Encourage vs attack

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EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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#41
I think what Lucy - is saying is that if we have a disagreement on the interpretation of a scripture, we should defend our interpretation by calmly and respectfully, comparing scripture to scripture to see if our interpretation harmonizes with the other scriptures, instead of spewing out degrading names, and accusations for the purpose of belittling someone.
There is no harmonizing the doctrine of Saved is Saved (OSAS) with Conditional salvation, it does not work that way.

Scripture only presents one truth on the matter.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
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#42
Ohhh I see now...
You misunderstood me... I was saying something opposite - that sometimes people are doctrinally telling the truth, which I'd love to support, but they ruin what could have been a beautiful post with name calling and bickering, which I do not like and cannot support. And I find that a bit frustrating.
So, I was not doing people stuff I am saying I am/was doing according to my conviction in that area. Pretty sure I lost a few friends over that because things get cliquey and people divide into us vs them on certain subjects, and get angry when they do not feel supported, and I was surely declared lukewarm by some over this. But I gotta do what I gotta do.
Hmmm. My apologies. Maybe l should learn how to read?
Tell me...how did you come to the states just awhile back ...and somehow I’m behind/need to learn English a little better so l can keep up with you? 😂

Well said, btw.

Man, l just became the guy that dished the unwanted advice. 😢
Im gonna blame my phone for the tiny text thus leading to the misunderstandings?

(My dog listens to my advice, so maybe im getting a little bit over confident with the dispensing of it)
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
4,769
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#43
Amen!

I cannot understand why when as one stands up to false dogma we are angry.
It is not a personal anger against the person but against the false dogma they peddle that both diminishes Jesus and as at the same times blinds the mind of those less discerning.
My GPS, sometimes, tells me that there is a better way available. You might consider that yourself.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
4,769
706
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#44
There is no harmonizing the doctrine of Saved is Saved (OSAS) with Conditional salvation, it does not work that way.

Scripture only presents one truth on the matter.
The trouble with a lot of good intentioned people on this forum, is that they make prideful statements without using scriptures to help prove their statements.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,284
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#45
Hmmm. My apologies. Maybe l should learn how to read?
Tell me...how did you come to the states just awhile back ...and somehow I’m behind/need to learn English a little better so l can keep up with you? 😂

Well said, btw.

Man, l just became the guy that dished the unwanted advice. 😢
Im gonna blame my phone for the tiny text thus leading to the misunderstandings?

(My dog listens to my advice, so maybe im getting a little bit over confident with the dispensing of it)
We're good bro, no worries :cool:
Tiny text on phones is a major pain! I concur.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
16,655
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#46
Because attacking is the norm here. Has been for a long time. From both sides.
True but it doesn't have to be and it shouldn't be. For every person who refuses to attack responds calmly and in love even under heavy fire they are making a difference.

Everything history that was ever done in greatness that made an impact and a difference started out small and one or two people defying the norm. People attack others due to immaturity contradicting ideas and beleifs have always been a motivater of attacks not just in Christianity but only people who can battle in such things while retaining their cool have ever been able to persuade others attacks just lead to attacks.
We all see and know this and say this about the bdf but if we see and know all this but don't make an effort to change things then are we not just as guilty?

The problem is within the community we are the problem when we allow pourselves to fall into traps that cause us to respond in an unchrist like manner.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#47
I agree that we see a complete range of peculiar viewpoints here. And sometimes to me it looks like everyone is pushing their particular sect or religious dogma rather than genuinely discussing the bible. And we must be careful not to accept heresies.

But perhaps we should be more discerning and less angry?
Look, I am not angry and rarely get angry......and as a matter of fact have no issue discussing the truth with anyone, but when the allegations start flying like...

a. We believe we can live anyway we want because of believing in eternal security (from salvation losers and works salvationists)

b. We dethrone God (Calvinists)

c. We reject the bible (by ALL that change words, conflate truths, deny context)

d. When Jesus, his promises, power, his sacrifice is devalued by ALL that say he NEEDS MAN'S help to save, keep saved or top off salvation, etc...

I will, tooth and nail oppose it.

Whatsoever GOD DOES, IT IS EVERLASTING, and he DOES THIS SO MEN MAY FEAR BEFORE HIM.

this includes SAVING SOMEONE AND IT INCLUDES SENDING A MAN TO HELL for denying him (faith into Christ)
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#48
There is no harmonizing the doctrine of Saved is Saved (OSAS) with Conditional salvation, it does not work that way.

