Essential Christian confessions. "The Augsburg Confessions".

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Jun 20, 2022
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#81
John 3:16-17
16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17 God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him.

look at Verse 17. if the WORLD here is nature [trees, rocks, water, animals, oxygen, etc] this Verse makes no sense because none of these things can SIN!

you cannot CONDEMN something that is SINLESS!

so who is full of SIN here?

HUMANITY!

Humanity can be condemned because they are full of SIN!

what doe Verse 16 show us?

16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

[[((that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.))]]

that is FREE WILL!
 
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Polar

Guest
#82
Why do you care what a pastor wears? Ours at our church wears a cope with the alb and stole. I have seen some just wear a black suit with the white collar. Also our elders wear either an alb or cassock and so do the acolytes. They are simply the clothes of a servant. Our confession does bot require any of the traditional attire. Why do you not take our word for what we are doing? It doesnt affect you. We dont have priests. We have pastors and elders. The pastor oversees the whole church the elders care for the assigned duties for the pastor.
Jeans anyone? I mean God looks on the heart, right? Clean jeans though of course.
 
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Polar

Guest
#83
Lutheran's are big on "confessions." I've heard them say there's not a single thing in their confessions that don't come straight form the Bible. If that's the case, why not cut out the middle man and go straight to the source? I'll tell you why: Because men think they know better than God.

I'm a firm believer in the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Confessions create unnecessary mazes.
While I do not 'confess' the 'confessions', much of the NT was written to counter error...such as Gnosticism. I'm a firm believer in truth and sometimes that takes some straightening out. It's not about a middle man especially since we know that no one come to the Father except by His own Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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#85
I sometimes wear jeans to church. Usually black but some times blue.
why do you feel, other than traditional, that if a Pastor wears a covering it is more important than one wearing a suit or jeans and polo?
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
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#86
why do you feel, other than traditional, that if a Pastor wears a covering it is more important than one wearing a suit or jeans and polo?
Not sure what you're trying to get to here, but my statement about the suit is simply to say that what ever someone wears it can be criticized.
As far as to why I like the vestments; there are a few reasons. I like the ceremonial atmosphere, I like the artistry, I like that pastors and elders are easily distinguished so visitors and new comers know who to ask for help or to approach with questions. I like the symbolism. Among other reasons.
 
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#87
Not sure what you're trying to get to here, but my statement about the suit is simply to say that what ever someone wears it can be criticized.
As far as to why I like the vestments; there are a few reasons. I like the ceremonial atmosphere, I like the artistry, I like that pastors and elders are easily distinguished so visitors and new comers know who to ask for help or to approach with questions. I like the symbolism. Among other reasons.
you as in yourself just like the atmosphere based upon this view. i can understand that. but at least you're not claiming you think it makes one more holier than the other (y)
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
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#88
you as in yourself just like the atmosphere based upon this view. i can understand that. but at least you're not claiming you think it makes one more holier than the other (y)
Because it dont. Wearing vestments or even being pastor dont make you more Holy.
 

awelight

Well-known member
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#90
He was given all of us.
you just deny the fact that the majority have denied Him.
you have removed Free Will to benefit a Demonic Doctrine.
enjoy!
Actually, Christ came and died for the Elect. (John 10:11, 15) For starters.

I am not bothered by the number of those who do not believe - I am bothered by the number that say they are Christians. According to the last survey, one-third of the world claim to be Christians. This would seem to fly in the face of all the Bible historical accounts. When God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, there were only two saved. When He destroyed the world, in a flood, only eight were saved. After Christ's ministry, there were only a few hundred saved. After Pentecost, there were a few thousand. A few thousand, out of all the lands of the Jews and with the direct - unadulterated - teaching of Christ. Now, one third of the world. Probably not.

I didn't remove anything to do with free will. The Word of God did. It clearly states that God accomplishes His purpose and that God does as He wills and that God does all His good pleasure. I didn't say these things, God said them. God is Sovereign over all things. Therefore, if God is Sovereign, then man is not. There cannot be two whom are sovereign. So, if it's God's will that is sovereign, then man's will is subjugated to it and cannot be free. However, man's will has nothing to do with his Fallen inability. (As explained earlier.)

