he sent his son for. If anyone can argue the world wasn't full of sinners before the son then go ahead. But we all know that isn't true.

While it is true scriptures declare that the wicked his soul despises, that's something completely different, those are specifically the weeds he didn't plant, and we were all at one time God's enemies, not according to me, but Paul. If God didn't love sinners he would have never sent his son. Period. No more need for discussion. The fact that he sent his son to save his very 'enemies' should be good enough.


The healthy do not need a doctor, but the sick, and Jesus is ultimate physician.
Click to expand...
Keep reading. Jesus neither started nor finished what he had to say in John 3:16 only. AND, when you read it as a whole, you understand there is no "whole" in that verse for a reason.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#31
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#31
To squeeze the last bit of toothpaste out of this tube, we can at least safely say God's 'hate' of the unsaved was not His original intent.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (Mat 25:41)
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
#32
#32
crossnote said:
To squeeze the last bit of toothpaste out of this tube, we can at least safely say God's 'hate' of the unsaved was not His original intent.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (Mat 25:41)
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Meh. Sorry. Not so much "we" there. At least one of us thinks God knew what he was doing all along and before all long.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#33
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#33
atwhatcost said:
Meh. Sorry. Not so much "we" there. At least one of us thinks God knew what he was doing all along and before all long.
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If you're saying that God predestined certain ones for eternal destruction that would seem to run counter to ...prepared for the devil and his angels.

Why didn't God say 'prepared for you'?

I can go as far as predestination, but baby no double bubbles.:cool:
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#34
#34
crossnote said:
If you're saying that God predestined certain ones for eternal destruction that would seem to run counter to ...prepared for the devil and his angels.

Why didn't God say 'prepared for you'?

I can go as far as predestination, but baby no double bubbles.:cool:
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Ut oh. I thought we've been down this discussion before. Yupper. I'm a Presby, so, yupper, predestined is a real thing to me. And not even with the "because he foreknew" clause, since God holds all truths at once with no effort. (That omniscient thing.) So, the house I live in now (and will actually own in 2022), was made for others originally. Does that mean I can't have it now?

Hell may well have been the place God created for the fallen angels, but he made it big enough to fit all the predestined to hellers too.

Hey, seriously. You don't have to agree. I get many people want to wring my neck after a while of this discussion. Not a problem (except I don't like getting my neck wringed. Picky, picky, picky. lol) But, either which way, I kill off the "we" in your sentence. It seems Christians can rarely make a safe "we all agree" sentence. lol
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#35
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#35
atwhatcost said:
Ut oh. I thought we've been down this discussion before. Yupper. I'm a Presby, so, yupper, predestined is a real thing to me. And not even with the "because he foreknew" clause, since God holds all truths at once with no effort. (That omniscient thing.) So, the house I live in now (and will actually own in 2022), was made for others originally. Does that mean I can't have it now?

Hell may well have been the place God created for the fallen angels, but he made it big enough to fit all the predestined to hellers too.

Hey, seriously. You don't have to agree. I get many people want to wring my neck after a while of this discussion. Not a problem (except I don't like getting my neck wringed. Picky, picky, picky. lol) But, either which way, I kill off the "we" in your sentence. It seems Christians can rarely make a safe "we all agree" sentence. lol
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I didn't say predestination hon, I was referring to double predestination.
Scripture definitely speaks in terms of predestination of the elect (Eph 1)
But only man's reason carries it further into uncharted/unbiblical waters of double bubbles :)
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#36
#36
crossnote said:
I didn't say predestination hon, I was referring to double predestination.
Scripture definitely speaks in terms of predestination of the elect (Eph 1)
But only man's reason carries it further into uncharted/unbiblical waters of double bubbles :)
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What on earth is double predestination?
 
MarcR

MarcR

Senior Member
#37
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#37
Tintin said:
What on earth is double predestination?
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Predestination is: the saved are predestined to be saved. Double predestination is: the unsaved are predestined to be unsaved as well.

The alternative is that the predestination of the saved is based on God's uninfluenced foreknowledge of who will accept Jesus' provision for their sin(s).
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#38
#38
MarcR said:
Predestination is: the saved are predestined to be saved. Double predestination is: the unsaved are predestined to be unsaved as well.

The alternative is that the predestination of the saved is based on God's uninfluenced foreknowledge of who will accept Jesus' provision for their sin(s).
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Thanks, brother. That makes sense, I've just never heard the term before. Goodness me! Double predestination doesn't sound like a biblically-sound teaching.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#39
#39
The whole predestination thing or not, is an issue I have never really been able
to make up my mind about I lean about 60/40 towards PD. But I definately
know God knew me and my family before I was born!

Discussions on this remind me of my job, I work for a government law enforcement
department (not the police so no need to worry if you have a guilty conscience that's
between you and God :p).

As a case worker I often work through a case where someone is or has been
doing something wrong and investigations are ongoing still.
I can't tell them what I know about them in case it tips them off and they
destroy evidence.

They know what they have been doing, but are not certain if I know but hope
I don't.

So often during conversations this little game is played out where:

I know what they are up to.
They know what they are up to.
I know, they don't know that I know and I'm not gonna tell um.
They think I might know what they know, but hope I don't know and
try to find out what I know, but won't say what they know in case I don't know.
But I know they are trying to find out what I know and as far as they know,
i know nothing. :D

I think the PD discussions tend to go along similar lines!
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#40
Sep 4, 2013
30,670
6,860
113
#40
Miri said:
The whole predestination thing or not, is an issue I have never really been able
to make up my mind about I lean about 60/40 towards PD. But I definately
know God knew me and my family before I was born!

Discussions on this remind me of my job, I work for a government law enforcement
department (not the police so no need to worry if you have a guilty conscience that's
between you and God :p).

As a case worker I often work through a case where someone is or has been
doing something wrong and investigations are ongoing still.
I can't tell them what I know about them in case it tips them off and they
destroy evidence.

They know what they have been doing, but are not certain if I know but hope
I don't.

So often during conversations this little game is played out where:

I know what they are up to.
They know what they are up to.
I know, they don't know that I know and I'm not gonna tell um.
They think I might know what they know, but hope I don't know and
try to find out what I know, but won't say what they know in case I don't know.
But I know they are trying to find out what I know and as far as they know,
i know nothing. :D

I think the PD discussions tend to go along similar lines!
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Calvin's ideology of predestination discounts the FOREKNOWING stated in Scripture. Almost every time when folks cite the "whom He did predestine" scripture, they omit the firs statement............"Whom He did foreknow......." It also completely discounts "free will." This is an ideology that I will never abide by. To do so absolves man of ANY accountability for their actions/words during their lives. Simply because WHATEVER man does or does not do/say was PREDESTINED by God that they would do or not do or say. Therefore, man had NO CHOICE in the matter, and it is God who caused it all.

Blaming God for our sinful decisions doesn't seem quite right in my opinion. You?
 
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