Does the Bible claim to be inerrant?

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Nov 23, 2013
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"We believe... in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father."
Nicene Creed, 325 AD

What does begotten mean?

"We don't use the words begetting or begotten much in modern English, but everyone still knows what they mean. To beget is to become the father of: to create is to make. And the difference is this. When you beget, you beget something of the same kind as yourself.
Now that is the first thing to get clear. What God begets is God; just as what man begets is man. What God creates is not God, just as what man creates is not man."


C.S.Lewis
I'll come back to this later, I have to go to airport.
 
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You can't win this argument you see because the KJV has magical properties and is more accurate than even the original manuscripts ;)
Actually, in many ways they're on the same side of the argument. Both are absolutely sure only one version is trustworthy, therefore, they have the same arguments. lol
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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Its probably impossible to create a poll with all possible choices...
Well, when you make a poll it gives you the option of up to 40 choices, but I'm faaaar too lazy to do that!

"Other" covers everything after the options I posted.
 
Nov 24, 2017
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Because "holy" does not mean "perfect".

Also, not every "error" means "corruption".
Modern science is finding out that DNA is information similar to a book. (Psalm 139 :160) When there are errors in the copying of this book we get things like cancer which is corruption. Things that are holy can become corrupted such as the "holy nation" or the "holy men" of the Bible. Gods standard is perfection and He will not settle for less. That is why Jesus Christ died on the cross and it is through him that we are made "perfect" or "holy."

[FONT=&quot]"and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9)

[/FONT]
Authors write books.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Modern science is finding out that DNA is information similar to a book. (Psalm 139 :160) When there are errors in the copying of this book we get things like cancer which is corruption. Things that are holy can become corrupted such as the "holy nation" or the "holy men" of the Bible. Gods standard is perfection and He will not settle for less. That is why Jesus Christ died on the cross and it is through him that we are made "perfect" or "holy."

[FONT="]"and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9)

[/FONT]
Authors write books.
95% of errors in Greek manuscripts are not even possible to translate into English.

Some are possible to translate, but do not change the meaning of the text.

And some are possible to tranlate and change the meaning of the text, but not the message (e.g. was Christ standing or sitting during some preaching).

Only few can change our theology or view, but never a basic, "salvic" one.

--

So not every error means corruption in the end. Actually, most of them do not.
 
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Nov 24, 2017
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95% of errors in Greek manuscripts are not even possible to translate into English.

Some are possible to translate, but do not change the meaning of the text.

And some are possible to tranlate and change the meaning of the text, but not the message (e.g. was Christ standing or sitting during some preaching).

Only few can change our theology or view, but never a basic, "salvic" one.

--

So not every error means corruption in the end. Actually, most of them do not.
Has it dawned on you that the scriptures Jesus was referred to are the same scriptures that Paul used as they were contemporaries? He was concerned with the jots and tittles of the law which is found in the scriptures and you say that the scriptures available to Paul had errors! Your position that there were errors in the scriptures available at that time is not one that can be maintained if you actually believe what the Bible says. Maybe the scribe made an error and forgot a "jot!"
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Has it dawned on you that the scriptures Jesus was referred to are the same scriptures that Paul used as they were contemporaries? He was concerned with the jots and tittles of the law which is found in the scriptures and you say that the scriptures available to Paul had errors! Your position that there were errors in the scriptures available at that time is not one that can be maintained if you actually believe what the Bible says. Maybe the scribe made an error and forgot a "jot!"
Are you saying that in the time of Christ all copies of Scriptures were totally the same?

Have you heard of Dead Sea Scrolls, for example?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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"We believe... in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father."
Nicene Creed, 325 AD

What does begotten mean?

"We don't use the words begetting or begotten much in modern English, but everyone still knows what they mean. To beget is to become the father of: to create is to make. And the difference is this. When you beget, you beget something of the same kind as yourself.
Now that is the first thing to get clear. What God begets is God; just as what man begets is man. What God creates is not God, just as what man creates is not man."


