Enoch

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
8,314
3,443
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#21
This is an interesting subject because I learned a lot asking questions about"the" book of Enoch a while back.
One thing to keep in mind is that the book of Enoch you are referring to gives a size that makes the giant lawyer look like a plastic army man; not GI Joe, but the tiny green ones.

Here's the Bible sized giants. Goliath was a great athlete as the greatest warrior and ability to handle the weapons described. He would have been stronger and more muscular than Robert Wadlow. He would not be able to look down upon the Empire state building and flick King Kong off like a mosquito. Those giants never existed. The fake photoshopped pictures that are still out there don't get it right.

This kind still exists.
Robert Wadlow footage:

 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#22
I would take it one step further and say that this Paul Wallis video-guy is anti-God. He suggests that God (Yahweh) is not eternal but is merely a highly intelligent alien. He mocks the idea of eternal Heaven and Hell in some of His other videos.

I am not saying that we should not discuss this book of Enoch. I'm just asserting that Paul Wallis may not be a valuable resource.
I generally research a persom before i listen to the things they have to say about anything of importance. I never listen folks with sketchy ideas
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,810
5,150
113
#23
interesting the book of Jude refers to a quotation from the book of Enoch! in the statement about the arch angel Michael when disputing over the body of Moses with Satan said the LORD rebuke
has anyone ever wondered if Enoch was translated , which the Bible says he was , how then did Enoch write a book on earth ?

is there any record of Enoch after his translation into the kingdom ?

“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for

before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

how would Enoch then write a book on earth when it’s contents claim to be a record of what Enoch saw after his translation from the earthly to the heavenly the heavenly ?

We know Enoch didn’t return because only Jesus descended

“If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:12-13‬ ‭

it’s odd to at Enoch wrote a book after being translated never returned but we somehow have a genuine accounting of what happened after he left earth ?

another issue is the Bible begins with Moses being told the account on the Mount by God during the fourty day period he was on Sinai

Moses is where scriptire begins he’s told the accounts of Abraham Isaac and Jacob when he’s chosen.

there’s really no record of any scriptire before Moses writings which is what is always refered to like this

“whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


there’s never an accounting of anything in scripture being written down before Moses

the Latter Day Saints trust Enoch , the book of Abraham the pearl of great price “ book of Moses “ ect pretty much accepting anything claiming to be a biblical book should be thoroughly compared to the scriptire that began with Moses and ended with John

when we do that you find the at the biblical scripture is all cohesive it always confirms otself consistently

Enoch’s books don’t flow on the same way and contradict scripture several times over

it’s true that Jude and also Peter quoted verses that are found in one of Enoch’s scrolls the introciction of this scroll the oldest known is about 200-250 bc

before that there’s never any reference or confirmation that it ever existed. It seems to have come forth after the cursing of israel when he left off communicating with thier false prophets after he told them he was going to Make them blind and deaf
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,994
8,695
113
#24
Interesting that Enoch is involved with 2 of the earliest human prophecies of the Bible.

The passage in Jude is attributed to him, but also the naming of his son. Methuselah, which means "his death shall bring".
The year Methuselah died the Flood came. Really shows God's grace, in that He waited for the oldest human ever to have lived before bringing judgement and destruction.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,059
5,417
113
62
#25
Interesting that Enoch is involved with 2 of the earliest human prophecies of the Bible.

The passage in Jude is attributed to him, but also the naming of his son. Methuselah, which means "his death shall bring".
The year Methuselah died the Flood came. Really shows God's grace, in that He waited for the oldest human ever to have lived before bringing judgement and destruction.
Methuselah is the oldest recorded but some could have lived to be older, even more than a 1,000 years.
And is there a reference biblically that Enoch is the father of Methuselah? I thought his lineage was unknown.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,994
8,695
113
#27
Methuselah is the oldest recorded but some could have lived to be older, even more than a 1,000 years.
And is there a reference biblically that Enoch is the father of Methuselah? I thought his lineage was unknown.
Genesis 5
21 Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah.

No one lived past 1000 yrs.

Genesis 2:16-17
New King James Version
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

From God’s perspective, Adam did die on the day he ate of the tree of knowledge.

Psalm 90:4
New King James Version
4 For a thousand years in Your sight
Are like yesterday when it is past,
And like a watch in the night.


2 Peter 3:8
New King James Version
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,059
5,417
113
62
#28
Genesis 5
21 Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah.

No one lived past 1000 yrs.

Genesis 2:16-17
New King James Version
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

From God’s perspective, Adam did die on the day he ate of the tree of knowledge.

Psalm 90:4
New King James Version
4 For a thousand years in Your sight
Are like yesterday when it is past,
And like a watch in the night.


2 Peter 3:8
New King James Version
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Appreciate your response. Thanks.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,601
13,017
113
#29
Speaking of Moses, if the Israelites had stayed in Egypt at the end, then they would have had two Kings, an Egyptian king a secular king and a Lord God, so the Israelites had to leave Egypt and Moses couldn't enter the Promised Land for the same reason, for Israel at that time, there could only be one king, and that was God himself.
This is all pure speculation.

