Does God hide truth from the world?

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#21
Genesis 2:15-17,15 And יהוה Elohim took the man and put him in the garden of Ěḏen to work it and to guard it."16 And יהוה Elohim commanded the man, saying, “Eat of every tree of the garden,"17 but do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in the day that you eat of it you shall certainly die.”"
it's interesting the version you are posting from has this as though it's a command, but the ones i am familiar with say 'you may eat..' -- is the Hebrew imperative? is He commanding Adam to specifically eat of every tree, or telling him he may of any he chooses ((except of course the one that is forbidden))?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#22
The serpent said to Eve what many Christians say to this very day: "You will not surely die."
i.e. "God has lied"

but God has said this:

I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in Me will live, even though they die;
and whoever lives by believing in Me will never die. Do you believe this?
(John 11:25-26)

no lie - though some people, even calling themselves Christians, say Jesus is lying when He says these things.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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#23
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned — to be sure, sin was in the world before the Law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
(Romans 5:12-13)
sin was in the world before the Woman was even created?
are you saying that "sin entered the world through one man" is in reference to Adam having been created and put in the garden, not in reference to him taking from the tree?
by giving a command to Adam, did God introduce sin into the world?
God gave mankind a choice.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#24
God gave mankind a choice.
and you are saying that the introduction of choice = sin in the world, and Adam and the Woman don't have life?
because there's a choice?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#25
this could also mean that eating from the tree of life after having eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil would have had a significant and undesired outcome.
That is what I said ;)

if God meant to prevent them from eating from the tree of life altogether,
There is absolutely no reason to assume this, and in fact, the text prohibits such an assumpion. As I already stated, A&E were given permission to eat of the Tree of Life. However, it should not be assumed they did, whereas many make the assumption they did, and state it as if it were a fact, when there are zero verses to support any such assertion.

why didn't He command Adam not to? He commanded not to eat of one of the trees in the midst of the garden, but not the other. it makes sense then, that it is only in conjunction with eating of the other tree that they must not eat of the tree of life.
it could be that if they ate of the the tree of life in the state of death that they were in after having eaten the forbidden fruit, they would be in an eternal state of death -- living forever, dead. in this case there is no reason to think that they did not eat of the tree of life beforehand, even regularly -- because death didn't enter the world until sin ((Romans 5:12-13)). if there was no death, then they had life.

if they did not have life before they sinned, then they had death: and God created them in death, and eating from the tree and thus receiving death didn't really change anything; they were going to die anyway. which seems to be studydude's position .. ? which puts him in agreement with the Serpent, in a way, who was deceiving the Woman, telling her there wouldn't be any real change of position.
Everybody has life before they die, whether they eat of the Tree of Life or not, for in Him we live and move and have our being :)

Please excuse the platform editing errors. I did try to fix them, to no avail :D
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#26
Concerning Matthew 13, where Christ says that He has spoken in parables in order that there will be those that will see, "and yet they will not see. They will hear, but will never understand." In other words God has hidden truth from certain individuals.

The question really is why would God do this? This doesn't seem fair, if they were really seeking for Christ? Can we seek after him or does he seek after us? What's the purpose of parables ?

I don't think that God is not hiding information from those who are really seeking Christ in respect to those who have humbled themselves before God and realize their spiritual bankruptcy, and cry out to God for mercy, and in faith trust that what God has declared is true and trustworthy. I believe God the Holy Spirit will open their eyes, give them ears to hear what the Spirit is saying and they will by faith see the truth.

It would seem from my experiences that most of the people of the world think they are wiser than God in their own eyes. They really believe that they can know truth, that they can decide what is true or what is not true. They are not ready to humble themselves. They are ready to pick and choose from the Bible what they want or what they don't want. In other words, they want to design a religion that meets their specifications rather than those of God.
Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.


God hid the truth of the death, burial and resurrection from Jesus' disciples for it was not time for them to know. God's timing of revealing truth is always perfect.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#27
Im saying we don't know explicitly if they did, but I think it is implied or possible. But not really I big issue IMO... Interesting still.
Yes, it is interesting, though I am fairly convinced that A&E did not eat of the Tree of Life (y) Not that you have said this, but some try to say that A&E would have had to eaten of the Tree of Life just be alive and maintain that life, but that makes no sense to me :unsure: God gave them life, and life is a gift given to all who have or ever will walk or crawl or otherwise perambulate upon this earth... and we know that not all who live have partaken of the Bread of Life, the One True Vine. They have not eaten of the Source, yet they live, and will eventually die, and then at the end of this age they shall pass into the second and final death as a result of their failure to submit to the will of God.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#28
it's interesting the version you are posting from has this as though it's a command, but the ones i am familiar with say 'you may eat..' -- is the Hebrew imperative? is He commanding Adam to specifically eat of every tree, or telling him he may of any he chooses ((except of course the one that is forbidden))?
I have seen it handled differnt ways by different translators and scholars.. sometimes as "may" "eat freely" or "freely eat" but the odd thing is the Hebrew does not say any of that...??...

