does grace requires conditions?

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J

jackdove

Guest
#1
#1
GRACE REQUIRES CONDITIONS​
Mostprofessing “ Christians” and many teachings of what is called “traditionalChristianity” say there are no conditions, nothing that we must do to receiveGods glorious grace. They deny that God requires obedience to His law! They twist the truth around by saying thatwould be earning ones salvation! They do demand it of God, while they stillrebel against His law and refuse to keep it!
Think wherethat would lead! Understand this! Eternal life is , indeed, Gods free gift. Youcan earn it! But it is not your right! You cannot demand it of God as yourright, while you defy God, rebel against His government, refuse to let Him ruleyour life His way!
ThereforeGod has imposed CONDITIONS! Those conditions do not earn you a thing. But Godgives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him(Acts 5:32) He does not pay it- butthe passage speaks of the Holy Spirit which “God hath given to them that obeyHim.” It is still a free GIFT.
A rich manmight have seven men standing before him, and say, “ I will give, as my freegift of Rs 10000 to any or all of you who will step forward to receive it.”Their stepping forward does not EARN it. It is merely the condition required toreceive the free GIFT.
The word“GRACE” means unmerited, undeserved pardon! God pardons those who REPENT! And “repent” means to turn from rebellion,hostility, disobedience. “Repent” ,means to turn to obedience to Gods law. Thefact that God chooses not to give this wonderful gift- this gift ofimmortality, which carries with it divine power- to those who would misuse itfor harm and evil; the fact that He chooses to give it only to those who willrightly use it- does not mean it comes by works instead of grace. If there wereno conditions, then everyone could demand it, and it would be received as aright by birth, instead of by grace.
The veryfact of grace makes necessary Gods required qualifications. But it still is anundeserved GIFT! Obedience does not earn anything-that is only what we owe God.A birthright requires no qualification. It is a right by birth.

 
my_adonai_

my_adonai_

Senior Member
#2
Mar 19, 2012
818
22
0
32
#2
we never did anything for GOD to pour his grace on us, nothing at all. it is abound it is constant, whether we wanted or not. HE wanted it and in HIS time, and want it will end. HE IS GOD and HE does not need our counsel, neither can we counsel HIM.
 
my_adonai_

my_adonai_

Senior Member
#3
Mar 19, 2012
818
22
0
32
#3
thats why it is said that GRACE has no conditions. HE POURED IT OUT WILLINGLY out of LOVE. He never looked at the magnitude of sin, neither did He measure out THE WEIGHT of those who would believe HIM or not. nope. HE JUST LOVED.
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#4
#4
jackdove said:
GRACE REQUIRES CONDITIONS​
Mostprofessing “ Christians” and many teachings of what is called “traditionalChristianity” say there are no conditions, nothing that we must do to receiveGods glorious grace. They deny that God requires obedience to His law! They twist the truth around by saying thatwould be earning ones salvation! They do demand it of God, while they stillrebel against His law and refuse to keep it!
Think wherethat would lead! Understand this! Eternal life is , indeed, Gods free gift. Youcan earn it! But it is not your right! You cannot demand it of God as yourright, while you defy God, rebel against His government, refuse to let Him ruleyour life His way!
ThereforeGod has imposed CONDITIONS! Those conditions do not earn you a thing. But Godgives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him(Acts 5:32) He does not pay it- butthe passage speaks of the Holy Spirit which “God hath given to them that obeyHim.” It is still a free GIFT.
A rich manmight have seven men standing before him, and say, “ I will give, as my freegift of Rs 10000 to any or all of you who will step forward to receive it.”Their stepping forward does not EARN it. It is merely the condition required toreceive the free GIFT.
The word“GRACE” means unmerited, undeserved pardon! God pardons those who REPENT! And “repent” means to turn from rebellion,hostility, disobedience. “Repent” ,means to turn to obedience to Gods law. Thefact that God chooses not to give this wonderful gift- this gift ofimmortality, which carries with it divine power- to those who would misuse itfor harm and evil; the fact that He chooses to give it only to those who willrightly use it- does not mean it comes by works instead of grace. If there wereno conditions, then everyone could demand it, and it would be received as aright by birth, instead of by grace.
The veryfact of grace makes necessary Gods required qualifications. But it still is anundeserved GIFT! Obedience does not earn anything-that is only what we owe God.A birthright requires no qualification. It is a right by birth.
Click to expand...
Yes, from the position / perspective of the believer, grace most certainly requires a condition and that condition is nothing more or less than faith. If one has an accurate understanding of scripture then that person should draw to the conclusion that it is authentic faith which leads us to us repentance, obedience and to do good works.

