Election and predestination.
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John146 said:
Funny, this website literally says "25 verses about predestination" and there are only 4 verses that actually contain the word. Red flag.
I just can't resist this question.
None, because the word doesn't exist in the Bible. Because the concept doesn't either, at least the way it's usually understood.
Yes, all living believers will be "caught up" or "gathered" to meet the Lord in the air, and they will be changed in the twinkling of an eye into a glorified body. But, there is no trip to heaven for anyone.
Funny, this website literally says "25 verses about predestination" and there are only 4 verses that actually contain the word. Red flag.
I just can't resist this question.
None, because the word doesn't exist in the Bible. Because the concept doesn't either, at least the way it's usually understood.
Yes, all living believers will be "caught up" or "gathered" to meet the Lord in the air, and they will be changed in the twinkling of an eye into a glorified body. But, there is no trip to heaven for anyone.
And that has been my challenge. And I'm only asking for the very best and most clear verse that states this. So since you noted "verseS", there are verses from which to choose. Please share that very best one so I can see it. Thanks.
I don't know what is meant by "a continuous statement made bny God...". Could you please clarify. And as to any verse that tells us that God "determines outcomes", I'd really like to see such a verse, if you please.
Lots of presumption here. Where does "got away" come into play? And why presume that if Christ died for all, then all must be saved? That seems to be a very common view among Calvinists. I already explained how one is saved. You had an opportunity to correct any of my errors. But you didn't even address my comment.
Did it ever occur to you that that those 'given to Him by the Father' refers only to believers? And we know that Judas never believed, even though he was chosen along with the 11. John 6:70
Still a lot of presumption going on. The key that you seem to miss is that God created man with the freedom to comprehend and make choices.
That seems to shock Calvinists, but I really don't know why it should. Adam and Eve had a choice to make.
Yes, John 6:71 tells us plainly. Judas was chosen (elected) to betray Jesus.
It's really simple from a biblical perspective. Yes, Judas really did have a choice. No one forced him to do the deed. Or the Bible would have made that clear. But God in His omniscience, knew that Judas was the one who WOULD do the deed. Out of all humanity.
That is why Judas was placed WHEN and WHERE he was placed. He was placed by God. iow, God gave him the opportunity and he took it, because he was the ultimate opportunist. Acts 17:26
I don't know what is meant by "a continuous statement made bny God...". Could you please clarify. And as to any verse that tells us that God "determines outcomes", I'd really like to see such a verse, if you please.
Lots of presumption here. Where does "got away" come into play? And why presume that if Christ died for all, then all must be saved? That seems to be a very common view among Calvinists. I already explained how one is saved. You had an opportunity to correct any of my errors. But you didn't even address my comment.
Did it ever occur to you that that those 'given to Him by the Father' refers only to believers? And we know that Judas never believed, even though he was chosen along with the 11. John 6:70
Still a lot of presumption going on. The key that you seem to miss is that God created man with the freedom to comprehend and make choices.
That seems to shock Calvinists, but I really don't know why it should. Adam and Eve had a choice to make.Yes, John 6:71 tells us plainly. Judas was chosen (elected) to betray Jesus.
It's really simple from a biblical perspective. Yes, Judas really did have a choice. No one forced him to do the deed. Or the Bible would have made that clear. But God in His omniscience, knew that Judas was the one who WOULD do the deed. Out of all humanity.
That is why Judas was placed WHEN and WHERE he was placed. He was placed by God. iow, God gave him the opportunity and he took it, because he was the ultimate opportunist. Acts 17:26
Actually, no, the Bible never says that. But I missed such a verse, please share so I can adjust my thinking on this.
This is what the Bible does say:
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
It is very clear to me. God chose to save those who believe.
Yes, those who believe DO "belong to Him", but you are getting the cart in front of the horse.
God has chosen, for His own pleasure, to save those who believe.
This isn't even arguable. 1 Cor 1:21 couldn't be any more clear. Please put the cart back where it belongs.
This is what the Bible does say:
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
It is very clear to me. God chose to save those who believe.
Yes, those who believe DO "belong to Him", but you are getting the cart in front of the horse.
