DOES HUMAN NATURE VANISH AS SOON AS WE ARE BORN AGAIN?

[just-me]

Well, I suppose so. lol. Or something even worse than our fallen human nature. As for human nature, surely there's our fallen human nature as well as the seed planted within us by Christ which we're to feed so it will grow and eventually choke out the fallen one?

I was told that in church when I was a child. I was told we have a fallen nature and a spiritual nature within us. We have to feed the spiritual with prayer and studying the scriptures so that it will grow. We obviously want to starve out that fallen nature within us, though that obviously isn't as easy as it sounds. That thing just doesn't wanna die. lol.

Amen. I have a scripture in mind.

Ephesians 5:18-20 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

It is important to know (being a drunkard as I was in the past) that eventually the booze wears off and you have to drink some more if you want to get plastered again. There is a similarity. To be filled with the Spirit, one must take in Spiritual truth, digest it, and get High.

Ephesians 3:17-19 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, I suppose so. lol. Or something even worse than our fallen human nature. As for human nature, surely there's our fallen human nature as well as the seed planted within us by Christ which we're to feed so it will grow and eventually choke out the fallen one?

I was told that in church when I was a child. I was told we have a fallen nature and a spiritual nature within us. We have to feed the spiritual with prayer and studying the scriptures so that it will grow. We obviously want to starve out that fallen nature within us, though that obviously isn't as easy as it sounds. That thing just doesn't wanna die. lol.

Just remember, the spiritual nature is dead until it is made alive, Until then, no amount of scripture, good deeds, or religious ceremony or tradition will cause your spiritual nature to grow.

It dies because of sin, It can only be made alive in Christ.

 

[just-me]

when we are in disputes about things not related to eternal life, I agree 100 %

however, when we are in disputes about how someone is saved, then I must disagree. allowing someone to continue to believe in a gospel which will lead them, and those who follow them, to hell is not loving them, it is feeding into their soon to be seen doom if they do not repent.

This is not a thread on how to come to Christ, this thread is how to grow in Christ by recognizing our human nature. There is a difference between them, and I'm sure you know that.

Galatians 6:7-10 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Identifying the truth about the Mosaic Law, is not going backwards, or using this truth that will send a person straight to hell. God is Love, and everything that He has preserved for us to this day, is to exemplify that Love toward Him and toward our fellow man. The 2 greatest of the commandments that we agree on are in the Mosaic Law. Please understand and read.

Leviticus 19:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Deuteronomy 6:1-6 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

The New Commandment that Jesus gave His disciples, and us, is when He incorporated Himself in this love.

John 13:34-35 (KJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is not a thread on how to come to Christ, this thread is how to grow in Christ by recognizing our human nature. There is a difference between them, and I'm sure you know that.

yes i do.. but some have creeped in trying to continue to preach their works based gospel.. we should be as paul and Jesus was, and expose it for what it is, not only for their sake, but for the sake of those who may follow them.

Galatians 6:7-10 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Identifying the truth about the Mosaic Law, is not going backwards, or using this truth that will send a person straight to hell. God is Love, and everything that He has preserved for us to this day, is to exemplify that Love toward Him and toward our fellow man. The 2 greatest of the commandments that we agree on are in the Mosaic Law. Please understand and read.

Leviticus 19:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Deuteronomy 6:1-6 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

The New Commandment that Jesus gave His disciples, and us, is when He incorporated Himself in this love.

John 13:34-35 (KJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Here is where we may disagree a little. But not enough to fight over..lol

To me, I do not need to look at the 600 and some laws to know how to do right, or know what is sin, or know if I am on the right path again.

Jesus said ALL the law and prophets are in two commands.

Love the lord your God and your neighbor (meaning not your next door neighbor, but anyone you may come across, who may also be your enemy) as yourself.

All sin of any type are spoken of here. because ALL SIN procedes out of a failure to do one of these two commands.

If I love my neighbor. I will not covert what they have, I will not bear false witness against them, I will not kill them, not commit sexual sin with them (or in the case of my wife, against her) I will not sin against them, Instead, I will puff them up with encouragement, Help them grow. be there when they need me, Sacrifice myself for them. etc etc.

THIS is how we obey the law. This is how we know we are maturing in Christ.

NOT looking at 600 and some commands. For human nature will always deceive us, We will always look at what we are obeying, and fail to see the ones we struggle with.

