Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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God chose people before the foundation so that they should be holy and blameless before Him in love. That’s what the scripture says.
That’s Calvinism 101. That’s your private interpretation of the scripture.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Ok, allow me to exit the discussion. Stay in the Word and conform your beliefs to it. God bless
Amen brother, you do the same. I don’t mind our discussions at all. I’m not one to get upset. I just enjoy studying the word.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
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That’s Calvinism 101. That’s your private interpretation of the scripture.
According as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world that should be holy and without blame before Him in love. Ephesians 1:4
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
not chose us to be in Christ
This is the correct understanding.

"In Christ" are the key words .. other key words .... "Just as"

Ephesians 1:4
.........who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

These blessings are for those in Christ...that is Paul's point.

“Just as".. ......

I can lay out what is plainly the author's intent and focus but it is of no consequence because of confirmation bias.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
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Amen brother, you do the same. I don’t mind our discussions at all. I’m not one to get upset. I just enjoy studying the word.
I’m not upset. I spend to much time on here, and I know I’m not good at being moderate with time consuming activities sometimes. God bless
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,753
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This is the correct understanding.

"In Christ" are the key words .. other key words .... "Just as"

Ephesians 1:4
.........who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

These blessings are for those in Christ...that is Paul's point.

“Just as".. ......

I can lay out what is plainly the author's intent and focus but it is of no consequence because of confirmation bias.
You cannot erase “chose us in Him before the foundation of the world”.

You seem to have confirmation bias.

Walk in the paths of peace.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,753
1,016
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This is the correct understanding.

"In Christ" are the key words .. other key words .... "Just as"

Ephesians 1:4
.........who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

These blessings are for those in Christ...that is Paul's point.

“Just as".. ......

I can lay out what is plainly the author's intent and focus but it is of no consequence because of confirmation bias.
Correction. These blessings are for those who were chosen in Christ.

That we should be holy and without blame before Him in love. (´ινα of purpose).

Fare ye well!!
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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I think you need to review TULIP again.

Calvinists generally deny the Arminian doctrine of prevenient grace.
Calvinsts yes of course . I was talking about Arminains tweaked version of irresistible grace .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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You cannot erase “chose us in Him before the foundation of the world”.

You seem to have confirmation bias.

Walk in the paths of peace.
I think everyone is waiting with great anticipation to your explanation of what you mean by ' 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: ? The way your describing your understanding of this verse is sounding like your saying either you ' were chosen to be in him before the foundation to be placed in him later after you were born . Or ' you were in him before you were born to simply be ' awakened ' after you were born at some point in time later . ' . This is what we don't understand from what your saying ? if its something different, please share .
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
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I think everyone is waiting with great anticipation to your explanation of what you mean by ' 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: ? The way your describing your understanding of this verse is sounding like your saying either you ' were chosen to be in him before the foundation to be placed in him later after you were born . Or ' you were in him before you were born to simply be ' awakened ' after you were born at some point in time later . ' . This is what we don't understand from what your saying ? if its something different, please share .
Shouldn’t you be saying “what does Paul mean?” Those are his words, not mine.

I’m going to keep it simple. We are chosen in Him in Christ meaning that our election is not based on any good thing or worthiness in us, but upon the work that Christ did on our behalf.

Before the foundation of the world means that election took place before creation.

We’re we in Christ before we were born? No. Then how can we be chosen in Christ before we were in Christ.

The same way that Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. It says slain from the foundation of the world, yet He was slain in time.

It was fixed and settled in the mind of God. So fixed and settled that it is spoken of as fulfilled before it happens

Just as in Romans 8:30, which speaks of glorification as already fulfilled, though the resurrection has not yet taken place.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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Shouldn’t you be saying “what does Paul mean?” Those are his words, not mine.

I’m going to keep it simple. We are chosen in Him in Christ meaning that our election is not based on any good thing or worthiness in us, but upon the work that Christ did on our behalf.///

Before the foundation of the world means that election took place before creation.

We’re we in Christ before we were born? No. Then how can we be chosen in Christ before we were in Christ.

The same way that Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. It says slain from the foundation of the world, yet He was slain in time.

It was fixed and settled in the mind of God. So fixed and settled that it is spoken of as fulfilled before it happens

Just as in Romans 8:30, which speaks of glorification as already fulfilled, though the resurrection has not yet taken place.
' from the foundation of the world ,the lamb slain . Not ' before. And this is Jesus , not you .

So do you believe that you were chosen ' hand picked in the mind of God ' , not because of anything God saw in you . An arbitrary choosing, unconditionally before you were born . Kind of ' marked out ' to BE placed into Jesus later in real time ? And by that there are others who God has not chosen and therefore are ' passed over ' not to be placed into Jesus, thus they are destined for hell ? And do you believe in a particular atonement as you say that ///but upon the work that Christ did on our behalf./// Do you mean that Jesus only died on behalf of those ' elected prior ?
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
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' from the foundation of the world ,the lamb slain . Not ' before. And this is Jesus , not you .