Scripture only presents one truth on the matter.
Was going through the pages and saw this and I kind of wanted to touch on it.
Now you see the idea of salvation can be lost or is eternaly secure I know is a major debated topic but the bible does not contradict itself only we do, everyone on both sides claim to be right and teaching truth but the truth brings us together it gives life

I think there is a difference in how we understand scripture and how God does, I go by the grace and love God not because I believe osas is the correct doctrine but because of the fruits I have seen in how both sides affect people.
So on one hand we have salvation can be lost, this is my experience in it and my own personal one not saying it is the truth but rather just to explain some points to think about. See I am not strong as a person I am sensative and have never had great confidence in myself I struggle severely with depression and there are many others like me, now for me to have the possibility to lose my salvation bieng the kind of perspon to constantly search my heart I begin to nit pick every thing I do wrong my sins are not ever overcome because I am to afraid of them every time I mess up I am filled with fear doubt and worry that I will lose him which is my worst fear of all

Not just for people like me but this more than anything is what I have seen in people who are told to believe that side of the argument but when we instead focus on his grace we take our focus off of ourselves off of our sins and what we need to be in order to keep our salvation it is now him our focus is on. This does create people who will take advantage of it but for the most part this is the side of the coin I have seen the most fruits produced in people joy life peace and love we draw closer to him naturally because our efforts no longer have any control or chains on us we take everything to him and just emrbace him.
Both sides have pros and cons but when you look at the fruits of the person that is how you know if they are growing in him because of their particular side they stand on or not.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#49
Your right , I mean who wants to listen to anyone with anger in their voice unless that anger has a righteousness about it as our Lord when He turned over the tables...
...xox...
yeah....or when they peddle Man A gets chosen and saved while MAN B THRU Z is outta luck and has no option even though the bible says...

God would have ALL men be saved and come to the knowledge of the TRUTH

and

Creation and the invisible TESTIFY TO ALL MEN so they are without excuse

ALL are UNDER THE LAW which points us to CHRIST

yeah.....let us have biblical ANGER when men come and peddle the blather of other men and we see them leading IMMATURE people away into error by whispering and coddling only to make a proselyte.........

Or, let us be diagusted and angered when we can plainly see scripture being skewed, twisted, word definitions changed, conflated scripture and denied scripture being used to to lead one to their own demise.....

Jesus used a whip and stronger verbiage than most have, so did JOHN, Paul, Elijah and even God's prophets HEWED men to pieces with a sword....but oh no.....in our world where people are TV educated with safe places, binkies and nappies.....we cannot use a little sarcasm, heat and or very pointed truths or the same style of JESUS and the men above listed to defend the truth.

Two things come to mind...

Wisdom is justified of her children.

It is enough that a servant be as his master.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#50
Alright, so there are a lot of folks on here who see Christians who believe in once saved always saved... and then go to the place of attacking their security in Christ, believing they are not walking the walk.

Now personally, the majority of osas proponents I know are actually very faithful.. because they are secure, because they know unconditional love from Jesus toward them.

And so.. for the believers who believe in osas and are not walking the walk...

How bout showing them what walking the walk is, rather than attacking their security in Christ?

I see eternal security as a launching pad for faithfulness, because it inspires true courage and loyalty.

Like a child adventuring confidently because they are secure in their parents love.
I absolutely love how you put it, a perfect imagery of security in Christ.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#51
Here is my personal experience with posters on this site. When I bring up a point that scripture makes it is not read as pointing to scripture but I get posts accusing me of claiming to be sinless. These accusers of me, personally, is based on my reporting scripture. I can back this up with copies of postings.

You are accusing posters of lots of things without a bit of proof and frankly I don't agree with your accusations. There are lots of genuine bible students, saintly Christians on this site. They have led me to real learning as I check what they say with scripture.
disagree all you want....I can read and when someone peddles being sinless I can know for sure they are full of it based upon all of the following WRITTEN WITH SAVED PEOPLE AND BELIEVERS ON THE PLANET

There is not a JUST MAN UPON THE EARTH THAT DOES GOOD AND SINS NOT

If we say we have no sin, we are deceived and the truth is not in us

There is none GOOD SAVE GOD

ALL HAVED SINNED

ALL MEN ARE LIARS

Where sin abounds GRACE abounds the more

Even Daniel, one of three men LISTED BY GOD THAT COULD DELIVER THEMSELVES BY THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, confessed HIS SINS

See how easy it is to refute everyone that claims to be sinless....

Like I said, DISAGREE....good for you and NOTICE WHAT YOU SAID and how YOU embellished what I said....You implied that I lumped everyone UNDER one banner, which I have not done. Show me where I said that this site has NO, GOOD, WELL EDUCATED BIBLE STUDENTS and that All are in error.