C.S.Lewis
Jesus was begotten here:

Psalms 2:7 I will declare the decree: the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

This is speaking of his earthly body, Jesus existed before this. So no I don't agree with the assasins creede... I mean Nicean creede.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Are you saying that in the time of Christ all copies of Scriptures were totally the same?

Have you heard of Dead Sea Scrolls, for example?
Do you agree that the Gnostics were writing false gospels at the same time the real gospels were being written?
 
Nov 26, 2012
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How does one know if they're being led by the Holy Spirit or as the KJV says "another spirit"?
If anyone preaches a different Christ, they shouldn’t be trusted. The glue that holds truth, the New Testament, and the promises there in is emphatically based on that Yeshua is the Messiah, Saviour, Lamb of God (our sacrifice for sins), Light of the World, current Lord of our life and future King. Anything in contradiction to these elemental beliefs does not only undermine the foundation of Christianity, but reduces scripture in its entirety to a bedtime story based on historical facts and figures.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Do you agree that the Gnostics were writing false gospels at the same time the real gospels were being written?
Roughly in the same time. I would say gnostic writings were little later.
 
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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Do you agree that the Gnostics were writing false gospels at the same time the real gospels were being written?
I thought they were written after.

Circa AD 350-400
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Roughly in the same time. I would say gnostic writings were little later.
How do you know the dead sea scrolls weren't the Gnostic writings or at least a mix of Gnostic writings. That could be said of all the existing fragments too.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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If anyone preaches a different Christ, they shouldn’t be trusted. The glue that holds truth, the New Testament, and the promises there in is emphatically based on that Yeshua is the Messiah, Saviour, Lamb of God (our sacrifice for sins), Light of the World, current Lord of our life and future King. Anything in contradiction to these elemental beliefs does not only undermine the foundation of Christianity, but reduces scripture in its entirety to a bedtime story based on historical facts and figures.
There have always (as far back as I can see) been 2 Jesus', 2 suffering, dying and resurrecting Messiah's. The real one, and the counterfiets like Osiris, Mythra and I forget the rest of their names. How do we know which Christ is the right one being spoken of in a bible?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Question for all, is the dead Jesus on the popes little stick thingy the real Christ or the fake one?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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How do you know the dead sea scrolls weren't the Gnostic writings or at least a mix of Gnostic writings. That could be said of all the existing fragments too.
Isaiah, Jeremiah etc are not gnostic writings. Scriptures with scribal erros are not gnostic writings.

If I will quote a verse to you, for example "In the beginning God the heaven and the earth" and accidentally leave out the word "created", it does not make it gnostic...
 
Nov 24, 2017
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Are you saying that in the time of Christ all copies of Scriptures were totally the same?

Have you heard of Dead Sea Scrolls, for example?
I am saying that it makes no sense for Jesus to mention the jots and tittles if there are errors whether they be in the form of omissions, additions or any other mistakes. He was confident in the scriptures (as was Paul) that were available to those that heard him. If you can prove that Jesus was referring to the Dead Sea Scrolls then you might have a case but they were probably the work of heretics as the majority of the scrolls found there were non-biblical!
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Isaiah, Jeremiah etc are not gnostic writings. Scriptures with scribal erros are not gnostic writings.

If I will quote a verse to you, for example "In the beginning God the heaven and the earth" and accidentally leave out the word "created", it does not make it gnostic...
Gnosticism isn't new, we may know of it as gnosticism because of the gnostics around Christ's time but that theology has always been around.

So take new testament fragments then, how do you know which are the correct ones and which are the perversions?
 
Nov 24, 2017
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Isaiah, Jeremiah etc are not gnostic writings. Scriptures with scribal erros are not gnostic writings.

If I will quote a verse to you, for example "In the beginning God the heaven and the earth" and accidentally leave out the word "created", it does not make it gnostic...
The majority of the Dead Sea Scrolls are non-biblical! They were probably the "Mormon" Jews!
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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The majority of the Dead Sea Scrolls are non-biblical! They were probably the "Mormon" Jews!
So what? If you will go to any house today, most of books there are not Bibles. That does not make such homes "mormon".