I have seen this in many churches, and many people. People who KNOW they are saved eternally by the grace of God, and KNOW they should walk in the spirit. But fail to grow because they are too focused on the OT law. and what we should not do, and not focused on the law of Christ, and what we should do.

 

[just-me]

Just remember, the spiritual nature is dead until it is made alive, Until then, no amount of scripture, good deeds, or religious ceremony or tradition will cause your spiritual nature to grow.

It dies because of sin, It can only be made alive in Christ.

The reason that I started this thread, is that for years, I have seen some people, who proclaim the salvation in Christ Jesus, do not want to recognize human nature. By evading, and re-identifying certain parts of scripture, the guilt of this human nature doesn't have to be addressed. Human nature can't be repaired, if it could, then there wouldn't be a new life.

It's like if we have an old car, and it breaks down, we can continually have it repaired so we can continue down the same road. Christ Jesus has given us a new vehicle without us having to pay for it, but then He does the driving instead of us. Our old nature still wants to drive and be in control, so we would prefer having our old vehicle back. Being God’s child, we know better, so we fight that desire that human nature prefers, knowing we have a better gift. We must look into the Word of truth to keep being reminded.

Acts 17:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

They only had the writings of what we know as the Old Testament.

 

[just-me]

yes i do.. but some have creeped in trying to continue to preach their works based gospel.. we should be as paul and Jesus was, and expose it for what it is, not only for their sake, but for the sake of those who may follow them.


Here is where we may disagree a little. But not enough to fight over..lol

To me, I do not need to look at the 600 and some laws to know how to do right, or know what is sin, or know if I am on the right path again.

Jesus said ALL the law and prophets are in two commands.

Love the lord your God and your neighbor (meaning not your next door neighbor, but anyone you may come across, who may also be your enemy) as yourself.

All sin of any type are spoken of here. because ALL SIN procedes out of a failure to do one of these two commands.

If I love my neighbor. I will not covert what they have, I will not bear false witness against them, I will not kill them, not commit sexual sin with them (or in the case of my wife, against her) I will not sin against them, Instead, I will puff them up with encouragement, Help them grow. be there when they need me, Sacrifice myself for them. etc etc.

THIS is how we obey the law. This is how we know we are maturing in Christ.

NOT looking at 600 and some commands. For human nature will always deceive us, We will always look at what we are obeying, and fail to see the ones we struggle with.

I have seen this in many churches, and many people. People who KNOW they are saved eternally by the grace of God, and KNOW they should walk in the spirit. But fail to grow because they are too focused on the OT law. and what we should not do, and not focused on the law of Christ, and what we should do.

Don't accidentally stalemate yourself. Love ya. That's the reason I said that. I believe God wants us to look into the finite details of love, for if we don't, we are vulnerable to define love with mistakes. It's a human nature thing as you said. You cannot struggle with the Word of God in the way you describe if you are led by His Spirit. Granted, there are difficult things to understand in the Bible but everything is focused on Christ Jesus. If one reads the law with that focus, I guarantee you the Spirit will give you understanding.

1 Corinthians 2:12-13 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The reason that I started this thread, is that for years, I have seen some people, who proclaim the salvation in Christ Jesus, do not want to recognize human nature. By evading, and re-identifying certain parts of scripture, the guilt of this human nature doesn't have to be addressed. Human nature can't be repaired, if it could, then there wouldn't be a new life.

It's like if we have an old car, and it breaks down, we can continually have it repaired so we can continue down the same road. Christ Jesus has given us a new vehicle without us having to pay for it, but then He does the driving instead of us. Our old nature still wants to drive and be in control, so we would prefer having our old vehicle back. Being God’s child, we know better, so we fight that desire that human nature prefers, knowing we have a better gift. We must look into the Word of truth to keep being reminded.

Acts 17:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

They only had the writings of what we know as the Old Testament.

Yes, i agree.

But here in where I see the problem lieing.

but first. a comment about the passage. They searched the scriptures to see if what Paul was saying about the messiah was true, Why? Because the scriptures point to him.

Here is where I see religion, and trying to follow some law or many laws.

We are in the drivers seat. We tell God. Ok God, I am doing what you told. Now what are you going to do for me. We risk getting overwhelmed or get fooled into thinking maybe God does not care. because we obey his laws. We do his religious works, We do everything we think he asks of us, yet we still suffer persecutaion. We still struggle on a daily basis to make ends meat. We see people who do not try to obey God get blessed, We see things whihc just do not seem to add up.