Man will not desire that which is contrary to his nature. Therefore, man's will is enslaved to his nature. God must alter that nature before a man will desire God. Having been freed from that which enslaved him, he will, out of the new nature, choose God and His Christ. This is not a demonic doctrine. It is simple fact, right from the Words of God and the use of common logic.
 
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#91
Actually, Christ came and died for the Elect. (John 10:11, 15) For starters.

I am not bothered by the number of those who do not believe - I am bothered by the number that say they are Christians. According to the last survey, one-third of the world claim to be Christians. This would seem to fly in the face of all the Bible historical accounts. When God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, there were only two saved. When He destroyed the world, in a flood, only eight were saved. After Christ's ministry, there were only a few hundred saved. After Pentecost, there were a few thousand. A few thousand, out of all the lands of the Jews and with the direct - unadulterated - teaching of Christ. Now, one third of the world. Probably not.

I didn't remove anything to do with free will. The Word of God did. It clearly states that God accomplishes His purpose and that God does as He wills and that God does all His good pleasure. I didn't say these things, God said them. God is Sovereign over all things. Therefore, if God is Sovereign, then man is not. There cannot be two whom are sovereign. So, if it's God's will that is sovereign, then man's will is subjugated to it and cannot be free. However, man's will has nothing to do with his Fallen inability. (As explained earlier.)

Man will not desire that which is contrary to his nature. Therefore, man's will is enslaved to his nature. God must alter that nature before a man will desire God. Having been freed from that which enslaved him, he will, out of the new nature, choose God and His Christ. This is not a demonic doctrine. It is simple fact, right from the Words of God and the use of common logic.
so you believe a Loving God, who left His Glory to become a Sacrifice, created people specifically for Hell?
 
P

Polar

Guest
#92
so you believe a Loving God, who left His Glory to become a Sacrifice, created people specifically for Hell?
listen...he said he was done with the thread but keeps popping up like one of those jack in the box thingies

I believe there is a spirit at work in calvinism that creates self righteousness and nothing good comes of it

probably you already know this

and yes, like any real good and faithful calvinist that is exactly what he believes, don't cha know? just a little sounding brass for effect

 
Jun 20, 2022
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#93
listen...he said he was done with the thread but keeps popping up like one of those jack in the box thingies

I believe there is a spirit at work in calvinism that creates self righteousness and nothing good comes of it

probably you already know this

and yes, like any real good and faithful calvinist that is exactly what he believes, don't cha know? just a little sounding brass for effect

you are indeed correct!
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#94
Actually, Christ came and died for the Elect. (John 10:11, 15) For starters.

I am not bothered by the number of those who do not believe - I am bothered by the number that say they are Christians. According to the last survey, one-third of the world claim to be Christians. This would seem to fly in the face of all the Bible historical accounts. When God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, there were only two saved. When He destroyed the world, in a flood, only eight were saved. After Christ's ministry, there were only a few hundred saved. After Pentecost, there were a few thousand. A few thousand, out of all the lands of the Jews and with the direct - unadulterated - teaching of Christ. Now, one third of the world. Probably not.

I didn't remove anything to do with free will. The Word of God did. It clearly states that God accomplishes His purpose and that God does as He wills and that God does all His good pleasure. I didn't say these things, God said them. God is Sovereign over all things. Therefore, if God is Sovereign, then man is not. There cannot be two whom are sovereign. So, if it's God's will that is sovereign, then man's will is subjugated to it and cannot be free. However, man's will has nothing to do with his Fallen inability. (As explained earlier.)

Man will not desire that which is contrary to his nature. Therefore, man's will is enslaved to his nature. God must alter that nature before a man will desire God. Having been freed from that which enslaved him, he will, out of the new nature, choose God and His Christ. This is not a demonic doctrine. It is simple fact, right from the Words of God and the use of common logic.
Matthew 5:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.
7 “Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall be shown mercy.
8 “Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they shall see God.
9 “Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called sons of God.
10 “Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
^
these are the true followers of God!
these would [[NEVER]] believe God made people for Hell!


those who would believe as such would fit these Verses found in Chapter 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, and drive out demons in Your name, and perform many miracles in Your name?’

