Does God Hear Prayers of Backslidden Christians?
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I'm not saying that at all. 
She IS saved. But MY unforgiveness of her is something I'm desperately trying to deal with...
Even if I didn't forgive her, she wouldn't go to hell.
She IS saved. But MY unforgiveness of her is something I'm desperately trying to deal with...Even if I didn't forgive her, she wouldn't go to hell.
I asked if you hold that much unforgiveness that you would WANT her to go to hell and the second death.
This seems to be your real question. I've asked a similar question, can I forgive somebody who has died? I asked it originally because I couldn't bring myself to forgive the person when he was alive. I believe the answer to this is yes, because it came from my heart. I Believe that makes it different. But you MUST forgive, no way around it, and from your heart. Doesn't mean pain and/or bitterness disappear right away. Pray that God will help you separate that pain/bitterness enough to allow you to do it, which I believe God can do, so that you can forgive her.
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Telling someone they MUST forgive will not get them there.
Telling them to take it to Jesus and ADMIT what is in their heart is the way to it.
He wants honesty. He wants us to not withhold our heart from Him.
If she goes to Him and admits it, she is walking in the truth.
If she then leaves it to Him to fix, even if she has no idea how He will accomplish it, that's trust. Faith.
That's all He asks. Honesty and trust.
Telling them to take it to Jesus and ADMIT what is in their heart is the way to it.
He wants honesty. He wants us to not withhold our heart from Him.
If she goes to Him and admits it, she is walking in the truth.
If she then leaves it to Him to fix, even if she has no idea how He will accomplish it, that's trust. Faith.
That's all He asks. Honesty and trust.
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D
OK, I'll be even more specific. What if someone is struggling with the issue of forgiveness? They're trying to forgive someone for hurts of the past (and present) that they've carried all these years. Yes, I'm talking about myself. I've tried and tried, and still AM, but I'm not sure I can forgive or even if I truly can.. Time isn't on my side, and if I can't forgive these people, then I won't be forgiven and probably won't be allowed into heaven. :/
What if someone is struggling with the issue of forgiveness? They're trying to forgive someone for hurts of the past (and present) that they've carried all these years. Yes, I'm talking about myself. I've tried and tried, and still AM, but I'm not sure I can forgive or even if I truly can.. Time isn't on my side, and if I can't forgive these people, then I won't be forgiven and probably won't be allowed into heaven. :/
What changed? God, right? He gave us new life, and he gave us him.
So, what now? Do we go back to "I tried?" Because we still have the skill levels we had before he regenerated us. 0!
So, the only way we can do good is through Christ working in us.
Does that mean our good gets to 100% right away? Nope. Doesn't even mean we get to 100% in 70 years with the Lord. Our warring members (us) are always at war with God in us. (Paul said this somewhere in Romans. To me, Paul was the most spirit-filled guy ever, apart from Jesus himself. If he was still going through this, I'm never going to get past going through this in this body.)
What it does mean is when we trust the Lord enough to let him take over where we failed, ability hits immediately. HIS ability, not ours.
Doesn't that sound like we ought to be able to forgive those who have done some truly crappy things to us? It really does. And, it really works, except for one little detail -- warring members.
We give it to the Lord, and then take it back. I can bet you have given it to the Lord and have forgiven the people in your past.
And then you took it back. I know this, because I do it too. It's not that we don't forgive, it's we take it back.
Every time you discover you take it back, give it again. Hand it to Jesus to deal with. He really really does deal with it. He gives us the knowing we have forgiven and the peace in that forgiving. Even the love in that forgiving. (I do not want to hang out with my rapists. I do pray the Lord will forgive them, and give them his redemption. One day, we may meet again in heaven. As cool a thing as Paul meeting Stephen in heaven. That is the love the Lord gave me for those rapists.)
It's like yoyoing. Give, take back, give, take back. It's really like that at first, but we can see the giving part last a little longer, and a little longer, and longer still. That too is the Lord doing something in us. He teaches us how pigheaded, stubborn and horrible we are, yet he still loves us. And because he loves us, he gives what is needed to love them.