So do you believe that you were chosen ' hand picked in the mind of God ' , not because of anything God saw in you . An arbitrary choosing, unconditionally before you were born . Kind of ' marked out ' to BE placed into Jesus later in real time ? And by that there are others who God has not chosen and therefore are ' passed over ' not to be placed into Jesus, thus they are destined for hell ? And do you believe in a particular atonement as you say that ///but upon the work that Christ did on our behalf./// Do you mean that Jesus only died on behalf of those ' elected prior ?
Boy, you read a lot into what people say.

I mentioned the Lamb slain, because it illustrates God’s foreknowledge, as does Romans 8:30

And if you think you were elected and saved on any basis other than Christ‘S righteousness, I don’t know what to tell you. I said we were not elected based on anything good or any worthiness In us. FACT. None righteous, no not one

We were not elected in ourselves Or our own worthiness , but in Christ and His worthiness

Besides that, I never said anything about unconditional election, God passing over people, or the rest of the confusion you typed.

You have a false dichotomy of double predestination vs election in time, as if those are the only two possible meanings of Ephesians 1:4.

I do not believe in double predestination. I believe in election based on foreknowledge, which is neither double predestination nor election in time.

I’ve explained my position thoroughly. If you disagree, that’s ok with me. I’m not going to keep answering the same question over and over again.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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Boy, you read a lot into what people say.

I mentioned the Lamb slain, because it illustrates God’s foreknowledge, as does Romans 8:30

And if you think you were elected and saved on any basis other than Christ‘S righteousness, I don’t know what to tell you. I said we were not elected based on anything good or any worthiness In us. FACT. None righteous, no not one

We were not elected in ourselves Or our own worthiness , but in Christ and His worthiness

Besides that, I never said anything about unconditional election, God passing over people, or the rest of the confusion you typed.

You have a false dichotomy of double predestination vs election in time, as if those are the only two possible meanings of Ephesians 1:4.

I do not believe in double predestination. I believe in election based on foreknowledge, which is neither double predestination nor election in time.

I’ve explained my position thoroughly. If you disagree, that’s ok with me. I’m not going to keep answering the same question over and over again.
I see the bible ONLY uses the word ELECT in relation to service and purpose and NEVER in relation to Salvation at all . Please do the word study . Everyone is saved on the basis of Faith in Jesus, his death burial and resurrection. Not on any secret choosing in the mind of God in eternity past . You have a vague explanation of How a person is saved , when pressed . I may have to file you under ' question mark? ' for now . I think you said earlier that your view of ' election ' is undecided ( something like that , correct me if I'm wrong ) so I think this is why your giving out mixed messages on ' election ' .
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,753
1,016
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I see the bible ONLY uses the word ELECT in relation to service and purpose and NEVER in relation to Salvation at all . Please do the word study . Everyone is saved on the basis of Faith in Jesus, his death burial and resurrection. Not on any secret choosing in the mind of God in eternity past . You have a vague explanation of How a person is saved , when pressed . I may have to file you under ' question mark? ' for now . I think you said earlier that your view of ' election ' is undecided ( something like that , correct me if I'm wrong ) so I think this is why your giving out mixed messages on ' election ' .
Don’t fail to realize that eklektos is translated chosen also And eklego is translated choose so you might want to add words like chosen, chose, etc to your list. Same root Greek word translated elect is often translated chosen.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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Don’t fail to realize that eklektos is translated chosen also And eklego is translated choose so you might want to add words like chosen, chose, etc to your list. Same root Greek word translated elect is often translated chosen.
Yes . we can add ' choose ' ' Chosen ' ect and everytime is connected to service and purpose . No one in any sense was chosen to be saved . Or ' marked ' out for salvation. Or chosen in the mind of God for salvation. We are ONLY saved through faith in real time .
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,753
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Yes . we can add ' choose ' ' Chosen ' ect and everytime is connected to service and purpose . No one in any sense was chosen to be saved . Or ' marked ' out for salvation. Or chosen in the mind of God for salvation. We are ONLY saved through faith in real time .
Yep. To be Holy and blameless before Him in love ( Ephesians 1:4) is a good purpose. And in case you don’t know, that’s salvation language. According as He Chose in Him before the foundation of the world that we might be holy and without blame before Him in love

I see sanctification, justification, and reconciliation there!!

Enjoy the day God has gifted you
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
13,824
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Yep. To be Holy and blameless before Him in love ( Ephesians 1:4) is a good purpose. And in case you don’t know, that’s salvation language. According as He Chose in Him before the foundation of the world that we might be holy and without blame before Him in love

I see sanctification, justification, and reconciliation there!!

Enjoy the day God has gifted you
Holy means set apart...without blame never means sinless...just so you know.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,753
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Holy means set apart...without blame never means sinless...just so you know.
When you are justified you are without blame. And we are set apart the moment we believe. That’s why Christians are called saints repeatedly in the Bible
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
You cannot erase “chose us in Him before the foundation of the world”.

You seem to have confirmation bias.

Walk in the paths of peace.
No one is erasing ...but what is happening is the missing of the context of the entire passage... which is verse 4 starting with "just as"
and us is not "elect" but "us who believe."

It is the eternal plan before the foundation of the world, not a select group of people chosen by God.

Verse 4: The eternal plan of God is the spiritual blessing of a Christian’s innocence.
Verse 5: adoption.
Verse 7: redemption.
Verse 9: revelation.
Verse 11: inheritance.
Verse 13: indwelling.