Without faith as the prerequisite to grace then, according to John 3 and Romans 5, universal salvation is in effect and no man shall perish for their sins.
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#5
#5
my_adonai_ said:
thats why it is said that GRACE has no conditions. HE POURED IT OUT WILLINGLY out of LOVE. He never looked at the magnitude of sin, neither did He measure out THE WEIGHT of those who would believe HIM or not. nope. HE JUST LOVED.
Click to expand...
The problem here is that you are confusing God's position with man's position. While God does not require a condition of himself to grant grace, He does however require one condition in order to receive it, that condition being authentic faith.
 
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mark54

Banned
#6
Jan 11, 2013
2,256
17
0
#6
"The grace that does not make a man better than others is a worthless counterfeit. Christ saves His people, not IN their sins, but FROM their sins. Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord." ~ Charles Spurgeon

And yet, correct me if I am wrong. Spurgeon believed Paul was speaking of his Christian life in Rom 7:14-25) He was speaking in the present.

As I say if I have that wrong, please let me know.
 
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S

Skinski7

Banned
#7
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#7
jackdove said:
GRACE REQUIRES CONDITIONS​
Mostprofessing “ Christians” and many teachings of what is called “traditionalChristianity” say there are no conditions, nothing that we must do to receiveGods glorious grace. They deny that God requires obedience to His law! They twist the truth around by saying thatwould be earning ones salvation! They do demand it of God, while they stillrebel against His law and refuse to keep it!
Think wherethat would lead! Understand this! Eternal life is , indeed, Gods free gift. Youcan earn it! But it is not your right! You cannot demand it of God as yourright, while you defy God, rebel against His government, refuse to let Him ruleyour life His way!
ThereforeGod has imposed CONDITIONS! Those conditions do not earn you a thing. But Godgives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him(Acts 5:32) He does not pay it- butthe passage speaks of the Holy Spirit which “God hath given to them that obeyHim.” It is still a free GIFT.
A rich manmight have seven men standing before him, and say, “ I will give, as my freegift of Rs 10000 to any or all of you who will step forward to receive it.”Their stepping forward does not EARN it. It is merely the condition required toreceive the free GIFT.
The word“GRACE” means unmerited, undeserved pardon! God pardons those who REPENT! And “repent” means to turn from rebellion,hostility, disobedience. “Repent” ,means to turn to obedience to Gods law. Thefact that God chooses not to give this wonderful gift- this gift ofimmortality, which carries with it divine power- to those who would misuse itfor harm and evil; the fact that He chooses to give it only to those who willrightly use it- does not mean it comes by works instead of grace. If there wereno conditions, then everyone could demand it, and it would be received as aright by birth, instead of by grace.
The veryfact of grace makes necessary Gods required qualifications. But it still is anundeserved GIFT! Obedience does not earn anything-that is only what we owe God.A birthright requires no qualification. It is a right by birth.
Click to expand...
Grace is unconditional in the sense that God gives it freely. Yet one can receive it in vain or to no working effect if it is not put to use via an active obedient faith.

The Bible also says that God gives grace to the humble.

Therefore the grace of God has appeared to all men teaching them how they ought to go but God further empowers those who diligently seek His face and who have been broken in repentance that they may live in victory over the world, sin, and the devil.

Good post by the way. I enjoyed reading it.
 
S

Skinski7

Banned
#8
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#8
mark54 said:
"The grace that does not make a man better than others is a worthless counterfeit. Christ saves His people, not IN their sins, but FROM their sins. Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord." ~ Charles Spurgeon

And yet, correct me if I am wrong. Spurgeon believed Paul was speaking of his Christian life in Rom 7:14-25) He was speaking in the present.

As I say if I have that wrong, please let me know.
Click to expand...
Like most reformers Spurgeon would speak out of both sides of his mouth. That is why they can sound so convincing and biblical one moment and then, bang, they completely contradict themselves.
 
