Does God hide truth from the world?

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garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,196
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#1
Concerning Matthew 13, where Christ says that He has spoken in parables in order that there will be those that will see, "and yet they will not see. They will hear, but will never understand." In other words God has hidden truth from certain individuals.

The question really is why would God do this? This doesn't seem fair, if they were really seeking for Christ? Can we seek after him or does he seek after us? What's the purpose of parables ?

I don't think that God is not hiding information from those who are really seeking Christ in respect to those who have humbled themselves before God and realize their spiritual bankruptcy, and cry out to God for mercy, and in faith trust that what God has declared is true and trustworthy. I believe God the Holy Spirit will open their eyes, give them ears to hear what the Spirit is saying and they will by faith see the truth.

It would seem from my experiences that most of the people of the world think they are wiser than God in their own eyes. They really believe that they can know truth, that they can decide what is true or what is not true. They are not ready to humble themselves. They are ready to pick and choose from the Bible what they want or what they don't want. In other words, they want to design a religion that meets their specifications rather than those of God.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
538
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#2
There are eternal truths that carnal minds are not ready to accept.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
4,509
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#3
Acts 28 -

23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
297
128
43
#4
The question really is why would God do this?
The answer is in verse 15: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest
at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

This doesn't seem fair, if they were really seeking for Christ?
They weren't seeking Him. A seeker finds Him: ...ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. Jer. 29:13

Can we seek after him or does he seek after us?
Both.

What's the purpose of parables ?
To teach those who are interested and repel those who should be but aren't.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
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#5
If peopel are sincere, they will continually seek YHWH with all their heart for all their days. Many give no real effort that is their heart is not in it... Any committed to Yah will gain understanding guided by Him...

Jeremiah 29:13-14,, And you shall seek Me, and shall find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. 14 And I shall be found by you,’ declares יהוה, ’and I shall turn back your captivity, and shall gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you, declares יהוה. And I shall bring you back to the place from which I have exiled you.”





Matthew 7:7-11, “Ask and it shall be given to you, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it shall be opened. Or is there a man among you who, if his son asks for bread, shall give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, shall he give him a snake? If you then, being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your Father who is in the heavens give what is good to those who ask Him!”





Psalm 32:8 “I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will counsel you with my eye upon you”





Proverbs 3:5-7, “Trust in יהוה with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; Know Him in all your ways, And He makes all your paths straight Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear יהוה and turn away from evil.”
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#6
Concerning Matthew 13, where Christ says that He has spoken in parables in order that there will be those that will see, "and yet they will not see. They will hear, but will never understand." In other words God has hidden truth from certain individuals.

The question really is why would God do this? This doesn't seem fair, if they were really seeking for Christ? Can we seek after him or does he seek after us? What's the purpose of parables ?

I don't think that God is not hiding information from those who are really seeking Christ in respect to those who have humbled themselves before God and realize their spiritual bankruptcy, and cry out to God for mercy, and in faith trust that what God has declared is true and trustworthy. I believe God the Holy Spirit will open their eyes, give them ears to hear what the Spirit is saying and they will by faith see the truth.

It would seem from my experiences that most of the people of the world think they are wiser than God in their own eyes. They really believe that they can know truth, that they can decide what is true or what is not true. They are not ready to humble themselves. They are ready to pick and choose from the Bible what they want or what they don't want. In other words, they want to design a religion that meets their specifications rather than those of God.
I think the reason for this is given us in the example of the very first deception.

Gen. 3:
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Notice the first thing the serpent did was quote parts of God's Words. Now all of them, because he would have condemned himself if he quoted all of God's Words.

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


This caused the woman to listen to the serpent and consider what he was saying instead of running to her husband for instruction.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Notice the very first thing to serpent did was convince Eve that she was already saved. Already immortal. All set. This is important to consider.

