Enoch

[HealthAndHappiness]

Has anyone here actually read the Books of Enoch?

It is interesting in places, but the Lord never spoke to me through it as He does when I pick up my Bible. Do you know what I mean? I have read the book of Mormon....nothing.
I read the Quran......nothing.
I have read many books that claim to be inspired, but the Spirit of God doesn't bear witness with my spirit that they are His Word.
When I read a Psalm in a minute, it will likely bring a tear to my eye. I will probably be reminded of a related verse or two and truly encouraged by God's power.
When I read the apocryphal books, or any others, that doesn't happen.

 

[oyster67]

It is interesting in places, but the Lord never spoke to me through it as He does when I pick up my Bible. Do you know what I mean?

Did it anywhere seem blasphemous or heretical? Inspired of Satan or dangerous?

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Did it anywhere seem blasphemous or heretical? Inspired of Satan or dangerous?

You must be speaking about the book of Enoch. It depends on which book of Enoch.
I don't recall that if we are talking about the one that states that the Giants were "3,000 ells". I would have to go back and read it again. However, one of the books of Enoch that a pagan asked me to read, there are at least 3, was definitely a blasphemous work of fiction. I didn't read far before I handed it back to him and told the pagan what I thought of it.

 

[Edify]

Let's not forget that Paul quoted other people, including Greeks, but that didn't guarantee their writings to be Spirit-breathed.
Neither should we forget there's no proof that the book that Jude quoted & the one we're discussing are one & the same.

 

[Magenta]

I was meaning the NT because in the NT it states in multiple places that the Jews were "blinded in part"(or other wordings with similar meaning) so according to the NT the Jews would not have recognized it anyway? Many of the early Church fathers mentioned it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reception_of_the_book_of_Enoch_before_modern_times

Mentioning something does not make it inspired

 

[iamsoandso]

Mentioning something does not make it inspired

I agree,,, if so then even Josephus coins the phrase "for the tradition is.." when speaking of those angels in Antiquities of the Jews. He seems to have held the same position as those of whom he is referring to(the Jews) and their traditions of those angels in context of giants. At some point in time though there seems to have been a shift of thinking on this on their part like you mentioned about LXX and the Tanakh,,,,At the same time though Josephus wrote his writings after those in time and still he states that it was their tradition and so it appears as if there were a multitude that believed this among both those Jews and the Christians.

Not that I'm arguing that 1Enoch is a valid, inspired book or not just that there is also historical records that state that in their traditions they seemed to adhere to this thinking and around that time-frame shifted away from it. It still begs the question to me though as to why so many seem to see 1Enoch as if it might make or break their eschatological positions as if it would prove or disprove one of the common camps? I suppose if an preterit it may do quite an amount of damage or if one was Mid Acts Dispensationalist it would damage them. 1Enoch though begins speaking about an upcoming destruction(the flood) but then begins to mention places,nations that existed after the flood. Anyway though it always makes me wonder just what someone would do with 1Enoch if they could prove or disprove it's inspiration(whats the payoff)? https://www.israel-a-history-of.com/flavius-josephus.html

 

[Magenta]

I agree,,, if so then even Josephus coins the phrase "for the tradition is.." when speaking of those angels in Antiquities of the Jews. He seems to have held the same position as those of whom he is referring to(the Jews) and their traditions of those angels in context of giants. At some point in time though there seems to have been a shift of thinking on this on their part like you mentioned about LXX and the Tanakh,,,,At the same time though Josephus wrote his writings after those in time and still he states that it was their tradition and so it appears as if there were a multitude that believed this among both those Jews and the Christians.

Not that I'm arguing that 1Enoch is a valid, inspired book or not just that there is also historical records that state that in their traditions they seemed to adhere to this thinking and around that time-frame shifted away from it. It still begs the question to me though as to why so many seem to see 1Enoch as if it might make or break their eschatological positions as if it would prove or disprove one of the common camps? I suppose if an preterit it may do quite an amount of damage or if one was Mid Acts Dispensationalist it would damage them. 1Enoch though begins speaking about an upcoming destruction(the flood) but then begins to mention places,nations that existed after the flood. Anyway though it always makes me wonder just what someone would do with 1Enoch if they could prove or disprove it's inspiration(whats the payoff)? https://www.israel-a-history-of.com/flavius-josephus.html

Of the Apocrypha, Josephus says: “We do not possess myriads of inconsistent books, conflicting with each other.
Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty [the equivalent of the 39 books of the
Hebrew Scriptures according to modern division], and contain the record of all time.” That excludes Enoch

 

[iamsoandso]

Of the Apocrypha, Josephus says: “We do not possess myriads of inconsistent books, conflicting with each other.
Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty [the equivalent of the 39 books of the
Hebrew Scriptures according to modern division], and contain the record of all time.” That excludes Enoch

You still seem as if you think I'm trying to validate 1Enoch as Scripture?