You may be frustrated because you keep it when you take it back. Instead, the minute you realize it's back in your hands, give it back to the Lord. It takes a while to finally get to the point of not finding it in our hands. I'm not to that point yet, but it's more often in his hands than mine.
It's only been 40 years, yeesh! Don't rush me.
OK, I'll be even more specific. What if someone is struggling with the issue of forgiveness? They're trying to forgive someone for hurts of the past (and present) that they've carried all these years. Yes, I'm talking about myself. I've tried and tried, and still AM, but I'm not sure I can forgive or even if I truly can.. Time isn't on my side, and if I can't forgive these people, then I won't be forgiven and probably won't be allowed into heaven. :/
What if someone is struggling with the issue of forgiveness? They're trying to forgive someone for hurts of the past (and present) that they've carried all these years. Yes, I'm talking about myself. I've tried and tried, and still AM, but I'm not sure I can forgive or even if I truly can.. Time isn't on my side, and if I can't forgive these people, then I won't be forgiven and probably won't be allowed into heaven. :/
Still it is certainly God's will that you forgive them. Forgiving them is more for your benefit than for theirs and does NOT require that you have direct contact with them. Al that is necessary is that you no longer harbor ill will toward them, or wish them harm. If you ask God to help you forgive them, He certainly will.
OK, I'll be even more specific. What if someone is struggling with the issue of forgiveness? They're trying to forgive someone for hurts of the past (and present) that they've carried all these years. Yes, I'm talking about myself. I've tried and tried, and still AM, but I'm not sure I can forgive or even if I truly can.. Time isn't on my side, and if I can't forgive these people, then I won't be forgiven and probably won't be allowed into heaven. :/
What if someone is struggling with the issue of forgiveness? They're trying to forgive someone for hurts of the past (and present) that they've carried all these years. Yes, I'm talking about myself. I've tried and tried, and still AM, but I'm not sure I can forgive or even if I truly can.. Time isn't on my side, and if I can't forgive these people, then I won't be forgiven and probably won't be allowed into heaven. :/
Mat 18:21 Then Peter came up and said to him, "Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?" 22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you seven times, but seventy-seven times. ESV
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Good verse! My translation says: if I had not confessed the sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened. Another version says:if I had cherished iniquity in my heart.
She has confessed it. It sounds like she's confessed it a lot. She doesn't hold it in her heart and cherish it, trying to hide it from Him. She's upfront with Him about it. That's all He requires. He'll do the rest.
She has confessed it. It sounds like she's confessed it a lot. She doesn't hold it in her heart and cherish it, trying to hide it from Him. She's upfront with Him about it. That's all He requires. He'll do the rest.
I actually got a chuckle out of your post after reading lynns post. I have had to forgive the same person for just one thing they did to me seventy-seven times. They didn't keep doing other bad things to me, just the one thing! The reason I had to do the forgiving so many times is because, like lynn said, I kept taking it back. So I saw the verse a little differently than I ever have.
Blue ladybug, fearless leader of the orange kitty battalion! She loves orange tabbies and is innocent as decreed by Pottersclay who states that Scripture says that all people who love orange tabbies are innocent. Truthtalk says that God created the world, and then He created wonderful orange tabbies. Joefizz has elected blue ladybug as captain of the brave orange kitty army!
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Crossnote [/FONT]says, “S[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]ince orange is a compromise between red and yellow, and since blue is a [/FONT]primary color, [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]therefore that which has been said above, let it be so[/FONT]!. (only someone keep 'tabbies' on Blue
)
Interesting that we find forgiveness so difficult yet Jesus came from heaven and forgave those who crucified Him. We forgive those whom we love and He forgave those who hated Him.
How can I harbor hatred in my heart in the Light of Jesus love for me? Not perfected but humbled the more I consider it.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
How can I harbor hatred in my heart in the Light of Jesus love for me? Not perfected but humbled the more I consider it.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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I think we need to be more and more careful on how we hear not to take away what we hear.
