Does the Tree of Life overcome the tree of knowledge?
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To my knowledge the tree of life is spoken of thrice in the NT, all in John's Revelation on Patmos.
In Proverbs, it is spoke of several times, all related to attention and obedience to God's speaking, word, wisdom (3:18; 11:30; 13:12; 15:4) In the fourth gospel, Jesus said, "For me, my food is to do the Father's will", then he said, "Even as I obey the Father's command, so should you obey my command."
So from this I can see that obedience to the divine word is giving life, and disobedience brings death.
Now, how does this relate to the Tree of Life in Revelation? Revelation 2:7 says, "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God."
What do we see in the Garden of Eden? Many trees, good for food, fruits abundant. One was forbidden. The disobedience of God's command caused separation, condemnation, death. Now we see Jesus, obedient (eating food) and are told to also be obedient (eating food). Proverbs repeatedly shows this obedience to God's word as "the tree of life".
Now the Ephesian church gets the same charge: "be victorious". She has some knowledge of 'truth' of God's word but needs to love, to obey the Royal Decree, "Love one another". Love has left Ephesus, but if it returns (obedience to Christ's command to love) she will eat of the fruit of the Tree of Life.
Now we come to the two interesting verses at the end of the Bible, opening the last chapter of Revelation. In 22:1 we see a very available tree, growing along side the river of water of life, the street of gold, connected to the throne at the center of the universe. Fruit abundant, always produced in season (1 fruit per month - no 'dry season' here).
Then the "ethnon" which elsewhere in the NT is translated as "gentiles" get the healing from the leaves. Not, mind you, the fruit, but healing from the leaves. Some lesser access it seems. The kings of the nations get to walk in the light of the NJ, they bring their glory into it (tribute), and their citizens are healed by its leaves. They do not eat fruit but rather are healed by leaves.
Pretty interesting stuff
In Proverbs, it is spoke of several times, all related to attention and obedience to God's speaking, word, wisdom (3:18; 11:30; 13:12; 15:4) In the fourth gospel, Jesus said, "For me, my food is to do the Father's will", then he said, "Even as I obey the Father's command, so should you obey my command."
So from this I can see that obedience to the divine word is giving life, and disobedience brings death.
Now, how does this relate to the Tree of Life in Revelation? Revelation 2:7 says, "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God."
What do we see in the Garden of Eden? Many trees, good for food, fruits abundant. One was forbidden. The disobedience of God's command caused separation, condemnation, death. Now we see Jesus, obedient (eating food) and are told to also be obedient (eating food). Proverbs repeatedly shows this obedience to God's word as "the tree of life".
Now the Ephesian church gets the same charge: "be victorious". She has some knowledge of 'truth' of God's word but needs to love, to obey the Royal Decree, "Love one another". Love has left Ephesus, but if it returns (obedience to Christ's command to love) she will eat of the fruit of the Tree of Life.
Now we come to the two interesting verses at the end of the Bible, opening the last chapter of Revelation. In 22:1 we see a very available tree, growing along side the river of water of life, the street of gold, connected to the throne at the center of the universe. Fruit abundant, always produced in season (1 fruit per month - no 'dry season' here).
Then the "ethnon" which elsewhere in the NT is translated as "gentiles" get the healing from the leaves. Not, mind you, the fruit, but healing from the leaves. Some lesser access it seems. The kings of the nations get to walk in the light of the NJ, they bring their glory into it (tribute), and their citizens are healed by its leaves. They do not eat fruit but rather are healed by leaves.
Pretty interesting stuff
I don't know how to edit so will tag this onto the other post.
Small correction to the quote above: It was supposed to be Revelation 22:2, not verse 1.
Then we have Revelation 22:19, where disobedience to the prophecy is warned against. "And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll." If you remove God's word you are taking away access to the tree of life. How can people obey, if they don't hear? See Paul's word in Romans 10:15
Small correction to the quote above: It was supposed to be Revelation 22:2, not verse 1.
Then we have Revelation 22:19, where disobedience to the prophecy is warned against. "And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll." If you remove God's word you are taking away access to the tree of life. How can people obey, if they don't hear? See Paul's word in Romans 10:15
So how does the "multitude of individuals" of Revelation 22:2 getting healed by the leaves differ, if at all, from the "multitude of individuals" elsewhere in the NT? Paul for instance, keeps saying how he was commissioned to preach to the "ethnos" and this is put in contradistinction to the Jews. Then the gospels have Jesus repeatedly warning his (Jewish) followers and disciples not to be like the "ethnos".
