does grace requires conditions?

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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#21
My question to everyone who might be reading this thread is "what does it mean to actually know God?" Is the scripture referring to "knowledge of God" that can be obtained from any worldly source which speaks of God source or, is the scripture referring to knowledge that can only be found IN GOD through an daily, intimate relationship with with our Lord and Savior through the indwelling Spirit?

If you chose the later of the two, you would be correct and hopefully are living such a lifestyle . However, if you have chosen the first, then you may want to rethink your strategy because your "faith" is no better than that of the pharisees in Jesus' day.
Does the Lord place conditions on knowing Him?

Or can anyone, anywhere cry out to Him and begin their walk with the Saviour?

Must a person fill themselves with humility and faith before they come to Him?

It has been my experience that I started with just a little faith and the Lord Jesus has caused it to grow. It has also been my experience that I was not able to humble my own self. The Lord Jesus did that. It is His work in me.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#22
threads of start without clear definitions.

Grace for instance.

People call it underserved divine favor. Ok..it is that. But is that it?

Grace=charis which is Gods divine influence...this is more than just undeserved favor.

When Paul was told "my grace is sufficient" He wasnt telling Paul to quit whining because
he would be getting a thumbs up from God. But actual powerful influence and help.

That changed Pauls attitude immediately and he started to glory in all his infirmities, weaknesses
and problems. So he could strong in the Lord and the power of His might "in" his weaknesses.

Grace i think is more than some think i believe.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,165
140
63
#23
threads of start without clear definitions.

Grace for instance.

People call it underserved divine favor. Ok..it is that. But is that it?

Grace=charis which is Gods divine influence...this is more than just undeserved favor.

When Paul was told "my grace is sufficient" He wasnt telling Paul to quit whining because
he would be getting a thumbs up from God. But actual powerful influence and help.

That changed Pauls attitude immediately and he started to glory in all his infirmities, weaknesses
and problems. So he could strong in the Lord and the power of His might "in" his weaknesses.

Grace i think is more than some think i believe.
I think you hit it clearly abiding, by me not getting proud over stopping sin, because I quit trying to stop it, because his grace is sufficient for me rather glory in my iniquities where I need Christ, Father and Holy Ghost at all times, thus Father stops it because of beiing focused on Father at all times. I do not know if I said that right but I got it in my weakness his strength is made perfect, therefore I will glory in my need for belief in him, and hide in this belief and trust, being only a vessel for him to use as Father sees fit
 
C

crosspreacher

Guest
#24
The only condition that I know for grace is that either we accept it or refuse it. We receive the grace of God if we are predestined to eternal life.
 
C

Chr

Guest
#25
Grace has no conditions. God saved us by His grace He gave us faith and had mercy on us.
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#26
Does the Lord place conditions on knowing Him?

Or can anyone, anywhere cry out to Him and begin their walk with the Saviour?

Must a person fill themselves with humility and faith before they come to Him?

It has been my experience that I started with just a little faith and the Lord Jesus has caused it to grow. It has also been my experience that I was not able to humble my own self. The Lord Jesus did that. It is His work in me.
No one can fill themselves with faith or humility. Faith is purely a gift from God and can not be produced or reproduced by man. Humility is a result / evidence of faith, why would one humble themselves if they did not first believe? Both humility and repentance are the fruit of faith.
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#27
Grace has no conditions. God saved us by His grace He gave us faith and had mercy on us.
That's not how scripture explain things:


John 3:16

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world (love) that He gave His only begotten Son (mercy), that whoever believes in Him (faith) should not perish but have everlasting life (grace).

Ephesians 2:8

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,



While God's love requires no conditions, his grace most certainly does. It must first be embraced by faith. If you remove faith from the equation, you end up with licentiousness and / or worse; universal salvation for all mankind.
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#28
No one can fill themselves with faith or humility. Faith is purely a gift from God and can not be produced or reproduced by man. Humility is a result / evidence of faith, why would one humble themselves if they did not first believe? Both humility and repentance are the fruit of faith.
I agree.

And would add that faith increases as your wisdom and knowledge of Him increases.

The Author and Finisher of our Faith, being the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
C

Chr

Guest
#29
God saves us by his grace through faith.This is the gift of God this is not of ourselves.
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#30
God saves us by his grace through faith.This is the gift of God this is not of ourselves.

Yes, although just because grace is listed first does not mean it comes first. "We are saved by grace through faith" which contextually means that one can not access grace without faith.

It really does not matter which you perceive to be first however, the scripture does clearly state that you can't have one without the other thus implying that, while the two are separate, they are inseparable.

Although it should be noted that no where in the scripture does it ever state that "we are saved by grace and grace alone".
 