 

[Magenta]

You still seem as if you think I'm trying to validate 1Enoch as Scripture?

I do understand what you are saying, but am posting for the benefit of others as well

The Old Testament has 39 books of which the Apostles and the Early Church Fathers quoted and firmly believed.
The Early Church held to a high view of the Old Testament, unlike those who, later in church history, did not. source

 

[Amosathar]

If the book of enoch is not the inspired Word of God. If it was then it would be canon, not part of the apocrypha. Just as God inspired those who wrote the different books of the Bible, he inspired those who decided what was canon. The 66 books included in the main Bible, is the books God wanted us to have. To doubt that, is to doubt the power and sovereignty of God. As interesting as the things are that you can find in the books that make up the apocrypha, they aren't canon or the inspired Word of God and should not be given the same weight and trust as the main 66 books of the Bible.

I read a commentary once that put forward the idea that a possible reason that Jude quotes from the book of enoch, even though it is not considered an inspired work is because, the people he was in conversation and disagreement with held it in such high esteem and may of used it as a favourite book to quote from, so he is citing the same book in an ironic way to bring them back on their own heads and turned the text and meaning of the book around and used it to indict the very pride that was using them.

We see Paul did the same thing when he quoted the poets in Acts 17 from the pagan authors. He reached into sources that he didn’t believe were inspired, saw something that was written there, drew it out, used it in a Christian way, and turned it back, as it were, on those he was conversing with in Athens.

 

[iamsoandso]

I do understand what you are saying, but am posting for the benefit of others as well

My curiosity in this and the other threads over the books of Enoch is "what exactly would they gain that would further their position in eschatology/theology?",,,,1Enoch follows a pattern based on the "traditions"(not books) of those days(things they believed and were taught back then)... It's clear from historical writings and letters from the early Church that they had passed those traditions down through time. As for Josephus he was the son of a priest,a pharisee, of the priestly order of Jehoiarib https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehoiarib https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus ,,,and he believed and was taught this https://www.israel-a-history-of.com/flavius-josephus.html

 

[Magenta]

My curiosity in this and the other threads over the books of Enoch is "what exactly would they gain that would further their position in eschatology/theology?",,,,1Enoch follows a pattern based on the "traditions"(not books) of those days(things they believed and were taught back then)... It's clear from historical writings and letters from the early Church that they had passed those traditions down through time. As for Josephus he was the son of a priest,a pharisee, of the priestly order of Jehoiarib https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehoiarib https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus ,,,and he believed and was taught this https://www.israel-a-history-of.com/flavius-josephus.html

That is a good question! What seems to be highlighted for me is that these traditions of men that
were acknowledged as not being from an inspired source are today being passed off as being
inspired by people who claim that knowing history is important. The line has become so blurred
between the traditions of men and inspired Scripture, that some cannot tell one from the other.

 

[soberxp]

This is similar to the way Christians mock Jews for not recognizing the Messiah, when Christians themselves are not recognizing God?How you measure others, God will measure you the same way.Be able to understand.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I'm sure it must have been. Very few know Hebrew or Aramaic.

No brother I’m asking if Enoch eas translated from earth is my point he was taken away so how should he wrote a book on earth accounting what happened after ?

“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him:

for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

im not asking about language translation brother but making the point that Enoch was no longer found on earth after he the man was translated into the heavenly with God

“and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I’m saying is how did Enoch wrote a book on earth after he was taken away from earth being translated from flesh and earth like we’re going to be and already have a promise of the spirit

“who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Amy point was how does Enoch wrote a book on earth claiming to be after he was translated and taken from the earth ?

to assume Enoch is legitimate , we would have to create a whole idea about how he secretly returned to earth and wrote a book then was taken away again yet Jesus said no one has ever came down from heaven but him