So if you look at the hebrew:

398 [e] אָכֹ֥ל
’ā-ḵōl freely V-Qal-InfAbs
398 [e] תֹּאכֵֽל׃
tō-ḵêl. you may eat V-Qal-Imperf-2ms

even thought it is "translated different" both are root word #H398, but different variations of...

actuall "akol" and "tokel"

I have an idea, that one is a "shall or shall not" but I have not studied it deeply enough to say for certian, Im going to have to look into this... Not vital, but I want to know everything about Him and His word...
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#29
That is what I said ;)

There is absolutely no reason to assume this, and in fact, the text prohibits such an assumpion. As I already stated, A&E were given permission to eat of the Tree of Life. However, it should not be assumed they did, whereas many make the assumption they did, and state it as if it were a fact, when there are zero verses to support any such assertion.

Everybody has life before they die, whether they eat of the Tree of Life or not, for in Him we live and move and have our being :)

Please excuse the platform editing errors. I did try to fix them, to no avail :D
i'm just saying, keeping them from the tree of life after they had sinned isn't to me a strong implication that they never ate from it: it's strong implication that eating from the tree of life after eating from the other tree -- eating from the tree of life while in a state of 'dying, you shall die' -- is not good.

the whole situation is that the death in them from eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil has to be remedied before they eat from the tree of life: and so we are sent the Messiah ((thank God!!!)) :)
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#30
Yes, it is interesting, though I am fairly convinced that A&E did not eat of the Tree of Life (y)Not that you have said this, but some try to say that A&E would have had to eaten of the Tree of Life just be alive and maintain that life, but that makes no sense to me :unsure: God gave them life, and life is a gift given to all who have or ever will walk or crawl or otherwise perambulate upon this earth... and we know that not all who live have partaken of the Bread of Life, the One True Vine. They have not eaten of the Source, yet they live, and will eventually die, and then at the end of this age they shall pass into the second and final death as a result of their failure to submit to the will of God.
You know.. some years ago I had this exact convo with a friend, and honestly this is prestty much how I see it, the one thing I want to say, that if this allegory is correct I can;t help but think, and you basically said the same thing... also that the tree of life was only availble for a time, just like being in Yahshua... You know if someone dies before being His their time is over. A test or trial...

Isaiah 55:6-7,6 Seek יהוה while He is to be found, call on Him while He is near."7 Let the wrong forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts. Let him return to יהוה, who has compassion on him, and to our Elohim, for He pardons much."
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#31
God hides truth from the world to a certain extent, for how would anybody come to the truth if He hides truth from the world when we are all part of the world at one time, and some stay in the world.

Creation testifies that there is a God and of His attributes, which one of them is love, for He provided food, and the means to make clothing and shelter, so the world is without excuse if they do not follow the 2 greatest laws, love God, and love people, which is how the people that never heard the word of God will be judged after the millennial reign of Christ.

Jesus came to the Jews and spoke the truth to them, and those that believed in Jesus the Spirit would reveal the truth to them.

We have the word of God that anybody from the world can read if they want, which the truth is there, and prophesy testifying that He is the true God, for He told us the end from the beginning, and some things of the Bible can be understood without the Spirit, for it does not take the Spirit to understand thou shalt not steal, and David was king in Israel.

Saints doing miracles, and their lives changed for the better is also a testimony.

The truth is there and we were all part of the world at one time, but nobody can come all the way to the truth unless God intervenes in their lives, for if not the flesh will prohibit them from the truth, or coming all the way to the truth.

Many are called, but few are chosen, so God calls people and works with them if their heart condition is right, and not many noble, not many mighty according to the flesh, not many wise in the world, are called.

No person says Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

Peter confessed Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God, which flesh and blood did not reveal that to Him but the Father.

Concerning the end time none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

If you are part of those that know and claim these things then God for sure is working in your life, and it cannot be another way, which I will point out that many who do not believe OSAS if you do not abstain from sins doing the works of God by the Spirit that confess these things, and understand the end time, so God has to be working in their life, so if OSAS is true then they would be saved even if they do not believe OSAS for it would have no bearing on them being lost, for God would only work in the lives of those He chose.

