While I agree, The law is not the problem we are. Paul did say the law caused sin to increase. Just look at life, When a law is given, people are carnal, they want to break that law. How dare someone tell me what to do. Even a child. may never go to the cookee jar But tell him now, and he will be tempted. I ask myself the question what did Paul mean? Did the law make the child do it, or did the law simply reveal in greater detail the rebellious nature of the child? I think Logic would dictate that the issue is still us not the law. I think that is what you are saying above am I right?
Also. This is what paul says about the law and making us righteous people.
Galatians 3:21
Is the
law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
The law can not make us moral people. it was never given for that reason, it was given to lead us to Christ, Because we are convicted by the law as sinners. I agree with this also, The Law only states what is right or what is not sin. Eg it is not sin to not kill etc. But knowing that does not save. It only revealed the sin in us already. The fact that we continue to break it after we know revels the deep nature of the sin in us already. Sin is the problem not the law.
Again
While your right, Do not steal, covet etc is not our problem. They do not tell us how to overcome the problem when we have a tendency to do those things.
How many times have someone actually stopped doing something they really like to do because someone said stop it? Not very many Yes I agree with this, My post was not about how we are saved but rather that the law is not our problem. Sin and death came before the law. The law did not bring these things as Paul said.
People need reasons to stop. The law did not give us that reason, or an explanation of why, Only do not do it, And it did not even give us complete details of what would constitute breaking that sin, (see Jesus and his sermon on the mount, when he discusses this fact)Just a quick note on the bit about the sermon on the mount, While it was not spelled out in the 10 commandments it is all there in the OT law. Jesus did not bring new teachings but for a Jew who missed the point He brought new understanding. But one can teach everything Jesus taught from the OT.
The law is written to the lawless to lead them to christ, Not the righteous who are in christ, Asking a believer to go back to law is not going to help them learn how to be like christ, It was never given for that purpose. All it can do is continue to condemn, or cause a person to water down the law so they can feel like they are ok. I see this part a little different to you I think. the law did more than just point out sin. It did so by showing what is right to do. That is why Paul said it is good as the OT says. To the person who is in their natural carnal state it does indeed condemn, But make no mistake it does not condemn one who is not so. Jesus being an example of one the law itself could not condemn. This is true also for those who have been forgiven and saved form sin the law that brought condemnation now testifies to the righteousness of Christ in the converted person.
Thanx for the reply some good points in there find my comments if interested in red. Blessings.
Continuing on the last thought in Red. Paul said this of the law:
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Notice that the same law that made the world guilty because all have sinned also acts as a witness to the righteousness of God. This is the righteousness of Christ which we receive by faith. It is not talking about Jesus himself in the sense of Just Him it is in regards to Us having the righteousness of God by faith is it is written:
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
So it is that by faith we are transformed from sinners to the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.
Now the law still says the same thing. For example
Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
now we know its deeper than simply physically killing, even the OT teaches that. But for the sake of illustration lets keep it simple.
thou shalt not kill, condemns anyone that kills because killing is sin.
But thou shalt not kill when seen next to person who does not kill is now a witness to the righteousness of God in the person. A witness to the saving of God from sin.
the one who killed now no longer kills thus they must have the righteousness of God. One need only apply the same to every commandment.
Its Jesus that saves not the law. The law stays the same its just writing on stone. It either condemns as a sinner or witnesses to the conversion by faith in Christ.
Either the heart is carnal and the law condemns
Or the heart now has the law written on it and the law bears witness to the work of God in the one who has faith.
As it is written:
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
and again:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
The law is established by the work of God through faith in converting the sinner. The law bears witness that the person is changed by grace as it is written:
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, d
o by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which
shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
The new creature that God haw written his law on will now do the things contained in the law thus the law bears witness.
Sin is over come as it is written:
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Sin has lost its power when we put our faith in Jesus. We no longer walk in sin. The law is then fulfilled in us as it is written:
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me
free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
This is conversion. This is salvation.
It stands to reason that if the problem is not the law but sin in us. Then the solution is not to edit or get rid of the law but rather to get rid of sin in us. Anything short of that is no salvation at all. Hence it is written:
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Note not the law but sin.
and here:
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:
for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that
he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children,
let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
this is salvation and the law which condemned the one who does sin acts as a witness of the work of God in the one who does righteousness and no sin.
blessings.