We would have to assume and make a lot of conjecture to even begin to try to establish any credibility to the books claiming partially to be written by him

another point is the history of Israel’s relationship with God began to be written by Moses that’s where scriptire begins when Moses was taken up to the Mount and God told him about what had already happened before and he wrote it down

Amy point there would be we have no record whatsoever of my scripture being written before this is all the Bible not a single reference of anything but the law and prophets beginning with Moses writings

as other issue would be the flood , the only possibility for a book wrotten by Enoch to not be destroyed( who was already taken from earth long before ) would be if Noah had possessed it in the ark but again we have no inkling that Noah was told to preserve any writings we have detailed accounts of other things he was told to preserve but not any wrotten word of God or any writings

Which we understand on the new testsment how important which Gods word is to him and moreso to us

to me ( just my own opinion others are very free to have thiers also ) but to me enoch has many many issues as To it’s credibility.

a couple quotes from Enoch in the Bible can actually be found in other manuscripts from around 400 bc about 150 years before Enoch appears on the record

a there’s also the vast contradictions in the book itself in what it says that contradicts many clear biblical
Points. For me it would require me to believe Enoch over the Bible to make it authentic because of those several contradictions

On an unconnected point you know how Enoch was translated and never saw death ? But he walked with God and didn’t die but was taken by God from earth ????

thats what’s promised to Christian’s who walk with god in his spirit

He walked with God

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Enoch did this walked with God and lived and never died but was taken into Gods presence by the spirit

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:6, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

enoch left earth and became present with the lord

that spirit we walk in and by and after is going to translate us at death of our body so it won’t touch us we’re going to be translated into spirit in the image of God whomis a spirit

“it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Like Enoch we aren’t going to see death of we do this

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and accept this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

awe also have a better home waiting and death is not for us but for the shell we live in

 

[oyster67]

No brother I’m asking if Enoch eas translated from earth is my point he was taken away so how should he wrote a book on earth accounting what happened after ?

“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him:

for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

im not asking about language translation brother but making the point that Enoch was no longer found on earth after he the man was translated into the heavenly with God

“and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I’m saying is how did Enoch wrote a book on earth after he was taken away from earth being translated from flesh and earth like we’re going to be and already have a promise of the spirit

“who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Amy point was how does Enoch wrote a book on earth claiming to be after he was translated and taken from the earth ?

to assume Enoch is legitimate , we would have to create a whole idea about how he secretly returned to earth and wrote a book then was taken away again yet Jesus said no one has ever came down from heaven but him

We would have to assume and make a lot of conjecture to even begin to try to establish any credibility to the books claiming partially to be written by him

another point is the history of Israel’s relationship with God began to be written by Moses that’s where scriptire begins when Moses was taken up to the Mount and God told him about what had already happened before and he wrote it down

Amy point there would be we have no record whatsoever of my scripture being written before this is all the Bible not a single reference of anything but the law and prophets beginning with Moses writings

as other issue would be the flood , the only possibility for a book wrotten by Enoch to not be destroyed( who was already taken from earth long before ) would be if Noah had possessed it in the ark but again we have no inkling that Noah was told to preserve any writings we have detailed accounts of other things he was told to preserve but not any wrotten word of God or any writings

Which we understand on the new testsment how important which Gods word is to him and moreso to us

to me ( just my own opinion others are very free to have thiers also ) but to me enoch has many many issues as To it’s credibility.

a couple quotes from Enoch in the Bible can actually be found in other manuscripts from around 400 bc about 150 years before Enoch appears on the record

a there’s also the vast contradictions in the book itself in what it says that contradicts many clear biblical
Points. For me it would require me to believe Enoch over the Bible to make it authentic because of those several contradictions

On an unconnected point you know how Enoch was translated and never saw death ? But he walked with God and didn’t die but was taken by God from earth ????

thats what’s promised to Christian’s who walk with god in his spirit

He walked with God

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Enoch did this walked with God and lived and never died but was taken into Gods presence by the spirit

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:6, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

enoch left earth and became present with the lord

that spirit we walk in and by and after is going to translate us at death of our body so it won’t touch us we’re going to be translated into spirit in the image of God whomis a spirit

“it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Like Enoch we aren’t going to see death of we do this

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and accept this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

awe also have a better home waiting and death is not for us but for the shell we live in

Enoch states that he was instructed to write down and teach Methuselah all these things before he was translated. Much of this was prophecy of things yet to come.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Enoch states that he was instructed to write down and teach Methuselah all these things before he was translated. Much of this was prophecy of things yet to come.

so he wrote his book about what happened after he was translated before it happened ?