23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Get away from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’”
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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#95
so you believe a Loving God, who left His Glory to become a Sacrifice, created people specifically for Hell?
No - I do not believe that is the teaching of Scripture. What Scripture teaches is, that God, in His Electing Love, chose some for glory. He passed by the others.

He has the right, as the Sovereign over His Creation, to do that. We, as citizens of the U.S., have given this same right to our President. He may commute the legal sentence of whomever he desires. By doing so, he does not cause or affect the outcome of others. All were guilty but he chose to show mercy upon a few.

Religionist, that buck against God's Sovereignty, would deny God this same right. Yet, Scripture is clear on this fact:

Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that hath mercy.


All of mankind has been sealed under sin. All of mankind is guilty before God. However, God has the right to show mercy upon those whom He chooses. This in no way affects those whom he does not show mercy because they are already guilty. However, to satisfy His Justice, another had to die in their place. Christ carried the Elect with Him to Calvary. He did not carry the whole of humanity because God did not need to justify them, since they were outside of His Mercy. This does not condemn anyone, they were already condemned.

This is why, those who are saved, have no room for boasting before God. He could have passed by that one as well.
 
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#97
No - I do not believe that is the teaching of Scripture. What Scripture teaches is, that God, in His Electing Love, chose some for glory. He passed by the others.

He has the right, as the Sovereign over His Creation, to do that. We, as citizens of the U.S., have given this same right to our President. He may commute the legal sentence of whomever he desires. By doing so, he does not cause or affect the outcome of others. All were guilty but he chose to show mercy upon a few.

Religionist, that buck against God's Sovereignty, would deny God this same right. Yet, Scripture is clear on this fact:

Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that hath mercy.


All of mankind has been sealed under sin. All of mankind is guilty before God. However, God has the right to show mercy upon those whom He chooses. This in no way affects those whom he does not show mercy because they are already guilty. However, to satisfy His Justice, another had to die in their place. Christ carried the Elect with Him to Calvary. He did not carry the whole of humanity because God did not need to justify them, since they were outside of His Mercy. This does not condemn anyone, they were already condemned.

This is why, those who are saved, have no room for boasting before God. He could have passed by that one as well.
first of all, the reference to Moses in Romans 9, are you aware of that discussion between Moses and God?

clearly you have no idea what this Verse is even saying here.

God told Moses to destroy enemy after enemy and it bothered Moses. what Moses never knew AND WE DO NOW KNOW is that God was killing off remnants from Genesis 6 [Nephalim].

so you are using a Verse for DEMONS to describe everyone else who [[((IS NOT CONNECTED))]] to the Nephilim?

Pharisee, are you?
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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#98
listen...he said he was done with the thread but keeps popping up like one of those jack in the box thingies

I believe there is a spirit at work in calvinism that creates self righteousness and nothing good comes of it

probably you already know this

Don't worry. This conversation is about to come to an end. FOR NOW.

I have spent decades defending the Doctrines of Grace, and by God's Grace will continue to do so.
 
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#99
Don't worry. This conversation is about to come to an end. FOR NOW.

I have spent decades defending the Doctrines of Grace, and by God's Grace will continue to do so.
there is no Doctrine called Grace. Jesus never taught that. He showed it upon the Cross. it is Who and What God is! it is [[NOT A DOCTRINE]] at all!
 
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Don't worry. This conversation is about to come to an end. FOR NOW.

I have spent decades defending the Doctrines of Grace, and by God's Grace will continue to do so.
Matthew 5:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.
7 “Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall be shown mercy.
8 “Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they shall see God.
9 “Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called sons of God.
10 “Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


Grace is NOWHERE MENTIONED but MERCY is!



i wonder how merciful God will be to Calvin who showed no MERCY?
or to his minions who have no mercy within them?