As to the book of Enoch, although it is quoted by Jude, it was never included in the Hebrew canon. Which means that it was not inspired. It is believed to be pseudepigraphic (someone other than Enoch himself being the writer). However it does confirm the biblical account of evil angels cohabiting with human women and producing gigantic offspring and men of renown (not to mention the evil and wickedness introduced on earth).
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,865
1,567
113
#30

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,273
26,323
113
#31
No one knows for sure who wrote the book of He brews, but it is scripture.
Despite being clearly well-known during the development of the Hebrew Bible canon, 1 Enoch was excluded from
both the Tanakh’s formal canon and the Septuagint’s typical canon, and thus from the Deuterocanon’s writings.


Of the Apocrypha, Josephus says: “We do not possess myriads of inconsistent books, conflicting with each other.
Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty [the equivalent of the 39 books of the
Hebrew Scriptures according to modern division], and contain the record of all time.”
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,865
1,567
113
#32
Despite being clearly well-known during the development of the Hebrew Bible canon, 1 Enoch was excluded from
both the Tanakh’s formal canon and the Septuagint’s typical canon, and thus from the Deuterocanon’s writings.


Of the Apocrypha, Josephus says: “We do not possess myriads of inconsistent books, conflicting with each other.
Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty [the equivalent of the 39 books of the
Hebrew Scriptures according to modern division], and contain the record of all time.”

They left the New Testament books out too because they didnt see them as inspired?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,273
26,323
113
#33
They left the New Testament books out too because they didnt see them as inspired?
Good morning, So and So :) That is a whole different subject. This thread is about Enoch/the
book(s) of Enoch. Perhaps you could start a separate thread about what you have brought up.


Historically, the book of Enoch was not considered inspired, and Christians should be aware of this FACT.

There is a lot that could be said about this, perhaps far too much to comprehensively encapsulate in one post.

Consider this: Enoch the person would have been quoted for centuries before
the book of Enoch was even written. That's how oral traditions work ;)


During New Testament times, without argument or qualification, a commonly understood body
of books was in existence which the Jews recognized to be the sacred and authorized Scriptures.
Enoch was not counted among them. I realize some believe it to be inspired for a number of reasons,
perhaps simply because fragments of the books (yes, plural) of Enoch were found with the Dead Sea Scrolls.
However, the Dead Sea Scrolls contain all kinds of documents, not just Scripture. For instance, calendars,
commentaries, songbooks, community regulations, and/or historical documents unearthed at Qumran should
also not be considered to be part of the Bible. The Qumran library was much more than just Biblical manuscripts.


I am off to work for the day, and I hope you have a good one :D
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,865
1,567
113
#35
Good morning, So and So :) That is a whole different subject. This thread is about Enoch/the
book(s) of Enoch. Perhaps you could start a separate thread about what you have brought up.


Historically, the book of Enoch was not considered inspired, and Christians should be aware of this FACT.

There is a lot that could be said about this, perhaps far too much to comprehensively encapsulate in one post.

Consider this: Enoch the person would have been quoted for centuries before
the book of Enoch was even written. That's how oral traditions work ;)


During New Testament times, without argument or qualification, a commonly understood body
of books was in existence which the Jews recognized to be the sacred and authorized Scriptures.
Enoch was not counted among them. I realize some believe it to be inspired for a number of reasons,
perhaps simply because fragments of the books (yes, plural) of Enoch were found with the Dead Sea Scrolls.
However, the Dead Sea Scrolls contain all kinds of documents, not just Scripture. For instance, calendars,
commentaries, songbooks, community regulations, and/or historical documents unearthed at Qumran should
also not be considered to be part of the Bible. The Qumran library was much more than just Biblical manuscripts.


I am off to work for the day, and I hope you have a good one :D
good morning,,,

It's the part where you say "which the Jews recognized to be sacred and and authorized Scripture..." that makes me think they cant be used as a measuring stick. After all they rejected Jesus as the Messiah and every book we see as Scripture in Christianity.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,273
26,323
113
#36
good morning,,,

It's the part where you say "which the Jews recognized to be sacred and and authorized Scripture..." that makes me think they cant be used as a measuring stick. After all they rejected Jesus as the Messiah and every book we see as Scripture in Christianity.
"They" did not reject every book we see as Scripture in Christianity.

Historically the books considered inspired did not include Enoch.

Neither was the book of Enoch considered Scripture by the Early Church.

Those who say it was removed are deceived/confused. It was added.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,865
1,567
113
#39
"They" did not reject every book we see as Scripture in Christianity.

Historically the books considered inspired did not include Enoch.

Neither was the book of Enoch considered Scripture by the Early Church.

Those who say it was removed are deceived/confused. It was added.

I was meaning the NT because in the NT it states in multiple places that the Jews were "blinded in part"(or other wordings with similar meaning) so according to the NT the Jews would not have recognized it anyway? Many of the early Church fathers mentioned it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reception_of_the_book_of_Enoch_before_modern_times
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,865
1,567
113
#40
Has anyone here actually read the Books of Enoch?

lol, yes it makes me wonder the same thing following along with the different threads about the books of Enoch. It always makes me wonder about it because these type threads always debate the validity of the book and never discuss the contents of the book(s). I am always in hopes one day someone with a good amount of knowledge of Hebrew/Aramaic type languages would just simply begin at 1 Enoch verse 1 and begin discussing it in depth. Another thing that makes me curious is the eschatological positions people may be considering when pondering it because it makes me wonder if that may be part of the rejection/reception viewpoint(1 Enoch to me seems post tribulation,pre millennial similar to Chiliasm ect.)...

back later tonight...