Enoch 1 chapter 5 v 7

“And for all of you sinners there shall be no salvation”

The gospel

“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:15‬ ‭

Enoch 1

“And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters.


2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.”

So angels who are heavenly beings spiritual beings now have decided to physically breed with human women ? And 😇 then thier children 😀🙂😄

“ And all the others ( angels ) together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants.

2. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: 3. Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, 4. the giants turned against them and devoured mankind.

5. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. 6. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless one”


Of course these evil angels driven by lust are only going to choose one woman to “ marry” and defile

a and they the angels of course know all about plants and taught them voodoo and everything

and 😄😄 these normal human beautiful women gave birth to 400 foot giants because of the angelic “ dna “ which their giant hybrid angel Men children who for some reason became giants and ate all the food and there was no more food for anyone

And then The giants children are all of mankind because they already are all food then of course they began to eat all the birds and sin against the animals and eat one another after hat then finally the earth condemns those evil wicked giant angel Men who have eaten mankind

Then those angels teach mankind who’s already been eaten by the giant man angels babies how to be wicked understand not like the Bible says man didn’t get deceived by Satan and eat e forbidden fruit no no instead these angels corrupted mankind and the giant babies all creation

“And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals 〈of the earth〉 and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. 2. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways”

“And they have gone to the daughters of men upon the earth, and have slept with the women, and have defiled themselves, and revealed to them all kinds of sins. 9. And the women have borne giants, and the whole earth has thereby been filled with blood and unrighteousness.

10. And now, behold, the souls of those who have died are crying and making their suit to the gates of heaven, and their lamentations have ascended: and cannot cease because of the lawless deeds which are wrought on the earth. 11. And Thou knowest all things before they come to pass, and”

Now the dead who were eaten and slaughtered by the giants and taught how to sin by these evil
Angels are cl planning about earth and these four good angels now go tell God what’s happening because of course he didn’t know .

brother simply now consider the rest of the Bible you know well.

This is what corrupted man

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4-6,KJV‬‬

Consider biblically the scripture always goes back to what’s in genesis and what Satan deceived man to do and what man chose to do having Gods word and then satans contrary word

“Don’t do it you’ll die for certain “ says god

“it won’t hurt you he knows it’s good for you “ said Satan

man went with satans word and was cursed because of that not what Enoch is saying brought a curse but what mankind did

“And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again why wouldn’t God blame these corrupt angels like Enoch ? God says this before the flood

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6, 11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

why would he tell Moses this and blame man? “ It’s the angels and giants fault says Enoch , “no its mankind’s fault for not obeying the lords word like he forewarned them “ says genesis God lays the blame on mankind not angels he doesn’t even mention angels having any hand in bringing all this wickedness in but blames the mind and heart of
Man and Satan is blamed for deceiving them into eating the forbidden knowledge which is where they actually learned to be wicked at heart and mind and angels actually didn’t come teach them all before thy giants ate then all


If you look closely brother you’ll see it’s a very unbiblical book an interesting read but contradicts too much of the Bible for me personally I don’t think it really matters much if we believe Enoch though it’s not if ing to damn us but it’s also going to confuse us about Gods word and what ac try ally happened and why it actually happened and finally who’s actually to blame and needs to repent

 

[oyster67]

so he wrote his book about what happened after he was translated before it happened ?

That is precisely how prophecy works.

 

[oyster67]

Enoch 1

“And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters.


2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.”

So angels who are heavenly beings spiritual beings now have decided to physically breed with human women ? And 😇 then thier children 😀🙂😄

“ And all the others ( angels ) together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants.

2. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: 3. Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, 4. the giants turned against them and devoured mankind.

5. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. 6. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless one”

Please read Genesis 6.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That is precisely how prophecy works.

a yeah for sure prophets chosen by God that wrote legitimate bi loval
Scriptire for sure that’s exactly how it works it’s why we have the law of Moses ( where scripture began ) and the prophets who came after him

“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭

All the references begin with the law written by Moses who wrote genesis Gods accounting of the beginning and what happened to cause man to fall

a would you say that happened because Satan deceived them and they ate the fruit of the forbidden knowledge of good and evil ?

and is that what made us sinners ? So is the knowledge of good and evil the cause for this and the reason we sin at all or did these mysterious enovh angels come down from heaven have sex with human physical Beings who ate everything even mankind because they were so hungry and that’s why God cursed the earth ?

is this our sin issue ? Caused by the forbidden knowledge of good and evil ?


