DRINKING AND THE SCRIPTURES
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Proverbs 23:29-33, Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at wine; they that go seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Thine eyes shall behold strange woman, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
now read that verse carefully. it says those who linger long at wine, those that go in search of mixed drink. all the symptoms are the result of getting drunk or being hung over. now I know the best way to avoid both those things is not to drink. but please do not condem someone, like myself, who choses to have the occasional drink but never gets drunk. the Scripture gives freedom to obstain or consume in moderation. lt is an individual choice.
E
True...........but there are some of us who willingly choose to abstain because Jesus said He would not partake of the fruit of the vine until once again He returned................ 
and that's ok to...........
and that's ok to...........
but we should not judge those who do have a drink every now and then. I have a social drink occasionally. and do not see anything wrong biblically or morally
amen. and this is fine.
but we should not judge those who do have a drink every now and then. I have a social drink occasionally. and do not see anything wrong biblically or morally
but we should not judge those who do have a drink every now and then. I have a social drink occasionally. and do not see anything wrong biblically or morally
E
well of course. and I would agree.
the thought though, that people can not control themselves, and thus should just not do it altogether to keep them from temptation, is a jewish fable (they tried it with many things, even wrote a book of does and don'ts) I know many (myself included) who do not even think of getting drunk, or drinking to much.
although when I was a young lad, I drank to get drunk. and did it alot. (yes I know. I was a sinful young lad) I have no desire or think about it now.
a jewish wedding last over a week. (when jesus made water into wine, you will find, it was gallons, he made.)
ie john never came,eating nor drinking, jesus came eating and drink. ........ so wisdom is proven correct.
dose this conclude to opinion vary, or action vary.
(food for thought),1) why make wine, if you cant drink it. 2) opinion and actions, vary. depending what the lords purpose is, ie paul say I try to win as many as possible, ie from all ways of life. 3) how did mary ,his mum, know he could make water into wine..
ie john never came,eating nor drinking, jesus came eating and drink. ........ so wisdom is proven correct.
dose this conclude to opinion vary, or action vary.
(food for thought),1) why make wine, if you cant drink it. 2) opinion and actions, vary. depending what the lords purpose is, ie paul say I try to win as many as possible, ie from all ways of life. 3) how did mary ,his mum, know he could make water into wine..
If these guys can't drink every now & then, how will they be able to go to all those Christmas & New Year's parties with the real drunks? How will they be able to drink beer with their sinner friends while watching the football game? And let's not forget after having a few, they then have the excuse to blurt profanities & listen to dirty jokes.
it is not drinking that makes folks behave like you said, the bad behavior is already in them and drinking too much lets it come out. it is not a sin to have non-Christian friends. we are not to be yoked to unbelivers, it does not say we can not associate with them. another Pentecostal rule that is not in the Bible.
Romans 7:18 (KJV) [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Working on a production line is association. Worldly fellowship with drinking buddies is unequally yoked.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 (KJV) [SUP]14 [/SUP]Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? [SUP]15 [/SUP]And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? [SUP]16 [/SUP]And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, [SUP]18 [/SUP]And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Whose rules were you blaming? I would appreciate it if you keep that Pentecostal slander to yourself.
Working on a production line is association. Worldly fellowship with drinking buddies is unequally yoked.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 (KJV) [SUP]14 [/SUP]Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? [SUP]15 [/SUP]And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? [SUP]16 [/SUP]And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, [SUP]18 [/SUP]And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Whose rules were you blaming? I would appreciate it if you keep that Pentecostal slander to yourself.
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P
The Greek word "oinos" refers to both alcoholic and non-alcoholic grape juice. The Perfect sinless Savior would not go to a wedding feast where people were intoxicated and cause them to be more drunk. That is ludicrous.
"It is not for Kings to drink wine....." Proverbs 31 warns. Jesus was the King of Kings.
Proverbs 23 warns of the folly and shame of drinking, even looking upon it.
Yeast was a figure of corruption in Jesus ministry and so he used unleavened bread and unfermented grape at the last supper.
Hab 2:14- "woe to him who gives drink to his neighbors..."
"It is not for Kings to drink wine....." Proverbs 31 warns. Jesus was the King of Kings.
Proverbs 23 warns of the folly and shame of drinking, even looking upon it.
Yeast was a figure of corruption in Jesus ministry and so he used unleavened bread and unfermented grape at the last supper.
Hab 2:14- "woe to him who gives drink to his neighbors..."
T
I have been a delivered Alcoholic for 17 years and I will never be bound by this again and I do abstain for this reason.