My two cents..
When Christ who dwells in us seeks to restore fellowship, Yes. Or like what he told the Israelite's ."When I see the blood."
First things first.As always he must to the first works, just as we are informed in John 6 below.
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. Joh 6:28
We cannot believe in or on Him unless he first works in us. Us believing Him is not by the work of the imagination of our own hearts....as that by which we can believe to the salvation of our soul. I would think we believe Him as the anchor of our souls, with our new living faith as our new souls.
The unbelieving(no faith)Jews turned that upside down taking away the understanding of the Potter who forms Christ in us.as if the work says to the Potter you made me not, or like; I am a self-made man.
I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth. Jer 31:18-19
Strongs lexicon...05162 nacham {naw-kham'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 1344; v
AV - comfort 57, repent 41, comforter 9, ease 1; 108to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted 1a) (Niphal) 1a1) to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion 1a2) to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent 1a3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1a4) to comfort oneself, ease oneself 1b) (Piel) to comfort, console 1c) (Pual) to be comforted, be consoled 1d) (Hithpael) 1d1) to be sorry, have compassion 1d2) to rue, repent of 1d3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1d4) to ease oneself
He is the Spirit of repentance/comfort that works in us. When he first turns us then we can comfort/repent ourselves knowing He that began the good work in us will finish it. Then we can feel childish and are encouraged by the same spirit of faith according as it is written, to grow in Christ.Knowing he casues the gwroth
Jeremiah makes what I think is an excellent point.In Jeremiah 32 we have Ephraim a word God designed when defined = "double ash-heap: I shall be doubly fruitful"
A picture of salvation raised from the ash heap as a new creature doubly fruitful. Bemoaning or caught between a rock and a hard place .proclaiming God has chastened him and because of that he was chastened and not that he chastened his own self. .
He described his self as a young bull not accustomed to the yoke, not yet tamed, using that un-clean animal to represent a unbeliever, unconverted mankind.. the same was used in a ceremonial law .
And thou shalt cause a bullock to be brought before the tabernacle of the congregation: and Aaron and his sons shall put their hands upon the head of the bullock.And thou shalt kill the bullock before the LORD, by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.And thou shalt take of the blood of the bullock, and put it upon the horns of the altar with thy finger, and pour all the blood beside the bottom of the altar. Exo 29:10
If God does not do the first work of turning us no man could repent.
In most cases that I am familiar with the word repent mean to turn around and change ones mind. The problem with that is who does the working of turning so the mind can be changed? Many have made it into a works righteousness as something they could do as the first work . I would think either he does all the work or he does none.
My two cents..
When Christ who dwells in us seeks to restore fellowship, Yes. Or like what he told the Israelite's ."When I see the blood."
First things first.As always he must to the first works, just as we are informed in John 6 below.
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. Joh 6:28
We cannot believe in or on Him unless he first works in us. Us believing Him is not by the work of the imagination of our own hearts....as that by which we can believe to the salvation of our soul. I would think we believe Him as the anchor of our souls, with our new living faith as our new souls.
The unbelieving(no faith)Jews turned that upside down taking away the understanding of the Potter who forms Christ in us.as if the work says to the Potter you made me not, or like; I am a self-made man.
I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth. Jer 31:18-19
Strongs lexicon...05162 nacham {naw-kham'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 1344; v
AV - comfort 57, repent 41, comforter 9, ease 1; 108to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted 1a) (Niphal) 1a1) to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion 1a2) to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent 1a3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1a4) to comfort oneself, ease oneself 1b) (Piel) to comfort, console 1c) (Pual) to be comforted, be consoled 1d) (Hithpael) 1d1) to be sorry, have compassion 1d2) to rue, repent of 1d3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1d4) to ease oneself
He is the Spirit of repentance/comfort that works in us. When he first turns us then we can comfort/repent ourselves knowing He that began the good work in us will finish it. Then we can feel childish and are encouraged by the same spirit of faith according as it is written, to grow in Christ.Knowing he casues the gwroth
Jeremiah makes what I think is an excellent point.In Jeremiah 32 we have Ephraim a word God designed when defined = "double ash-heap: I shall be doubly fruitful"
A picture of salvation raised from the ash heap as a new creature doubly fruitful. Bemoaning or caught between a rock and a hard place .proclaiming God has chastened him and because of that he was chastened and not that he chastened his own self. .