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Reject God's Word and lean on your won vision) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Then the serpent convinces the woman that God's instructions are against her. that they will keep her burdened, blind, in prison. That God doesn't have her best interest at heart. That God is unjust, but if she would listen to her new friend, she could be free from the burdensome "Yoke" of an unjust God's unjust instructions.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

So after she was convinced that she was already saved, and that God's instructions were beneath her, she rejected them. And she gave this same rejection to those around her.

I find this lesson very encouraging, and informative. Praise Him and His Wisdom for showing all mankind the key deception from the very beginning.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,886
8,502
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#7
Notice the very first thing to serpent did was convince Eve that she was already saved. Already immortal. All set. This is important to consider.
given that before this there was no sin in the world, what exactly do you think she was 'not saved' from?
why would she not be at that time immortal?


isn't your implication that in a sinless world, in a sinless state, Adam and the Woman were already 'lost' and that they were already in a state of death?

could you explain that? seems important to consider.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
538
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#8
given that before this there was no sin in the world, what exactly do you think she was 'not saved' from?
why would she not be at that time immortal?


isn't your implication that in a sinless world, in a sinless state, Adam and the Woman were already 'lost' and that they were already in a state of death?

could you explain that? seems important to consider.
Good post. The world was without sin and Adam and Eve were not sinners in the beginning.
Only through Satan's deception did sin ultimately enter the world. Because Eve followed Satan's guidance, Adam trusted Eve's guidance, and by Adam, the first Adam , sin , transgression of God's laws, entered the world.
Why would God permit a far more wise adversary to enter paradise and tempt innocent people?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#9
given that before this there was no sin in the world, what exactly do you think she was 'not saved' from?
why would she not be at that time immortal?


isn't your implication that in a sinless world, in a sinless state, Adam and the Woman were already 'lost' and that they were already in a state of death?

could you explain that? seems important to consider.
You are mistaken. There was Law, therefore there was sin.

Gen. 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: (Law) for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Wages of transgression of God's Law, sin, which is death )

An immortal person can not die. Satan is immortal, mankind, including Adam and Eve were not, therefore they could die.

AS it is written;

Rom. 11:
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Man is not immortal as "many" who come in Christ's name preach.

1 Cor. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
31,370
9,485
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#10
Notice the very first thing to serpent did was convince Eve that she was already saved. Already immortal. All set. This is important to consider.
The serpent said to Eve what many Christians say to this very day: "You will not surely die."
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,137
494
83
#11
They ate from the tree of life in the garden, they were not immortal.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#13
There is no record of A&E eating from that tree. The Tree of Life prefigures Christ.
Adam and Eve were allowed to eat from the tree of life and after the ate from the forbidden tree this happened:

Genesis 3:23-24,23 so יהוה Elohim sent him out of the garden of Ěḏen to till the ground from which he was taken,"24 and He drove the man out. And He placed keruḇim at the east of the garden of Ěḏen, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life."

While it is not expressely written it would imply beofre that they were eating of it...
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
31,370
9,485
113
#14
Adam and Eve were allowed to eat from the tree of life and after the ate from the forbidden tree this happened:

Genesis 3:23-24,23 so יהוה Elohim sent him out of the garden of Ěḏen to till the ground from which he was taken,"24 and He drove the man out. And He placed keruḇim at the east of the garden of Ěḏen, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life."

While it is not expressely written it would imply beofre that they were eating of it...
Adam and Eve were allowed to eat from the Tree of Life, but there is no record of their having done so, and quite the contrary. The way I read it, it is strongly implied that they did NOT eat of the Tree of Life, for God guards it from Adam and Eve expressly to prevent them from eating of it, and living forever in their fallen state. Genesis 3:22~

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,886
8,502
113
#15
You are mistaken. There was Law, therefore there was sin

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned — to be sure, sin was in the world before the Law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
(Romans 5:12-13)
sin was in the world before the Woman was even created?
are you saying that "sin entered the world through one man" is in reference to Adam having been created and put in the garden, not in reference to him taking from the tree?
by giving a command to Adam, did God introduce sin into the world?
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
538
113
#16
You are mistaken. There was Law, therefore there was sin.

