Election teaches that salvation comes from the Lord.

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Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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What are you talking about? ....

(I wish you did know what you were talking about)
Your last comment is what I was talking about. Connect the dots.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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What he refuses to say is the Bible shows us on 4 occasions people heard preaching and while hearing the Holy Spirit came and fell upon them and then they were saved.

Nowhere does it say the Holy Spirit comes before hearing the preaching. But the Reformed want to preach it does.

So we have the Bible that gives us 4 clear examples of hearing the Gospel and then the Holy Spirit comes or the Reformed lies that can not be found in the Bible.

And then they are offended because we don't believe their lies.

Too bad!
If it adds to the confusion?

Demons acting as a counterfeit HS will induce the carnal Christian in to thinking a dogma they can forget about reality with, and dig in to enter into an argument. Some are naturally argumentative and like a good fight.... as long as they win. That is why they get stubborn because they hate to lose...
 

Genez

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Oct 12, 2017
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That's the heart unregenerate man.
That is what many have been told to believe...

That is.. until they find out what the book of Jeremiah was dealing with..
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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What he refuses to say is the Bible shows us on 4 occasions people heard preaching and while hearing the Holy Spirit came and fell upon them and then they were saved.

Nowhere does it say the Holy Spirit comes before hearing the preaching. But the Reformed want to preach it does.

So we have the Bible that gives us 4 clear examples of hearing the Gospel and then the Holy Spirit comes or the Reformed lies that can not be found in the Bible.

And then they are offended because we don't believe their lies.

Too bad!
The falling of the Spirit is the sealing of the Spirit. That is not the same as being baptized into the body of Christ. One is inward and places us into Christ. The other is outward and is the evidence to us that the inward work has been genuinely done. One is spoken of in Ephesians 1:13. The other in 1 Corinthians 12:13.
 

Genez

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Oct 12, 2017
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The falling of the Spirit is the sealing of the Spirit. That is not the same as being baptized into the body of Christ. One is inward and places us into Christ. The other is outward and is the evidence to us that the inward work has been genuinely done. One is spoken of in Ephesians 1:13. The other in 1 Corinthians 12:13.

" Doctrine is to be like a box of chocolates."


Pastor Gump.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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The falling of the Spirit is the sealing of the Spirit. That is not the same as being baptized into the body of Christ. One is inward and places us into Christ. The other is outward and is the evidence to us that the inward work has been genuinely done. One is spoken of in Ephesians 1:13. The other in 1 Corinthians 12:13.
And it still mentions preaching and hearing first before the Holy Spirit does His thing.
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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" Doctrine is to be like a box of chocolates."

Pastor Gump.


If you notice none of those chocolates are the same. Kind of like a doctrine based upon human Reason.

Have you ever read the 100 verses they use for Tulip?
Literally, not even exaggerating here at all.
Only 20, and if that, of those verses have the literal word "GRACE" in them.
Many even come from when Old Testament Authors like the Prophets are talking about Mercy and the Reformed are using them for Grace.

It's almost like they think if we show 100 verses ain't no one going to read them and see we're full of poo.

I read them and I can testify they're definitely full of poo (y)
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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John tells us the WORD was made flesh and dwelt among us.
So the WORD is Spirit because God is Spirit and became flesh and we know Him as Jesus.
Ephesians shows us the Election of how God chose to save people from the very beginning.
So the WORD became flesh to bring salvation.
It has no meaning to who is being saved but how they are going to be saved.

Once again, if Jesus was not mentioned in these verses, how can people be saved without Jesus?
The passage also shows that Election, having been chosen in Christ before the foundation is part of Paul's Gospel message and it was heard in the Gospel they heard of him in Eph 1:13, so was being predestinated Vs 5
 

Genez

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Oct 12, 2017
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And it still mentions preaching and hearing first before the Holy Spirit does His thing.
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit

Hearing and believing... that is what seals us.

We may even be oblivious to the process as its happening.

It may take weeks to discover some "mysterious" changes going on in one's life...