As I said before, I have seen it over and over, and seen people walk away from God in disgust because of it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't accidentally stalemate yourself. Love ya. That's the reason I said that. I believe God wants us to look into the finite details of love, for if we don't, we are vulnerable to define love with mistakes. It's a human nature thing as you said. You cannot struggle with the Word of God in the way you describe if you are led by His Spirit. Granted, there are difficult things to understand in the Bible but everything is focused on Christ Jesus. If one reads the law with that focus, I guarantee you the Spirit will give you understanding.

1 Corinthians 2:12-13 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Thanks.

I am just trying to prevent what I have seen happen with so many people who try to obey the law. and come out with a bad taste in their mouth, because they are focused on self (which the law can cause us to do ) and Not God.

Remember, If I teach a sermon, spend many hours prepairing, and give what I think is a great message, yet no one says good job, I can get into self, and complain. If I work hard and never get recognized, But my friend hardly works at all. but when he does, he gets praised up and down, I can get into self. if I do alof of good things for God. and suffer what I believe is unjustly. I can get angry and again turn to self.

Non of these things can be taught by the law. They can only be taught by looking at Christ.

 

[just-me]

Yes, i agree.

But here in where I see the problem lieing.

but first. a comment about the passage. They searched the scriptures to see if what Paul was saying about the messiah was true, Why? Because the scriptures point to him.

Here is where I see religion, and trying to follow some law or many laws.

We are in the drivers seat. We tell God. Ok God, I am doing what you told. Now what are you going to do for me. We risk getting overwhelmed or get fooled into thinking maybe God does not care. because we obey his laws. We do his religious works, We do everything we think he asks of us, yet we still suffer persecutaion. We still struggle on a daily basis to make ends meat. We see people who do not try to obey God get blessed, We see things whihc just do not seem to add up.

As I said before, I have seen it over and over, and seen people walk away from God in disgust because of it.

I'm sure you don't believe that I'm pumping self justification. I'm pumping Spiritual growth through the Word of God. All of it, not just part of it as I have seen for decades by most religious sects. If anyone advocates that they are justified by the works of the law, it would be seen that I would be trying to clearly define self works as worthless. Where I'm having heartburn, is that some are taking comments out of context, saying others, including myself, are pumping the concept that we are justified by the works of the Mosaic Law. What I'm advocating is how we can grow in Spirit, and in truth by understanding the Spiritual aspects of the Mosaic Law through the Spirit of God. The rhetoric of accusation is a stalemate to Spiritual growth. I'm almost convinced that the accusations against myself and others in this respect, are being done on purpose. There is a difference between self denial, and denial of the truth about ourselves.

 

[just-me]

Thanks.

I am just trying to prevent what I have seen happen with so many people who try to obey the law. and come out with a bad taste in their mouth, because they are focused on self (which the law can cause us to do ) and Not God.

Remember, If I teach a sermon, spend many hours prepairing, and give what I think is a great message, yet no one says good job, I can get into self, and complain. If I work hard and never get recognized, But my friend hardly works at all. but when he does, he gets praised up and down, I can get into self. if I do alof of good things for God. and suffer what I believe is unjustly. I can get angry and again turn to self.

Non of these things can be taught by the law. They can only be taught by looking at Christ.

And I am trying to prevent what I have seen in the religious sect for so long and that is denial of spiritual truth. I've seen, in most evangelical churches, have a fervent hatred for the Mosaic Law and because of that, the majority of conversions in these churches become false conversions because the schoolmaster is fervently hated. So I say to myself, when they say "love one another" - where's the love, where is the love? And then love is defined via human nature which is at enmity against God.

 

[Grandpa]

Many who teach that the law of God is not binding upon man urge that it is impossible for him to obey it's precepts. But, if this were true, why did Adam suffer the penalty of Transgression? The sin of our first parents brought guilt and sorrow upon the world, and had it not been for the goodness and mercy of God, would have plunged the race into hopeless despair. Let none decieve themselves. "The wages of sin is death." The law of God can no more be transgressed with impunity now than when sentence was pronounced upon the father of mankind.

What was Adams sin? Why did it bring guilt and sorrow upon the world?

Adams sin was eating the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

That's just like the 10 commandments, isn't it? Given because of transgression.

Romans 7:7-8
[SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Without the knowledge of good and evil there is no sin. But you can't un-know something.

So we need the Goodness and Mercy of God to save us from this situation that we can't save ourselves from.