Last edited:
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#31
GRACE REQUIRES CONDITIONS
Mostprofessing “ Christians” and many teachings of what is called “traditionalChristianity” say there are no conditions, nothing that we must do to receiveGods glorious grace. They deny that God requires obedience to His law!


For salvation? Then how can God gives the promise of the Spirit to those that believe if they are still required obedience to His law? That is not grace.

Romans 11:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 4:What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, [SUP]7 [/SUP]Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

If the promise of the Spirit can only be given when one has kept to the obedience of the law, then no one has the seal of adoption yet.

Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

The problem here is recognizing the simplicity of the gospel that it is by believing in Him that we are saved, BUT what we build on that foundation that shall be judged for which those that are His disciples should be teaching other believers to be His disciples by continuing in His words so that they may bear fruit, that they do not lse their full reward, and that they may continue in the love of the Father and the Son in fellowshipping with them.

They twist the truth around by saying thatwould be earning ones salvation! They do demand it of God, while they stillrebel against His law and refuse to keep it!
Again: what we build on that foundation will be judged: so everyone that believes in Jesus Christ, even in His name, are saved, but not every believer will continue in His words to be His disciple and thus there will be severe consequences for that... not just loss of some rewards, but to be that vessel unto honour in His House to attend the Marriage Supper at the pre tribulational rapture event.

Think wherethat would lead! Understand this! Eternal life is , indeed, Gods free gift. Youcan earn it! But it is not your right! You cannot demand it of God as yourright, while you defy God, rebel against His government, refuse to let Him ruleyour life His way!
ThereforeGod has imposed CONDITIONS! Those conditions do not earn you a thing. But Godgives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him(Acts 5:32) He does not pay it- butthe passage speaks of the Holy Spirit which “God hath given to them that obeyHim.” It is still a free GIFT.


God gives the Holy Spirit to even those that believe in His name. Believing in Him is how any one is saved and receives the promise of the Spirit.

A rich manmight have seven men standing before him, and say, “ I will give, as my freegift of Rs 10000 to any or all of you who will step forward to receive it.”Their stepping forward does not EARN it. It is merely the condition required toreceive the free GIFT.
The word“GRACE” means unmerited, undeserved pardon! God pardons those who REPENT! And “repent” means to turn from rebellion,hostility, disobedience. “Repent” ,means to turn to obedience to Gods law.


The call of repentance here is to repent from unbelief by believing in Him. From there, believers are saved, having been bought with a price and sealed as His so that now they have power to live the christian life in following Him... even if they are newbies and do not know this truth yet that He is able to help them to follow Him as the Good Shepherd He is.

If you have to epent of all sins and obey the law to be saved, then that salvation and the promise of the Spirit will be long in coming.

Acknowledging that you are saved and because you have been bought with a price and sealed as His, we should consider that we will be accountable for what we do in this body to Jesus Christ which is why we should go before that throne of grace for help in our time of need to follow Him by faith.

Hebrews 4:[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Thefact that God chooses not to give this wonderful gift- this gift ofimmortality, which carries with it divine power- to those who would misuse itfor harm and evil; the fact that He chooses to give it only to those who willrightly use it- does not mean it comes by works instead of grace. If there wereno conditions, then everyone could demand it, and it would be received as aright by birth, instead of by grace.
The veryfact of grace makes necessary Gods required qualifications. But it still is anundeserved GIFT! Obedience does not earn anything-that is only what we owe God.A birthright requires no qualification. It is a right by birth.
The birthright is initiated by believing in Him as Jesus had explained to Nicodemus in the 3rd chapter of John on how this can be that a sinner can be born again.

That birthright to attend the Marriage Supper is the first inheritance for which many are called but few are chosen to attend and like the prodigal son that gave up his inheritance for wild living, there will be weeping and ganhsing of teeth as it was for Esau when he gave up his birthright for a meal.

There is a loss so great that those left behind will be weeping and gnashing their teeth, but God will be wiping the tears from the eyes of those coming out of the great tribulation to get past that loss.

The loyal elder son was beckoned by his father to come in and celebrate the return of the prodigal son, and teh father noted the difference between the two as Jesus points that out in light of eternity and that is that all that the father has was belonging to the loyal elder son, and thus indicative that it was not the same for the prodigal son as he did gave up his inheritance for wild living.

Having that place that Jesus prepared for us in Zion so that we may be where He is now with the Father is the birthright of every believer and so the call is to look to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin and continue to do so until the Bridegroom comes for the ready hopeful bride of Christ to be received by Him as prepared by Him for the Marriage Supper at the pre tribulational rapture event when God will judge His House first.