M

mark54

Banned
#9
Jan 11, 2013
2,256
17
0
#9
Skinski7 said:
Like most reformers Spurgeon would speak out of both sides of his mouth. That is why they can sound so convincing and biblical one moment and then, bang, they completely contradict themselves.
Click to expand...
I am pretty sure Spurgeon did believe Paul was speaking in the present in Rom7:14-25, but do not really want to have to trawl through his sermons to make 100% sure. Can you confirm YOU KNOW FOR A FACT he did believe Paul was speaking in the present, of his Christian life in those verses
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#10
#10
Crossfire said:
The problem here is that you are confusing God's position with man's position. While God does not require a condition of himself to grant grace, He does however require one condition in order to receive it, that condition being authentic faith.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, many today misunderstand the nature of faith and think of it as something man does which is a false notion. The origin of faith begins with God, it is a gift from God that manifests when we hear or read the Word of God.

Some would say that without grace, man could not receive such faith which is somewhat accurate however, completely out of context. Both grace and faith are attributes of God's love. God's love toward man results in grace while, God's love in man results in faith. One is God giving something, while the other is man receiving something. Either way, without God's love neither are possible.
 
M

mark54

Banned
#11
Jan 11, 2013
2,256
17
0
#11
I've just checked it. Spurgeon did believe Paul was speaking of his Christian life/the present in Rom ch7

So i do not understand how that equates with the following:

The grace that does not make a man better than others is a worthless counterfeit. Christ saves His people, not IN their sins, but FROM their sins. Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord." ~ Charles Spurgeon
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#12
#12
Crossfire said:
Unfortunately, many today misunderstand the nature of faith and think of it as something man does which is a false notion. The origin of faith begins with God, it is a gift from God that manifests when we hear or read the Word of God.

Some would say that without grace, man could not receive such faith which is somewhat accurate however, completely out of context. Both grace and faith are attributes of God's love. God's love toward man results in grace while, God's love in man results in faith. One is God giving something, while the other is man receiving something. Either way, without God's love neither are possible.
Click to expand...
The easiest way to understand the "love = grace + faith" equation is think of the process is this:

God's love is like electricity and grace is the current / wire in which love travels.

Man is like a light bulb. When electricity (love) interacts with the bulb (man), it results in light being produced on the inside of the bulb (faith) which then explodes outward for all the world to see (obedience and good works).
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#13
#13
Skinski7 said:
.

The Bible also says that God gives grace to the humble.

.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

That scripture alone implies that humility is a prerequisite. The question that needs to be ask is from what source does humility originate?

Authentic faith.
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#14
#14
jackdove said:
GRACE REQUIRES CONDITIONS​
Mostprofessing “ Christians” and many teachings of what is called “traditionalChristianity” say there are no conditions, nothing that we must do to receiveGods glorious grace. They deny that God requires obedience to His law! They twist the truth around by saying thatwould be earning ones salvation! They do demand it of God, while they stillrebel against His law and refuse to keep it!
Think wherethat would lead! Understand this! Eternal life is , indeed, Gods free gift. You can earn it! (really?) But it is not your right! You cannot demand it of God as yourright, while you defy God, rebel against His government, refuse to let Him ruleyour life His way!
ThereforeGod has imposed CONDITIONS! Those conditions do not earn you a thing. But Godgives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him(Acts 5:32) He does not pay it- butthe passage speaks of the Holy Spirit which “God hath given to them that obeyHim.” It is still a free GIFT.
A rich manmight have seven men standing before him, and say, “ I will give, as my freegift of Rs 10000 to any or all of you who will step forward to receive it.”Their stepping forward does not EARN it. It is merely the condition required toreceive the free GIFT.
The word“GRACE” means unmerited, undeserved pardon! God pardons those who REPENT! And “repent” means to turn from rebellion,hostility, disobedience. “Repent” ,means to turn to obedience to Gods law. Thefact that God chooses not to give this wonderful gift- this gift ofimmortality, which carries with it divine power- to those who would misuse itfor harm and evil; the fact that He chooses to give it only to those who willrightly use it- does not mean it comes by works instead of grace. If there wereno conditions, then everyone could demand it, and it would be received as aright by birth, instead of by grace.
The veryfact of grace makes necessary Gods required qualifications. But it still is anundeserved GIFT! Obedience does not earn anything-that is only what we owe God.A birthright requires no qualification. It is a right by birth.
Click to expand...
I don't think you understand the concept of a free gift. :rolleyes:

15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.

17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. (Romans 5)

Is it safe for me to assume you attend some type of Messianic congregation?