Never said it and never implied it!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#52
My GPS, sometimes, tells me that there is a better way available. You might consider that
2 things well maybe 3

Take some of your own medicine described above.

Your way, which involves skewed truth, denied truth is not a better way.

And you wonder why we sometimes rail......
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#54
Here is my personal experience with posters on this site. When I bring up a point that scripture makes it is not read as pointing to scripture but I get posts accusing me of claiming to be sinless. These accusers of me, personally, is based on my reporting scripture. I can back this up with copies of postings.

You are accusing posters of lots of things without a bit of proof and frankly I don't agree with your accusations. There are lots of genuine bible students, saintly Christians on this site. They have led me to real learning as I check what they say with scripture.
You know I think you and dcon both have valid points both are true there are plenty of people on here who not only devalue Jesus but there are also a lot of of very wise and isnightful bible teaching people as well.
I have nejoyed posts from both you and dcon and learned from both you as well but we have to understand that it isn't black and white both of what you two have said is true it is not opposing each other we see all this in forums all the time.

You also have to take a persons personality into consideration, Dcon can be a bit snarky and sarcastic and he isn't afraid of being blunt either but he is also a very well versed in understanding the scriptures and is able to give very well thought out and biblical responses

You are the same in understanding and biblical responses in my opinion but your nature contrasts his you are more gentle and understanding you have a very well mannered kind of sense about you I can easily see you shepherding weaker or less experienced believers while dcon I can easily see educating but also being on the front lines

You two are different people you have different and sometimes completely opposing views but you each have unique things to give to the church, sometimes we have to try to see the best in each other and sometimes it takes opposing natures to do what couldn't be done before.

Of course this is just what I see in you two whether it is true or not is up to you guys
 

Duskey

Well-known member
May 31, 2020
1,328
1,214
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#55
Alright, so there are a lot of folks on here who see Christians who believe in once saved always saved... and then go to the place of attacking their security in Christ, believing they are not walking the walk.

Now personally, the majority of osas proponents I know are actually very faithful.. because they are secure, because they know unconditional love from Jesus toward them.

And so.. for the believers who believe in osas and are not walking the walk...

How bout showing them what walking the walk is, rather than attacking their security in Christ?

I see eternal security as a launching pad for faithfulness, because it inspires true courage and loyalty.

Like a child adventuring confidently because they are secure in their parents love.
I get ticked off seeing pious people shutting out the Kingdom of God against others, especially when Jesus teaches us that it is God’s good pleasure to give us the Kingdom.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
16,655
1,488
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#57
I get ticked off seeing pious people shutting out the Kingdom of God against others, especially when Jesus teaches us that it is God’s good pleasure to give us the Kingdom.
Wow just wow like seriously you earned this

I don't give that to just anyone
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
28,537
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#58
How bout showing them what walking the walk is, rather than attacking their security in Christ?
i feel wrong posting anything in the Christ is God thread that is not demonstrating the deity of Christ.
i try very hard not to engage with anyone contending in there, but to simply speak the truth and speak it over and over in as many ways as i can find. the truth addresses them; i don't need to engage in bitterness but only to keep reflecting light.


why am i not so equally compelled in every thread? i should be :)

thanks wattie
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
5,254
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#59
i feel wrong posting anything in the Christ is God thread that is not demonstrating the deity of Christ.
i try very hard not to engage with anyone contending in there, but to simply speak the truth and speak it over and over in as many ways as i can find. the truth addresses them; i don't need to engage in bitterness but only to keep reflecting light.


why am i not so equally compelled in every thread? i should be :)

thanks wattie
Very true. I can't understand for the life of me why some who are overly defensive when questioned about their Seminary background or doubt they have even had one. YET display such hatred and arrogance when they claim to know the truth and others don't. > YET uses their so-called Biblical education to attack those who they feel are less understanding then they are? that is a bully and a coward. I guess they don't have the gift to teach but instead of edifying and demonstrating they have learned the word of God, they only use it to in some perverted way to impress us. So sad.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
28,537
8,886
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#60
Very true. I can't understand for the life of me why some who are overly defensive when questioned about their Seminary background or doubt they have even had one. YET display such hatred and arrogance when they claim to know the truth and others don't. > YET uses their so-called Biblical education to attack those who they feel are less understanding then they are? that is a bully and a coward. I guess they don't have the gift to teach but instead of edifying and demonstrating they have learned the word of God, they only use it to in some perverted way to impress us. So sad.

as i was reading this the first time through i was like "
i don't remember Yet doing those things.. :unsure:"

hahaha *doh*


"pay closer attention" was the voice in my ear ;)