In Revelation the same pattern of contradistinction is followed - there is the abundant fruit to eat, then there is the "ethnos" getting healed by the leaves. So the question is, does the pattern of usage of John here differ from the clear precedent set elsewhere in the NT?
In Revelation the same pattern of contradistinction is followed - there is the abundant fruit to eat, then there is the "ethnos" getting healed by the leaves. So the question is, does the pattern of usage of John here differ from the clear precedent set elsewhere in the NT?
For confirmation see Hebrews 5:8,9 "Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered. And having been made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him." We don't see "life" here but obedience to God's word bringing perfection and salvation. And importantly, it is in the same order as in John's gospel: Jesus obeys the Father, and is raised from the dead to eternal glory, and we the disciples obey the word of the Master (Kurios) and ourselves are saved. It is through our obedience that we have a means to the Father. The Tree of Life was cut off from humanity in Genesis 3, but Jesus' obedience brought it back. Now we obey him, and live.
I always thought of the Tree of Knowledge as the "Law" and the Tree of Life as Jesus. Jesus didn't exactly overcome the Law, he fulfilled it. He took the consequences of the Tree of Knowledge (which is knowledge of sin) away, ergo, eternal life despite knowledge and shame of sin.
That's sort of my take on it.
That's sort of my take on it.
If it were possible for one to be correct in one thing and at the same time be wrong, you've hit it.
Yes, the proof you are correct is:
Psalm 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Spot on!
Where you're off the mark a little:
Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Fortunately for us, that's not the case and we are completely passengers on the road through life with Jesus driving. By his mercy I even study his word.
Free will can not be a substitute for the root. We either abide in it or not. What we want or attempt to do by our own will has nothing to do with it.
And by the way, I'll tell you how bad I actually am. When I say bad, I mean wretched.
I'm a hardcore online gamer who no-lifed for years. And still do. But, for some inexplicable reason, I started getting bored with the games and go to the bible now and study. That was never my intention. I got mad at a lot of the stuff I read and said screw it. I'm going back ingame. But, I kept going back and studying and I quit showing up ingame with friends online who were waiting for me for online raiding for yet another lost night after night.
I am totally wretched but ... I've heard the trumpet sound.
Amos 3:8 The lion hath roared, who will not fear? the Lord GOD hath spoken, who can but prophesy?
Tell me, is that your "free will?"
Yes, the proof you are correct is:
Psalm 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Spot on!
Where you're off the mark a little:
Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Fortunately for us, that's not the case and we are completely passengers on the road through life with Jesus driving. By his mercy I even study his word.
Free will can not be a substitute for the root. We either abide in it or not. What we want or attempt to do by our own will has nothing to do with it.
And by the way, I'll tell you how bad I actually am. When I say bad, I mean wretched.
I'm a hardcore online gamer who no-lifed for years. And still do. But, for some inexplicable reason, I started getting bored with the games and go to the bible now and study. That was never my intention. I got mad at a lot of the stuff I read and said screw it. I'm going back ingame. But, I kept going back and studying and I quit showing up ingame with friends online who were waiting for me for online raiding for yet another lost night after night.
I am totally wretched but ... I've heard the trumpet sound.
Amos 3:8 The lion hath roared, who will not fear? the Lord GOD hath spoken, who can but prophesy?
Tell me, is that your "free will?"
You have a history of having a problem with free will ..I'm telling you the tree of knowledge isn't going to be a thing after Judgment ..so what happens to free will? I think it's fallen free will to Righteous Free Will. We still deal with the tree of knowledge right now in this fallen reality ..I'm talking about the afterlife.
Did you ever consider that we are where we are precisely because of God's wisdom and design?
Why this master plan? It's a mystery, but it's declared.
Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
Why this master plan? It's a mystery, but it's declared.
Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
even satan has a free will
2 Timothy 2:26
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
https://www.gotquestions.org/angels-free-will.html
satan turned the tree of knowledge into his free will perception
2 Timothy 2:26
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
https://www.gotquestions.org/angels-free-will.html
satan turned the tree of knowledge into his free will perception
God's holy law simply tells us what kills us, the knowledge of the law is not what kills us, it is when we are not forgiven for not obeying the law. When Adam and Eve learned about sin through the tree of knowledge, God immediately gave blood on the altar, as the sacrifice of animals was to symbolize Christ, to take care of the death that unforgiven sin brings on. Christ completed that and made it perfect about 4,000 years later.