“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

did angels cause That or did man break this commandment and cause it ?

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is that how the knowledge of good and evil became present with us creating the law of sin in the flesh ? Or does Enoch’s story tell us what happened notice in Enoch there’s no mention of mankind hearing the commandment or disobeying it being cast out of Gods presence and god sayong “ man corrupted the earth and now I repent for creating man on the earth because they filled my creation with violence “


All I’m saying dear brother is Enoch is laying a whole different narrative down from what God told Moses , what genesis says happened you can hesr in the message throughout the Bible.

but what Enoch said happened there’s nothing to support but for obscure verses and quotes from Jude and Peter which again we’re already in Jewish manuscripts about 400 bc 150 years before any record of Enoch being written or even existing those same quotes in other books written before any record of Enoch’s books existing

It would be relatively easy to read the Bible and create your own fictional book about someone back then and this book appeared on record during an apostate time in Jerusalem after God blinded and made then deaf and cursed Israel’s prophets for thier lies about him


If you carefully read through his books you’ll see it too because you know biblical scripture well.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Please read Genesis 6.

yeah I have several times

a you know those “ giants “ they were men of great renown not four hundred foot giants an an Eating spree .

“There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that,

when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men,

and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The children born werent giant creatures eating anyone lol they were mighty Men of giant renown ancient men who lived a thousand years

You’re of course saying sons of god are angels ? But the children are hiers of God that’s mankind alone

“being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son?

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, And his ministers a flame of fire.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:4-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Hebrews is making the point no angel has ever been called gods son , that’s reserved for mankind from this point

“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭

The angels were never Gods children but his ministers sent to minister to man who the only hiers to God

“But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

from th very start God identified his children not angels but mankind those made in his image d given dominion upon earth notice here the division of creation notice angels have no rule in earth we realm only God and man

“The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's:

But the earth hath he given to the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭115:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a notice how angels have no inheritance ? Man inherits earth Gods home is the heavens angels are not and never were the sons of God to try to use this verse as proof angels slept with women gain is faulty it’s claiming angels are the sins of God which clearly they are not

“the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, “

thats not saying angels came and slept with women it’s saying men from Seth’s line gods sons who called on his name in those days , mated with adams children who were cast out of the fold beforehand for his murder

it was still forbidden under the law of Moses for Gods people to marry gentile people no different than the line not meant to be marrying cains line

a people read Enoch and then it confuses them because they read “the sons of God went to the daughters of men “

and because they read Enoch they make the sons of God into angels who recommend clearly I hope you read there what Hebrew is explaining about the difference in man and angels

a Jesus became a man that’s what made him the son , because we mankind are gods children he didn’t become an angel because angels aren’t the children man is

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; ( that’s why he became a man ) that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; (because they aren’t Gods children or his hiers )

but he took on him the seed of Abraham.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Because mankind is the children of God

surely you can acknowledge that part ? The sons of God are men right ? And angels are spiritual ministers sent to minister to mankind , right ?

somehat that doesn’t say in genesis 6 is that angels slept with women and created giants that ate all food and animals and mankind like Enoch says

Was Noah and his family the only ones not eaten by thier giant children ? If they are all the food why didn’t everyone starve ? And if everyone starved how was Noah able to build a boat and store it with supplies and animals if all the giants which apparently existed also after the flood ???

If we twist it into genesis it does t hold water brother of God was upset because some giant angel babies were destroying everything why wouldnt just strike them down ? Surely he could speak a word and th y would crumble right ? So if he was so irate with these giants why not just destroy them like soddom and Gomorrah ?

at he while story requires nothing but constant conjecture and doesn’t fit into what the Bible already says is my own issue but anyways brother it’s always a pleasure to speak and like I was saying everyone’s free to investigate and come to thier conclusion

i think I read it forst in the late sixties or early seventies and for a very long time I also swore by it being true but as I’ve learned what to Bible says about the same course of events , what the Bible says about mankind being the sons of god and angels never being called his sons

Over the years I realized it’s actually wuote in biblical just on its premise and much of what it says happened to cause mans fall

abut again there was a time I would have completely agreed with passion with your take so please don’t misunderstand it just doesn’t fit in my own belief