I have researched extensively about this topic and did every word study in the Hebrew and Greek word referencing wine, strong drink, drunkard, etc in the Bible.
I cannot recall there being a word that means non-fermented in the OT. Most of the Hebrew words for wine, mean grapes, species of vine[grape plants], color of red.
The OT Hebrew word wine means grapes and it does NOT specify whether or not the grapes are un-fermneted or fermented.
The OT Hebrew word for word strong drink, does mean fermented and intoxicating.
But that does not mean we must get spiritually and religiously creative and deduce wine means non fermented.
When the OT word for wine is used, it is usually in scriptures that deal with drunk, so because of that we know there was no un-fermented "grape Juice" spoken of in the Bible, neither is there a non fermented jelly wine, that was sweet wine, mos think this is what Nehemiah was referring to in Neh 8/.10 but the word sweet there has no reference to wine.
The word wine in the NT likewise does not make differentiate between fermented and non fermented. Many hang their hat that we are not to drink on the new wine/old wine found in John 2. However, the word for wine in John 2 is not the same word found in Acts 2. the word in Acts 2 is NEW WINE, while in John 2 it is simply wine. We also know that NEW WINE used in Acts 2, was fermented because the scoffers said Peter and all of them were drunk on NEW WINE.
I personally believe man has dreamed up the notion of unfermented grape juice and other such nonsense to remain religious and pious,. This debate shows without question, that mans 5 senses are attempting to quantify in its own understanding that Jesus and other Bible folks never drank alcoholic wine...but the simple truth is, they more than likely did, because no where in the Bible will you find any reference to UNFERMENTED GRAPE JUICE or GRAPE JELLY SWEET DRINKS.
Now before I am summarily stoned, lets remind ourselves of what Paul said in Romans 14 and most importantly ROmans 14.17
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
I believe that men made up stories to preach abstaining and one of the greatest hypocrites to this was none other than CI Scofield, who was and died a drunk.
I think lying about word studies in thr bible is far more dangerous than a person that imbibes a few glasses of wine a year.
I have researched extensively about this topic and did every word study in the Hebrew and Greek word referencing wine, strong drink, drunkard, etc in the Bible.
I cannot recall there being a word that means non-fermented in the OT. Most of the Hebrew words for wine, mean grapes, species of vine[grape plants], color of red.
The OT Hebrew word wine means grapes and it does NOT specify whether or not the grapes are un-fermneted or fermented.
The OT Hebrew word for word strong drink, does mean fermented and intoxicating.
But that does not mean we must get spiritually and religiously creative and deduce wine means non fermented.
When the OT word for wine is used, it is usually in scriptures that deal with drunk, so because of that we know there was no un-fermented "grape Juice" spoken of in the Bible, neither is there a non fermented jelly wine, that was sweet wine, mos think this is what Nehemiah was referring to in Neh 8/.10 but the word sweet there has no reference to wine.
The word wine in the NT likewise does not make differentiate between fermented and non fermented. Many hang their hat that we are not to drink on the new wine/old wine found in John 2. However, the word for wine in John 2 is not the same word found in Acts 2. the word in Acts 2 is NEW WINE, while in John 2 it is simply wine. We also know that NEW WINE used in Acts 2, was fermented because the scoffers said Peter and all of them were drunk on NEW WINE.
I personally believe man has dreamed up the notion of unfermented grape juice and other such nonsense to remain religious and pious,. This debate shows without question, that mans 5 senses are attempting to quantify in its own understanding that Jesus and other Bible folks never drank alcoholic wine...but the simple truth is, they more than likely did, because no where in the Bible will you find any reference to UNFERMENTED GRAPE JUICE or GRAPE JELLY SWEET DRINKS.
Now before I am summarily stoned, lets remind ourselves of what Paul said in Romans 14 and most importantly ROmans 14.17
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
I believe that men made up stories to preach abstaining and one of the greatest hypocrites to this was none other than CI Scofield, who was and died a drunk.
I think lying about word studies in thr bible is far more dangerous than a person that imbibes a few glasses of wine a year.
T
No "oinos" does not mean both fermented and non-fermented. It is lies like this that truly make the body stumble. The greek word Oinos comes from the Hebrew word Yayin, which also means wine.
Part of the word Oinos means bursting of grape skins, which implies fermentation.
My debate here is not about whether a Christian should drink or not, my debate is seeing the truth of the Word and for centuries man as completely lied about wine in the Bible to say pious and religious....
Part of the word Oinos means bursting of grape skins, which implies fermentation.
My debate here is not about whether a Christian should drink or not, my debate is seeing the truth of the Word and for centuries man as completely lied about wine in the Bible to say pious and religious....