What is this Goodness and Mercy? I can tell you its not more fruit from the same tree that Adam ate from.

God's Goodness and Mercy is embodied in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:31-32

[SUP]31 [/SUP]What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
[SUP]32 [/SUP]He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

How does one lay down the sin that so easily besets them? Its not by studying what sin is. Its by coming to Christ and laying it at the foot of the Cross. Its by faith.

 

[Mammachickadee]

"The heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who can know it?"
It is man's inherited nature to sin, but upon justification through faith our sins are no longer counted against us. Do they take us away from God's desired walk for us? They can. Mostly they just temporarily cloud our understanding. Romans 8 addresses the topic of sin's place in a Christian's life very specifically.
Rom. 8:22-30
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[Grandpa]

I think there is. I use the formula God has given because I use the Mosaic Law do identify human nature so I can repent and die daily.

Don't you think it would be better to go to Christ and ask Him to do it instead of relying on your understanding and your sight and your work?

You relied on Him once for your Salvation. Shouldn't you rely on Him to lead you in paths of Righteousness?

If you think it is by the Law that you walk in the paths of Righteousness then you don't hear what the Law says. The old hebrews stumbled and still stumble and that same stumblingstone...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And I am trying to prevent what I have seen in the religious sect for so long and that is denial of spiritual truth. I've seen, in most evangelical churches, have a fervent hatred for the Mosaic Law and because of that, the majority of conversions in these churches become false conversions because the schoolmaster is fervently hated. So I say to myself, when they say "love one another" - where's the love, where is the love? And then love is defined via human nature which is at enmity against God.

I see your point. And agree if it was not being taught at all, and just overlooked. .

But I am almost 50 years old, and have been going to church as long as I can remember.

I have been to churches that focus on the law.

1. I see no joy in these churches.
2. I see alot of pride in these churches.
3. I see alot of condeming and hatred in these churches.
4. I see alot of FAKE Christians in these churches.
5. I have seen alot of people fall away, because they realise they can not do what the church commands them to do. And they are sick of trying to hide their sin, because they are afraid to confess it so they can get help for fear of being judged.

For the past 7 years. I have been going to a church which does not focus on the law (they teach it, but do not focus on it)

1. I see alot of joy
2. i see alot of fellowship
3. i see alot of love
4. I see alot of people who struggle with sin get victory over that sin, and become great leaders and witnesses for others.
5. I see people not afraid of being judged, come and confess their problems, and be open, even to the point of knowing they will be disciplined.
6. I see huge growth, not only in the church, but in the people who are in the church.


So which would I rather see? the one I grew up in? or the one I am going to now?

experience has shown me (and I have been to hundreds of different churhces in my lifetime" that focusing on the law does not work.

 

[just-me]

Don't you think it would be better to go to Christ and ask Him to do it instead of relying on your understanding and your sight and your work?

You relied on Him once for your Salvation. Shouldn't you rely on Him to lead you in paths of Righteousness?

If you think it is by the Law that you walk in the paths of Righteousness then you don't hear what the Law says. The old hebrews stumbled and still stumble and that same stumblingstone...

Why is it better to use another avenue than whatGod has given? You don't have a better way, because your human nature isstanding in the way. What on earth would make you think that I quit relying onthe Truth? Good grief man. What are you accusing me of? Thereit is again, re-defining what I said. You're like a politician when aquestion is asked, and then the politician says, "The question is"and then answers the question he asked instead of the original question thatwas stated. You must think that I don't value the Truth. Read and understandwhat I'm saying. You're like so many other people that I have known. Justmention the Law in the aspect of how God wants us to Spiritually discern it,and then all of a sudden those who endorse as valuable have suddenly lost sightof salvation and are destined to hell, because they are trying to be justifiedby works according to your accusations. Get over it and see the truth, asit was intended form the beginning. Please, I say this because I'mconcerned about your Spiritual understanding. You might be walking onthin ice.

 

[Grandpa]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to eternally-gratefull again.

Dang it...

 

[Grandpa]

Why is it better to use another avenue than whatGod has given? You don't have a better way, because your human nature isstanding in the way. What on earth would make you think that I quit relying onthe Truth? Good grief man. What are you accusing me of? Thereit is again, re-defining what I said. You're like a politician when aquestion is asked, and then the politician says, "The question is"and then answers the question he asked instead of the original question thatwas stated. You must think that I don't value the Truth. Read and understandwhat I'm saying. You're like so many other people that I have known. Justmention the Law in the aspect of how God wants us to Spiritually discern it,and then all of a sudden those who endorse as valuable have suddenly lost sightof salvation and are destined to hell, because they are trying to be justifiedby works according to your accusations. Get over it and see the truth, asit was intended form the beginning. Please, I say this because I'mconcerned about your Spiritual understanding. You might be walking onthin ice.