Hmm...another mess of confusion between the one coming to Christ and the one IN Christ.
 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#15
Feb 11, 2013
1,138
180
63
#15
OP how much repenting is enough to earn salvation's grace in your eyes? What if there is one lingering sin we couldn't kick before we die--will God cast you to hell because of that one sin you couldn't conquer, or was Jesus' blood inefficient for that one "thorny" sin? Please answer.
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#16
#16
Radius said:
OP how much repenting is enough to earn salvation's grace in your eyes? What if there is one lingering sin we couldn't kick before we die--will God cast you to hell because of that one sin you couldn't conquer, or was Jesus' blood inefficient for that one "thorny" sin? Please answer.
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Repentance is merely the result / an evidence of authentic faith. The mistake that you and the original post are making is that you both have overlooked the real reason why God has provided grace in the first place. Most assume that grace is given for the sole purpose of the forgiveness of sin which is not accurate. While the forgiveness of sin does indeed happen, it's but a means to an end not an actual end to the means. The end to the means is right fellowship with God (abiding in Christ / walking in the Spirit) which scripture promises results in the overcoming of sin in the life of the believer on this side of eternity. (See Galatians 5, 2 Peter 1, Romans 8)


 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#17
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#17
Crossfire said:
The easiest way to understand the "love = grace + faith" equation is think of the process is this:

God's love is like electricity and grace is the current / wire in which love travels.

Man is like a light bulb. When electricity (love) interacts with the bulb (man), it results in light being produced on the inside of the bulb (faith) which then explodes outward for all the world to see (obedience and good works).
Click to expand...
2 Peter 1:1-4
[SUP]1[/SUP]Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: [SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


His Divine Power has given us ALL things that pertain to Life and Godliness. How? Through our obedience and good works? No... That is the fruit of what we are given. We are given all things that pertain to Life and Godliness by the Knowledge of Him Who has called us to glory and virtue...

To know Him. That is a big theme throughout the bible. How do we know Him? How can we be given these exceeding great and precious promises?

Will our obedience and good works cause us to know Him? No. He specifically tells people who thought they were obedient and did good works that He didn't know them.

So if our good works don't cause us to know Him, what does?


Colossians 2:2-3
[SUP]2[/SUP][SUP] [/SUP]That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;[SUP]3 [/SUP]In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding... In whom are hid ALL the treasures of wisdom and knowledge...


Ephesians 1:15-23
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.



 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#18
#18
Grandpa said:

His Divine Power has given us ALL things that pertain to Life and Godliness. How? Through our obedience and good works? No... That is the fruit of what we are given. We are given all things that pertain to Life and Godliness by the Knowledge of Him Who has called us to glory and virtue...

To know Him. That is a big theme throughout the bible. How do we know Him? How can we be given these exceeding great and precious promises?

Will our obedience and good works cause us to know Him? No. He specifically tells people who thought they were obedient and did good works that He didn't know them.

So if our good works don't cause us to know Him, what does?
Click to expand...
My question to everyone who might be reading this thread is "what does it mean to actually know God?" Is the scripture referring to "knowledge of God" that can be obtained from any worldly source which speaks of God source or, is the scripture referring to knowledge that can only be found IN GOD through an daily, intimate relationship with with our Lord and Savior through the indwelling Spirit?

If you chose the later of the two, you would be correct and hopefully are living such a lifestyle . However, if you have chosen the first, then you may want to rethink your strategy because your "faith" is no better than that of the pharisees in Jesus' day.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#19
#19
Not true. The pharisees didnt even believe the bible. The problem
was not the scriptures which Jesus told us to live by. It was the leaven and their traditions, and honoring one another.
growing in grace and knowledge IS what gives us a relationship.

Jesus told them if they knew the scriptures they would have been saved.
He told them If they believed what moses said they would have believed in Him.

This is the new trend of having "relationship" merely subjectivism be more important that the word of God.
Which in fact "was" the pharisees problem
 
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B

BarlyGurl

Guest
#20
#20
>>>>This is the new trend of having "relationship" merely subjectivism be more important that the word of God.<<<<

I have visited church and discovered this very thing.... EEEEEEK!!!! RUN.... nothing new under the sun...sigh. As tho the bible doesn't instruct on how to have a right relationship with Jesus, the father and EACH OTHER.... rolly eyes.
 
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