God has chosen, for His own pleasure, to save those who believe.
This isn't even arguable. 1 Cor 1:21 couldn't be any more clear. Please put the cart back where it belongs.
John146 said:
What's the adoption according to scripture? Is this salvation? Or the redemption of the body?
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Wow!!
You quoted a verse and the poster admitted he doesn't know what you are talking about!! And then he tops that off with "this makes absolutely no sense".
Well, that really says alot about his attitude towards Scripture. So sad.
What's the adoption according to scripture? Is this salvation? Or the redemption of the body?
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Wow!!
You quoted a verse and the poster admitted he doesn't know what you are talking about!! And then he tops that off with "this makes absolutely no sense".
Well, that really says alot about his attitude towards Scripture. So sad.
Aerials1978 said:
I don’t even know what you’re talking about. This makes absolutely no sense. Of course you believe in dispensationism so you could be aiming at anything
Given his admitted low view of Scripture, I'm not sure any explanation will help. Kinda like the saying, "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts".
I don’t even know what you’re talking about. This makes absolutely no sense. Of course you believe in dispensationism so you could be aiming at anything
Given his admitted low view of Scripture, I'm not sure any explanation will help. Kinda like the saying, "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts".
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John146 said:
The adoption is a future event. The adoption, according to scripture, is the redemption of the body.
Scripture says otherwise.
Rom 8:23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.
Black and white. John 146 nailed it!!
Yet, you just admitted you knew nothing about this and even said it makes no sense!!
The adoption is a future event. The adoption, according to scripture, is the redemption of the body.
Scripture says otherwise.
Rom 8:23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.
Black and white. John 146 nailed it!!
Yet, you just admitted you knew nothing about this and even said it makes no sense!!
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John146 said:
The adoption is a future event. The adoption, according to scripture, is the redemption of the body.
Which you have just demonstrated quite vividly!
The adoption is a future event. The adoption, according to scripture, is the redemption of the body.
Which you have just demonstrated quite vividly!
Actually, no, the Bible never says that. But I missed such a verse, please share so I can adjust my thinking on this.
This is what the Bible does say:
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
It is very clear to me. God chose to save those who believe.
Yes, those who believe DO "belong to Him", but you are getting the cart in front of the horse.
God has chosen, for His own pleasure, to save those who believe.
This isn't even arguable. 1 Cor 1:21 couldn't be any more clear. Please put the cart back where it belongs.
This is what the Bible does say:
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
It is very clear to me. God chose to save those who believe.
Yes, those who believe DO "belong to Him", but you are getting the cart in front of the horse.
God has chosen, for His own pleasure, to save those who believe.
This isn't even arguable. 1 Cor 1:21 couldn't be any more clear. Please put the cart back where it belongs.
FreeGrace2 said:
John146 said:
The adoption is a future event. The adoption, according to scripture, is the redemption of the body.
Which you have just demonstrated quite vividly!
yes, I would imagine that being corrected would be a rather obnoxious thing.
John146 said:
The adoption is a future event. The adoption, according to scripture, is the redemption of the body.
Which you have just demonstrated quite vividly!
yes, I would imagine that being corrected would be a rather obnoxious thing.
FreeGrace2 said:
Actually, no, the Bible never says that. But I missed such a verse, please share so I can adjust my thinking on this.
This is what the Bible does say:
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
It is very clear to me. God chose to save those who believe.
Yes, those who believe DO "belong to Him", but you are getting the cart in front of the horse.
God has chosen, for His own pleasure, to save those who believe.
This isn't even arguable. 1 Cor 1:21 couldn't be any more clear. Please put the cart back where it belongs.
Thanks for your opinion. However, if you think I have misunderstood 1 Cor 1:21, please advise. I'm serious.
I don't want to be wrong any more than you do! I AM assuming that you don't want to be wrong.
So, if I am, I would appreciate being corrected.
Actually, no, the Bible never says that. But I missed such a verse, please share so I can adjust my thinking on this.
This is what the Bible does say:
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
It is very clear to me. God chose to save those who believe.
Yes, those who believe DO "belong to Him", but you are getting the cart in front of the horse.