When I believed in Jesus (believed while reading a tract) I still thought of myself as being Jewish.
It took ten years after that moment to finally discover why I was experiencing so many odd and mysterious things taking place.

grace and peace ..........
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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The passage also shows that Election, having been chosen in Christ before the foundation is part of Paul's Gospel message and it was heard in the Gospel they heard of him in Eph 1:13, so was being predestinated Vs 5
It just says believers are chosen to be in Jesus.

Do you even know what that means?

When you got saved didn't you get saved because Jesus Died for you?
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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Hearing and believing... that is what seals us.

We may even be oblivious to the process as its happening.

It may take weeks to discover some "mysterious" changes going on in one's life...

When I believed in Jesus (believed while reading a tract) I still thought of myself as being Jewish.
It took ten years after that moment to finally discover why I was experiencing so many odd and mysterious things taking place.

grace and peace ..........
If you think back to when you got saved and was praying you kept thinking I am sorry Jesus, forgive me Jesus, I give myself to you, come into my heart. Everyone surrenders to Jesus whether they admit it or not.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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And it still mentions preaching and hearing first before the Holy Spirit does His thing.
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit
The Spirit of promise was the seal. You see it first at Pentecost, and throughout the book of Acts after that. But that is a seal. It isn't being baptized into the body of Christ.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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The Spirit of promise was the seal. You see it first at Pentecost, and throughout the book of Acts after that. But that is a seal. It isn't being baptized into the body of Christ.
They were praying at Pentecost asking God to send what He Promised. Before going to the Upper Room Jesus said before His Ascension that He would send them the Holy Spirit. So they were expecting the Holy Spirit to come and fill them and that is what happened.
 

Cameron143

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They were praying at Pentecost asking God to send what He Promised. Before going to the Upper Room Jesus said before His Ascension that He would send them the Holy Spirit. So they were expecting the Holy Spirit to come and fill them and that is what happened.
Right. But that wasn't for salvation. Jesus already told them they were clean.
The Spirit was sent to empower them and authenticate their ministry.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Right. They believe all choices are made after the individual is born from above. Having
been regenerated, the new believer now has the ability to pursue and respond to God.
Others believe the natural man can, of himself, do so in his natural estate.

But everyone believes choices are made. The debate is whether it is before or
after God does His work. In other words, before spiritual life is given, or after.
Many believe being able to make choices = free will. But no, Cameron, that is not the point of contention I refer to, either, though it is one of them. Sure, everyone makes choices. But there are those who claim they did not have a choice. One even recently asserted that being drawn meant being forcefully dragged away while also claiming he was not forced but had no choice. There are those who believe if they or anyone chooses or accepts or receives or needs to repent and believe or any of the things Scriptures describe as attending and/or accompanying salvation you have nullified the grace and gift of God. I am aware that there are those who believe the natural man is free to choose not to sin and free to choose to believe in God though they are hostile in their minds toward Him, even though such a person is called a slave to sin. There is a wide variety of beliefs and a good deal of confusion around the issue...
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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Right. But that wasn't for salvation. Jesus already told them they were clean.
The Spirit was sent to empower them and authenticate their ministry.
But the Holy Spirit only came to them because they were already saved and saved because of Jesus, not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit just sealed them and their salvation. But it happened after they were saved not before.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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It's almost like they think if we show 100 verses ain't no one going to read them and see we're full of poo.

I read them and I can testify they're definitely full of poo (y)
Dear Winnie... You got to say out of those people!

 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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If you think back to when you got saved and was praying you kept thinking I am sorry Jesus, forgive me Jesus, I give myself to you, come into my heart. Everyone surrenders to Jesus whether they admit it or not.
I just wanted to believe. Knew I had screwed up my life and I could not straighten it out if I stopped eating bacon.
Seriously... I was painfully casual about it. No preaching. Just knew I was a sinner.

I was not expecting anything to change me. Just wanted to believe.

Then I got turned on my head ...and wondered what mysterious thing was holding on to me.
At the time I thought maybe some of the drugs I tried came back to haunt me.... But drugs do not give you insight and truths
that you know are coming from a mind more intelligent than your own.
So, I rationalized that I had become psychic.. because I had zero knowledge concerning regeneration.

Later was when it was disclosed what had taken place. Ten years later. Then my mind was peacefully boggled.
 

Genez

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Oct 12, 2017
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Calvinists freely choose to believe there is no free will.....