He described his self as a young bull not accustomed to the yoke, not yet tamed, using that un-clean animal to represent a unbeliever, unconverted mankind.. the same was used in a ceremonial law .
And thou shalt cause a bullock to be brought before the tabernacle of the congregation: and Aaron and his sons shall put their hands upon the head of the bullock.And thou shalt kill the bullock before the LORD, by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.And thou shalt take of the blood of the bullock, and put it upon the horns of the altar with thy finger, and pour all the blood beside the bottom of the altar. Exo 29:10
If God does not do the first work of turning us no man could repent.
In most cases that I am familiar with the word repent mean to turn around and change ones mind. The problem with that is who does the working of turning so the mind can be changed? Many have made it into a works righteousness as something they could do as the first work . I would think either he does all the work or he does none.
You know that your mother's going to heaven but she caused you much pain. I assume this means that her life has now been transformed by her faith. If this is true, why is it that you can't do the same.
For someone to cause pain, they probably were subjected to the same. Maybe you can start with compassion or empathy for what she may have had to endure and come to forgiveness through that.
Unforgiveness is bitterness. You don't want that in your heart. Give it to Jesus. He gave everything for you because he loves you. He can handle it. When bitterness comes into your thoughts, surrender it to him immediately. Don't dwell on it. That's torment and we all know who the author of that is.
For someone to cause pain, they probably were subjected to the same. Maybe you can start with compassion or empathy for what she may have had to endure and come to forgiveness through that.
Unforgiveness is bitterness. You don't want that in your heart. Give it to Jesus. He gave everything for you because he loves you. He can handle it. When bitterness comes into your thoughts, surrender it to him immediately. Don't dwell on it. That's torment and we all know who the author of that is.
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Yes, she had a bad childhood also.. My 2 older sisters (they claim) were physically abused by her growing up. I'm the baby of the family, so by the time I was old enough to realize I had a brother and sisters, they were all grown up and out of the house. Mom's treatment of ME wasn't physical, but it WAS emotional and mental abuse. I am trying to just remember that she had a bad childhood, just as we did, and that is why she and my oldest sister are so nasty and bitter..
Honestly, with my sister, I think she just hates herself, the world and everyone in it. She has told me that I grew up pretty much an only child, and had everything handed to me on a platter. And that's NOT true at all. I didn't have anything handed to me. Did I get more attention as a kid, than she and my other sister did? Yes, I did, because I was diagnosed with epilepsy at age 5, so my parents have helped me alot during my life. They let me live at home until I was 21, they found me my first apartment, they also took me to appointments and shopping and such.
I think my sister is envious, or bitter, because my parents did, and do, more for me than they did for her. She's lucky, she had a job all these years, she has a car, and a house she inherited when the guy who owned it died. I can't get a license because of my seizures. I have to take the bus wherever I need to go. More so now that mom and dad are elderly..
Honestly, with my sister, I think she just hates herself, the world and everyone in it. She has told me that I grew up pretty much an only child, and had everything handed to me on a platter. And that's NOT true at all. I didn't have anything handed to me. Did I get more attention as a kid, than she and my other sister did? Yes, I did, because I was diagnosed with epilepsy at age 5, so my parents have helped me alot during my life. They let me live at home until I was 21, they found me my first apartment, they also took me to appointments and shopping and such.
I think my sister is envious, or bitter, because my parents did, and do, more for me than they did for her. She's lucky, she had a job all these years, she has a car, and a house she inherited when the guy who owned it died. I can't get a license because of my seizures. I have to take the bus wherever I need to go. More so now that mom and dad are elderly..
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