Eternal Hell, Annihilationism, or Universalism?
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Because their flesh wants to make them feel special like they earned something. Another outlet for works through pretending it’s grace.
How could evil people like Hitler and Satan himself ever be saved! They deserve to rot and burn in hell forever! but I? I’m a special snowflake chosen by god!
It’s funny I’m not decided either I just try to reconcile logical reasoning with what the Bible says, you know logical reasoning that god gave us to understand his sacrifice and love, but every time people come here with this burning desire to literally put 80-90% of all souls into existence in everlasting torture it pushes me towards those other viewpoints.
But don’t worry about the fact that 50% if not more of the earliest church fathers believed in universal reconciliation, we can ignore them and all the logical in-fallacies of love and justice.
Also I should of clarified universalism in this context means everyone comes to the saving grace of Christ, eventually no you can’t be saved outside of Jesus with other faiths.
Meaning eventually all will accept Christ as lord one day. Whether being purged in hell or in this life while alive.
How could evil people like Hitler and Satan himself ever be saved! They deserve to rot and burn in hell forever! but I? I’m a special snowflake chosen by god!
It’s funny I’m not decided either I just try to reconcile logical reasoning with what the Bible says, you know logical reasoning that god gave us to understand his sacrifice and love, but every time people come here with this burning desire to literally put 80-90% of all souls into existence in everlasting torture it pushes me towards those other viewpoints.
But don’t worry about the fact that 50% if not more of the earliest church fathers believed in universal reconciliation, we can ignore them and all the logical in-fallacies of love and justice.
Also I should of clarified universalism in this context means everyone comes to the saving grace of Christ, eventually no you can’t be saved outside of Jesus with other faiths.
Meaning eventually all will accept Christ as lord one day. Whether being purged in hell or in this life while alive.
In before you only have this life to accept Jesus:
“For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”
Don’t worry though only a one time only special exception because the sinners before the flood were extra special, worth getting to hear the gospel, but the lost tribes who die today without ever hearing the gospel tough luck, they should of somehow figured out the gospel of Jesus through nature.
“For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”
Don’t worry though only a one time only special exception because the sinners before the flood were extra special, worth getting to hear the gospel, but the lost tribes who die today without ever hearing the gospel tough luck, they should of somehow figured out the gospel of Jesus through nature.
At the end of days or whatever name someone wants to call it, isn't it said that when it is all said and done that every knee will bow and recognize Christ for who he really is?
Doesn't that sort of preclude the human souls from being damned for not knowing Jesus? I know that it is said satan and all his follower angels will be cast into hell. Isn't that kind of a strange thing to happen when God gives satan license to do his work here? And isn't that all part of the plan of God? Evil leads people to find salvation from evil and that could mean that satan serves that purpose. Why would he be an enemy of God? When God let him live to mess with people here while God knows all that is happening and gives satan the room to do that?
Just things that come to mind after reading a few of these last pages here. No offense intended.
Doesn't that sort of preclude the human souls from being damned for not knowing Jesus? I know that it is said satan and all his follower angels will be cast into hell. Isn't that kind of a strange thing to happen when God gives satan license to do his work here? And isn't that all part of the plan of God? Evil leads people to find salvation from evil and that could mean that satan serves that purpose. Why would he be an enemy of God? When God let him live to mess with people here while God knows all that is happening and gives satan the room to do that?
Just things that come to mind after reading a few of these last pages here. No offense intended.
I may be a bit rusty on Revelation but as I recall no one is in Hell until all is over and done. Including Armageddon if I'm not mistaken.
That's why I asked about every knee that shall bow. If every knee bows, and Jesus freed the souls in Hell during his three days in the grave, how does hell ever come into it? From the sound of the last days everyone is saved.
That's why I asked about every knee that shall bow. If every knee bows, and Jesus freed the souls in Hell during his three days in the grave, how does hell ever come into it? From the sound of the last days everyone is saved.
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The Book of Revelation does not say anyone will be forced to bend their knee.. It says everyone will bend their knee.. Once all people see and understand just how Awesome God is they will all be worshiping Him.. Those that are going to be cast into the lake of fire will worship Him because He is God not because they are going to be saved..
Yes you are rusty Hell and the eternal lake of fire are not the same place.. The book of Revelation reveals that Hell will be cast into the eternal lake of fire.. Meaning that hell is a temporary prison of souls.. Note the following passage from the book of revelation.. It reveals that the people in Hell will be gathered from it to face judgement and then Hell will be cast into the eternal Lake of Fire..
Revelation 20: KJV
13 "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. {14} And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. {15} And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
Note how it also reveals all those who's name was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the Lake of fire.. This can only be interpreted as confirming that universalism cannot be true because it is confirming some will be thrown into the Lake of Fire..