Gen. 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: (Law) for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Wages of transgression of God's Law, sin, which is death )

An immortal person can not die. Satan is immortal, mankind, including Adam and Eve were not, therefore they could die.

AS it is written;

Rom. 11:
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Man is not immortal as "many" who come in Christ's name preach.

1 Cor. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
There was no sin in the world until Adam ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And Adam had eaten of the apple after Eve did.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,886
8,502
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#17
Adam and Eve were allowed to eat from the Tree of Life, but there is no record of their having done so, and quite the contrary. The way I read it, it is strongly implied that they did NOT eat of the Tree of Life, for God guards it from Adam and Eve expressly to prevent them from eating of it, and living forever in their fallen state. Genesis 3:22~

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
this could also mean that eating from the tree of life after having eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil would have had a significant and undesired outcome.

if God meant to prevent them from eating from the tree of life altogether, why didn't He command Adam not to? He commanded not to eat of one of the trees in the midst of the garden, but not the other. it makes sense then, that it is only in conjunction with eating of the other tree that they must not eat of the tree of life.

it could be that if they ate of the the tree of life in the state of death that they were in after having eaten the forbidden fruit, they would be in an eternal state of death -- living forever, dead. in this case there is no reason to think that they did not eat of the tree of life beforehand, even regularly -- because death didn't enter the world until sin ((Romans 5:12-13)). if there was no death, then they had life.

if they did not have life before they sinned, then they had death: and God created them in death, and eating from the tree and thus receiving death didn't really change anything; they were going to die anyway. which seems to be studydude's position .. ? which puts him in agreement with the Serpent, in a way, who was deceiving the Woman, telling her there wouldn't be any real change of position.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
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#18
Adam and Eve were allowed to eat from the Tree of Life, but there is no record of their having done so, and quite the contrary. The way I read it, it is strongly implied that they did NOT eat of the Tree of Life, for God guards it from Adam and Eve expressly to prevent them from eating of it, and living forever in their fallen state. Genesis 3:22~

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
Yes this was after they ate from the forbidden tree. They were told to eat of every tree except the tree of knowledge of good and evil... Only after they transgressed this Instruction did the verses you and I quoted were spoken/took action...

Genesis 2:15-17,15 And יהוה Elohim took the man and put him in the garden of Ěḏen to work it and to guard it."16 And יהוה Elohim commanded the man, saying, “Eat of every tree of the garden,"17 but do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in the day that you eat of it you shall certainly die.”"

Genesis 3:1-7,1 And the naḥasha was more crafty than all the lives of the field which יהוה Elohim had made, and he said to the woman, “Is it true that Elohim has said, ‘Do not eat of every tree of the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the naḥash, “We are to eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden,"3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, Elohim has said, ‘Do not eat of it, nor touch it, lest you die.’ ”"4 And the naḥash said to the woman, “You shall certainly not die."5 “For Elohim knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be like Elohim, knowing good and evil.”"6 And the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, and she took of its fruit and ate. And she also gave to her husband with her, and he ate."7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made loin coverings for themselves."

Genesis 3:22-24,22 And יהוה Elohim said, “See, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...”"23 so יהוה Elohim sent him out of the garden of Ěḏen to till the ground from which he was taken,"24 and He drove the man out. And He placed keruḇim at the east of the garden of Ěḏen, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life."

The was never a prohibition of the treee of life, the ywere actually told to eat from it... Then they were kicked out and it was guarded...

Im saying we don;t know explicitly if they did, but I think it is implied or possible. But not really I big issue IMO... Interesting still.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,886
8,502
113
#19
They ate from the tree of life in the garden, they were not immortal.
if they didn't have death until they ate of the tree of knowledge then what did they have?

purgatory?
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
538
113
#20
What would have been had they eaten of the tree of life prior to eating from the tree of knowledge?