So.. yes... there are consequences, but there is also a consequence of thinking repentance is by obedience to the law as if one has to keep the law in order to be saved and receive the promise of the Spirit, and that would be a work that denies Him as Saviour as opposing believing in Him that you are saved by faith alone as standing apart from the law.

Romans 3:[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:......[SUP]26 [/SUP]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

So you are right to warn believers not to defraud their brothers into thinking they can live in sin but you are wrong in applying His words to mean that salvation is by repentance is obedience to the law which would be ongoing wherein so one can say that they have kept it to receive that promise of the Spirit.

So it is by believing in Him that we are saved and by believing in Him, disciples are to teach other believers how to be His disciples by continuing in His words so that they may remain free to live as His and not be entangled again in a yoke of religious bondages that deny Him nor living a life of sin where one can reap corruption as well as risk being left behind at the rapture.

John 8: [SUP]31 [/SUP]Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; [SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.....[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

So there is a call to every believer to be ready, and may we look to Him & His promises to have us abiding in Him to go.

Luke 12:[SUP]40 [/SUP]Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. [SUP]41 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
[SUP]43 [/SUP]Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
[SUP]46 [/SUP]The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
 
C

Chr

Guest
#32
Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which He granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, 2 Timothy 1:9
 
S

SpaceCowboy

Guest
#33
No. Grace does not require conditions. That's why its called grace.
 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#34
GRACE REQUIRES CONDITIONS
Mostprofessing “ Christians” and many teachings of what is called “traditionalChristianity” say there are no conditions, nothing that we must do to receiveGods glorious grace. They deny that God requires obedience to His law! They twist the truth around by saying thatwould be earning ones salvation! They do demand it of God, while they stillrebel against His law and refuse to keep it!
Think wherethat would lead! Understand this! Eternal life is , indeed, Gods free gift. Youcan earn it! But it is not your right! You cannot demand it of God as yourright, while you defy God, rebel against His government, refuse to let Him ruleyour life His way!
ThereforeGod has imposed CONDITIONS! Those conditions do not earn you a thing. But Godgives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him(Acts 5:32) He does not pay it- butthe passage speaks of the Holy Spirit which “God hath given to them that obeyHim.” It is still a free GIFT.
A rich manmight have seven men standing before him, and say, “ I will give, as my freegift of Rs 10000 to any or all of you who will step forward to receive it.”Their stepping forward does not EARN it. It is merely the condition required toreceive the free GIFT.
The word“GRACE” means unmerited, undeserved pardon! God pardons those who REPENT! And “repent” means to turn from rebellion,hostility, disobedience. “Repent” ,means to turn to obedience to Gods law. Thefact that God chooses not to give this wonderful gift- this gift ofimmortality, which carries with it divine power- to those who would misuse itfor harm and evil; the fact that He chooses to give it only to those who willrightly use it- does not mean it comes by works instead of grace. If there wereno conditions, then everyone could demand it, and it would be received as aright by birth, instead of by grace.
The veryfact of grace makes necessary Gods required qualifications. But it still is anundeserved GIFT! Obedience does not earn anything-that is only what we owe God.A birthright requires no qualification. It is a right by birth.
FAITH. . . .
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#35
make A report he be out soon
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#36
Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which He granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, 2 Timothy 1:9
That verse says nothing about being saved by "grace alone" but instead says the complete opposite. It states we are saved according "to His own purpose and grace", that purpose could very well have been to plant the seed of faith.
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#37
No. Grace does not require conditions. That's why its called grace.
Which comes first: love, mercy, grace or faith?

Scripture plainly states that God Himself is love thus we know for certain that love comes first with everything else being an attribute of His love toward mankind. Unfortunately, certain denominations teach as if grace came first and everything else, including God's love, originated from grace which is entirely inaccurate and, in some ways, has made an idol out of grace.
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#38
While God’s gift of saving grace was poured out on the cross, we receive it through faith. Romans 5:2, Ephesians 2:8. We also access His throne of grace to seek help in times of need by faith.
 
C

CDavid

Guest
#39
we never did anything for GOD to pour his grace on us, nothing at all. it is abound it is constant, whether we wanted or not. HE wanted it and in HIS time, and want it will end. HE IS GOD and HE does not need our counsel, neither can we counsel HIM.
'
"For by grace ye are saved through faith" - Grace requires faith as the only price.
"Faith without works is dead" - How much grace will dead faith buy?
 
C

CDavid

Guest
#40
thats why it is said that GRACE has no conditions. HE POURED IT OUT WILLINGLY out of LOVE. He never looked at the magnitude of sin, neither did He measure out THE WEIGHT of those who would believe HIM or not. nope. HE JUST LOVED.
No. Gods love is unconditional. His Grace requires faith. It is because of His unconditional love for us, when we were lost, that He made grace available to all, who will have the faith in His Sons saving power.