Yes you are rusty Hell and the eternal lake of fire are not the same place.. The book of Revelation reveals that Hell will be cast into the eternal lake of fire.. Meaning that hell is a temporary prison of souls.. Note the following passage from the book of revelation.. It reveals that the people in Hell will be gathered from it to face judgement and then Hell will be cast into the eternal Lake of Fire..
Revelation 20: KJV
13 "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. {14} And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. {15} And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
Note how it also reveals all those who's name was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the Lake of fire.. This can only be interpreted as confirming that universalism cannot be true because it is confirming some will be thrown into the Lake of Fire..
How about a partial universalist doctrine. Maybe God is going to eventually destroy only those that insist on their evil ways. Maybe God is going to give everyone, including those now deceived, a chance to know and serve Him. Wouldn't that be great? Maybe scripture even hints at that.
God is not going to tolerate evil to continue forever, which was introduced by Satan during his rebellion. The kindest thing for the third of the fallen angels, and any humans determined to embrace evil, is to destroy them. God tells us that is exactly their destiny.
God is not going to tolerate evil to continue forever, which was introduced by Satan during his rebellion. The kindest thing for the third of the fallen angels, and any humans determined to embrace evil, is to destroy them. God tells us that is exactly their destiny.
Yes the age of accountability..... subject to the letter of the law, death. All in the generation of Adam continue to fall short of the glory of God. . As in you will surely die and not suffer forever. . . just until one takes their last breath. All in the born again generation of Christ shall rise on the last day
If they have been given a new spirit as on whose name was written in the lambs book of eternal live from the foundation of the world.They will rise.
Death as to the letter is the cause of "hell"(a living breathing) suffering.It will be cast into the fire of God's judgement. It will not rise and condemn through corruption a dying death another entire creation.
If they have been given a new spirit as on whose name was written in the lambs book of eternal live from the foundation of the world.They will rise.
Death as to the letter is the cause of "hell"(a living breathing) suffering.It will be cast into the fire of God's judgement. It will not rise and condemn through corruption a dying death another entire creation.
Both makes logical sense, but I wouldn't be surprised if his grace is beyond measure where we're all worshipping him knowing that even the highest falling creature Satan is reconciled and worshipping him out of love.
Also, during the early church the view majority view was purgatorial hell, where those in it were refined until they reached Salvation through Jesus Christ. But reconciling it with Revelations seems like Annihilation is the end, can definitely see room for Partial Universalism given Christ preached to hell once before.
Full universalism seems hard to reconcile with "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." So it seems some are utterly destroyed.
Also, during the early church the view majority view was purgatorial hell, where those in it were refined until they reached Salvation through Jesus Christ. But reconciling it with Revelations seems like Annihilation is the end, can definitely see room for Partial Universalism given Christ preached to hell once before.
Full universalism seems hard to reconcile with "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." So it seems some are utterly destroyed.
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Also our current cannon was decided at the council based on what books were the most widely available at the time, not specifically based on something Heretical. Some books were thrown out as Heretical, but others were just not included because maybe just one Region had them and weren't widely translated, even though they were considered inspired. Others left out for obviously being considered uninspired.
There is the Apocalypse of Peter the Ethiopian version, with a verse that basically says god will save everyone, and it must be kept a secret so that people don't just go on sinning, the very same argument used against Universalism today kind of Ironic. I haven't researched much of the books left out I know many are gnostic / heretical, but I believe this might of been one that was regarded as inspired, but was just left out.
https://forum.evangelicaluniversali...e-of-peter-show-ur-in-the-early-church/3067/7
Jason Pratt's comment is a really good summary. Peter basically consigning people to hell willy nilly out of his hardness and not wanting to accept God that god will save them all (Kind of reminds me of Jonah), then God punishes him for 40 days in Hell to get a taste before he's allowed into heaven HAHA.
There is the Apocalypse of Peter the Ethiopian version, with a verse that basically says god will save everyone, and it must be kept a secret so that people don't just go on sinning, the very same argument used against Universalism today kind of Ironic. I haven't researched much of the books left out I know many are gnostic / heretical, but I believe this might of been one that was regarded as inspired, but was just left out.
https://forum.evangelicaluniversali...e-of-peter-show-ur-in-the-early-church/3067/7
Jason Pratt's comment is a really good summary. Peter basically consigning people to hell willy nilly out of his hardness and not wanting to accept God that god will save them all (Kind of reminds me of Jonah), then God punishes him for 40 days in Hell to get a taste before he's allowed into heaven HAHA.
Luke 1:41-44
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