You don't understand what you are doing. You think you were given the Law so that you might remove your "human nature".

I'm walking on thin ice... Pretty soon there will be no ice and I will be walking on the water straight to my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. By not taking my eyes off of Him. Straight is the Way and narrow is the Path and few there be that find it.

While you are still studying your law and trying to remove your human nature by your own works and understanding. How is that working out for you, btw?

I know what the Law is, I know what its for, and I know what happens when you study it.
I know who Jesus Christ is, I know who He came for, and I know what happens when you study Him.

You don't think there is a demarcation. You think it is a blend. I'm telling you there is no blend. A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

 

[RedTent]

yes i do.. but some have creeped in trying to continue to preach their works based gospel.. we should be as paul and Jesus was, and expose it for what it is, not only for their sake, but for the sake of those who may follow them.


Here is where we may disagree a little. But not enough to fight over..lol

To me, I do not need to look at the 600 and some laws to know how to do right, or know what is sin, or know if I am on the right path again.

Jesus said ALL the law and prophets are in two commands.

Love the lord your God and your neighbor (meaning not your next door neighbor, but anyone you may come across, who may also be your enemy) as yourself.

All sin of any type are spoken of here. because ALL SIN procedes out of a failure to do one of these two commands.

If I love my neighbor. I will not covert what they have, I will not bear false witness against them, I will not kill them, not commit sexual sin with them (or in the case of my wife, against her) I will not sin against them, Instead, I will puff them up with encouragement, Help them grow. be there when they need me, Sacrifice myself for them. etc etc.

THIS is how we obey the law. This is how we know we are maturing in Christ.

NOT looking at 600 and some commands. For human nature will always deceive us, We will always look at what we are obeying, and fail to see the ones we struggle with.

I have seen this in many churches, and many people. People who KNOW they are saved eternally by the grace of God, and KNOW they should walk in the spirit. But fail to grow because they are too focused on the OT law. and what we should not do, and not focused on the law of Christ, and what we should do.

I don't see the profit in deciding to close your mind to learning from scripture with the idea that you don't have to look into such as the 600 to explore God's principles because you have everything with the word love. I don't think that knowing that the basic law is love, all law expresses it, means it is best to then not see how God means that to play out.

I think any time we say we are so smart, that we have everything of God in one portion of scripture, we are missing the mark. That is what people do when they say the law is all. That is what people do when they say love is all.

The reason church people fail to grow is not only because they focus on law. It is because they focus on one aspect of the Lord, any one aspect, and ignore the whole of God's message. That can be as simple as interpreting the meaning of one verse without seeing how it fits in with all of God's ways.

It is not fair to do this by seeing how people focusing on law are missing the mark without seeing how people focusing on other aspects of God while ignoring other aspects are missing the mark.

 

[Mammachickadee]

Roger that "when we are with our Savior" is the moment God enters into you and YOU INTO HIM...

Look how god does it the moment you are BORN OF GOD....
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

The moment God plants His Spirit into you you are a perfect, holy man, with the glory Jesus had as man, and as Son of God right here on earth.... Jesus says that God should make them all PERFECTLY ONE... and He does, because they ALL are made to the fulness of Christ Jesus... to HIS FULNESS and HIS STATURE.... Here Jesus says.... The Glory Father gave Him HE HAS GIVEN US.... That Glory is the HOLY SPIRIT IN HIS FULNESS IN ALL WHO GOD GIVES GLORY....

God said... Those I call, I justify and GLORIFY... that Glorification of God is PERFECTION... It is when you are MADE ONE WITH GOD.... BORN OF GOD.... REBORN AS A HOLY MAN.... TRUE HOLINESS OF GOD... Right here on earth....

God hears NOT the sinners but those that KEEPETH HIS WORDS and DO THEM.... What an awesome God He is and so HOLY.

So you have never sinned since coming to a saving understanding of Christ?
From the point of salvation the Holy Spirit is with us on earth, not us with Christ at the right hand of the throne of God where Christ is until the second coming.

 

[just-me]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to eternally-gratefull again.

Dang it...

Who did that?