The truth is there, but many do not see it because the flesh rules them too much, which God said the wisdom of this world is foolishness to Him.
 

jameen

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2018
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Manila
#32
God does not hide the Truth from anyone. Jesus said this:

Matthew 7:7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
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#33
God does not hide the Truth from anyone. Jesus said this:

Matthew 7:7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
I think that scripture reiterates that Go does obscure truth by his will.
Those are Christ's instructions to have revealed what is not visible.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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#34
and you are saying that the introduction of choice = sin in the world, and Adam and the Woman don't have life?
because there's a choice?
I stand corrected.

"You are mistaken. There was Law, therefore there was sin."

I meant to say;

"You are mistaken. There was Law, therefore there was a choice to sin or to obey.

One choice led to continued life, one choice led to death.


Thanks for pointing this out.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#35
God gave mankind a choice.
do you believe 'covenant theology' ?
'you shall not eat of the tree' = 'Adamic covenant' = 'the covenant of works' = 'Adam gets eternal life if and only if he passes the test' ?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#36
The Genesis 2 accounts are mostly symbolic and the more i read these argument i become more convinced that:

1. Eden = the heart of men
2. The tree of life= Truth that God planted in the hearts of men (in this case Adam & Eve). It is also bread of life/law/every word that comes out of God.
3. The tree of knowledge & wisdom is a condition that results when man forgets Truth/law/word of God. This condition is also called sin or death.

After man forgot truth (sinned), God actually prevented man from regaining it until Jesus's death when the veil was torn indicating that we (men) can now access the law in the holy of holies. And from that moment, in the new covenant, the Lord said He will write the law in men's heart again.

In the OT we see this symbolism with the ark of the covenant even from its design. Inside it was the two tablets (law) and covering it were two Cherubim (protecting it). It shows the the nation of Israel and indeed mankind was being prevented from accessing the truth until such a time that God determined.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#37
in no other way can any man stand :)

For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners,
so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
(Romans 5:19)
Verily I say to you, if ye may not be turned and become as the children,
ye may not enter into the reign of the heavens
(Matthew 18:3)

 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#38
Concerning Matthew 13, where Christ says that He has spoken in parables in order that there will be those that will see, "and yet they will not see. They will hear, but will never understand." In other words God has hidden truth from certain individuals.

The question really is why would God do this? This doesn't seem fair, if they were really seeking for Christ? Can we seek after him or does he seek after us? What's the purpose of parables ?

I don't think that God is not hiding information from those who are really seeking Christ in respect to those who have humbled themselves before God and realize their spiritual bankruptcy, and cry out to God for mercy, and in faith trust that what God has declared is true and trustworthy. I believe God the Holy Spirit will open their eyes, give them ears to hear what the Spirit is saying and they will by faith see the truth.

It would seem from my experiences that most of the people of the world think they are wiser than God in their own eyes. They really believe that they can know truth, that they can decide what is true or what is not true. They are not ready to humble themselves. They are ready to pick and choose from the Bible what they want or what they don't want. In other words, they want to design a religion that meets their specifications rather than those of God.
The reason God hides knowledge from people is because they are rejecting the love of His truth.. God knows when a person is not going to accept the way of salvation His has mades to save people.. Therefore He hides from them the deeper knowledge of salvation and sends then strong delusions so that they will be decieved and will be condemned.. But those who are accepting and will meekly accept the Way of salvation with contrition He will lead them into the wisdom they need to know to be saved.. The following scripture is important to take in..

I quote the chapter to give context to the message::

2 Thessolonians 2 KJV
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?


6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

So if people are rejecting the love of the truth,, which is the way of salvation by the loving Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ then those people will not only be blocked from deeper truths and wisdom of scripture they will be send strong delusions so that they will believe in deceptions and they will have no hope but will be condemned..
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#39
why did the tabernacle and the temple have a veil?

why was Sinai obscured with smoke?

why was the glory inside a pillar of cloud?

why was God hidden in the form of a man?

why do we see now 'as through a glass, darkly' ?

why didn't the apostles on the road to Emmaus realize who they were speaking and walking with?

why didn't the centurions at the cross know who He is until He died?

why did He cover Moses in the cleft of the rock?

are these the same questions as 'why does He teach in parables' ?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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#40
do you believe 'covenant theology' ?
'you shall not eat of the tree' = 'Adamic covenant' = 'the covenant of works' = 'Adam gets eternal life if and only if he passes the test' ?
I know the serpent convinced Eve that she was already saved, all ready immortal, when God told her she was not.

And I know the serpent convinced Eve that God's instructions were a burden, and following them would keep her blind and in prison. And that only by rejecting God's instruction could she be righteous.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Reject His Instructions) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

I know this scripture was written for my admonition so I would learn not to listen to "Other voices" out there who Preach the same thing.

Not sure about the voice that coined "covenant of works". I know it wasn't the God of the Bible.