God has chosen, for His own pleasure, to save those who believe.
This isn't even arguable. 1 Cor 1:21 couldn't be any more clear. Please put the cart back where it belongs.
Thanks for your opinion. However, if you think I have misunderstood 1 Cor 1:21, please advise. I'm serious.
I don't want to be wrong any more than you do! I AM assuming that you don't want to be wrong.
So, if I am, I would appreciate being corrected.
FreeGrace2 said:
Actually, no, the Bible never says that. But I missed such a verse, please share so I can adjust my thinking on this.
This is what the Bible does say:
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
Context is important. What does verse 20 say:
It is very clear to me. God chose to save those who believe.
Yes, those who believe DO "belong to Him", but you are getting the cart in front of the horse.
God has chosen, for His own pleasure, to save those who believe.
This isn't even arguable. 1 Cor 1:21 couldn't be any more clear. Please put the cart back where it belongs.
Thanks for your opinion. However, if you think I have misunderstood 1 Cor 1:21, please advise. I'm serious.
I don't want to be wrong any more than you do! I AM assuming that you don't want to be wrong.
So, if I am, I would appreciate being corrected.
Actually, no, the Bible never says that. But I missed such a verse, please share so I can adjust my thinking on this.
This is what the Bible does say:
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
Context is important. What does verse 20 say:
It is very clear to me. God chose to save those who believe.
Yes, those who believe DO "belong to Him", but you are getting the cart in front of the horse.
God has chosen, for His own pleasure, to save those who believe.
This isn't even arguable. 1 Cor 1:21 couldn't be any more clear. Please put the cart back where it belongs.
Thanks for your opinion. However, if you think I have misunderstood 1 Cor 1:21, please advise. I'm serious.
I don't want to be wrong any more than you do! I AM assuming that you don't want to be wrong.
So, if I am, I would appreciate being corrected.
FreeGrace2 said:
Actually, no, the Bible never says that. But I missed such a verse, please share so I can adjust my thinking on this.
This is what the Bible does say:
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
It is very clear to me. God chose to save those who believe.
Yes, those who believe DO "belong to Him", but you are getting the cart in front of the horse.
God has chosen, for His own pleasure, to save those who believe.
This isn't even arguable. 1 Cor 1:21 couldn't be any more clear. Please put the cart back where it belongs.
Thanks for your opinion. However, if you think I have misunderstood 1 Cor 1:21, please advise. I'm serious.
I don't want to be wrong any more than you do! I AM assuming that you don't want to be wrong.
So, if I am, I would appreciate being corrected.
Actually, no, the Bible never says that. But I missed such a verse, please share so I can adjust my thinking on this.
This is what the Bible does say:
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
It is very clear to me. God chose to save those who believe.
Yes, those who believe DO "belong to Him", but you are getting the cart in front of the horse.
God has chosen, for His own pleasure, to save those who believe.
This isn't even arguable. 1 Cor 1:21 couldn't be any more clear. Please put the cart back where it belongs.
Thanks for your opinion. However, if you think I have misunderstood 1 Cor 1:21, please advise. I'm serious.
I don't want to be wrong any more than you do! I AM assuming that you don't want to be wrong.
So, if I am, I would appreciate being corrected.
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age?.Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
Paul is stating that human is wisdom looks down on the message of the cross and that believers hold to His truth. It’s says nothing about all around salvation. I would suggest you read to entire chapter. It helps.
It is my understanding we are already adopted adoption is a legal thing not a physical thing if you adopt a child you legally sign them into your family you don't change their body in any way you just legally sign them into your family so i am not sure where you are getting this understanding of adoption from
You have both the elect that stood with God during the rebellion of Satan in the first earth age. Then you have those that have chosen to give there lives to God. Let me stop right here and say even the elect have to make that choice but because of what they did in the stand against Satan in the first earth age God knows that they will follow Him and do the things He wants them to do. God did not send the Son to die on the cross for just a few but for how ever would chouse to follow Him. Everyone has that opportunity except for the fallen angles You can read of them in Genesis 6 and in the 1 chapter of Jude written my Jesus's half brother Jude.
Hope that helps
Hope that helps
