Eternal Hell, Annihilationism, or Universalism?

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#21
Are you implying children are born sinless? And we magically decide to sin at a certain age?
We are born with a sin nature. We will eventually choose sin. To choose sin, one must know the difference between good and evil.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#22
@Ahwatukee it's the same logical arguments free will or not god foreknew majority of all his creation angels included would go to everlasting hell, needs nothing but decided what they hey let's create things, because I have no need for them.

And the OT and NT have a lot to do with doctrine, nowhere else in the Bible do you go from 0 foreshadowing or mention of a core doctrine in the bible without it existing in both Old and New.

Sorry you can't cop out of your position with completely non biblical non sensical "Age of Accountability" you have to accept your position fully, that aborted fetuses, and the genocide of children are all in Eternal Hell today.

I fully accept your answer, just accept it to its full logical conclusion, billions upon billions who never had a choice are in everlasting conscious punishment.
I am not coping out here! You cannot do away with the information contained in the NT regarding eternal punishment in the lake of fire. Regarding the angels who rebelled against God, the lake of fire was created for them. And anyone who is not following Christ, is following Satan and will suffer the same eternal conscious punishment. The supportive words used in scripture such as "forever and ever, everlasting, eternal" mean exactly what they say. My position is very Biblical. It is not Biblical to you because it does not fit with the false teachings that you have adopted. There is no scripture that says, "and the wicked will go away into temporary punishment." The punishment will be never-ending.

Regarding the age of accountability, God is a righteous and just God. He is therefore not going to judge and condemn a child who dies at one years old, who doesn't even yet know he exists, nor has he committed any sins nor does he even know what sin is yet. So yes, there is an age of accountability and that is by God's righteous judgement. Regarding this issue, consider the following:

"For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy."

Regarding those billion upon billions who never had a choice, as I stated, God is the One who is doing the saving. For those He foreknew He predestined. And those He predestined, He called. As scripture states, "God has mercy upon whom He will have mercy and He hardens whom He will harden. It is by God Sovereign choice for those who have been saved and which was decided before the world ever began.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#23
Yes this makes sense, where you can even have an everlasting fire that burns the physical flesh forever and ever, but the consciousness which is provided through gods spirit is gone.

If that wasn’t the case then that means gods spirit is in hell with those people suffering also, which I don’t think that’s possible due to his nature, but haven’t researched that topic.

For conscious everlasting hell it requires gods spirit to reside in those people to keep them conscious.
Exactly death, as to the letter that causes suffering is that which is cast away never to rise and condemn through corruption another whole creation .

No god, no spirit. Know God, know the life of the Spirit.

No purgatory forever and ever. No limbo in between.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#24
2Sa 12:23 (KJV) But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

David said he was going to where is dead son was.
It would appear he was informed through prophecy. I don't think it set up a law that all men are not born into a corruptible body subject to the letter of the law, that kills and cannot create anew .
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#25
It would appear he was informed through prophecy. I don't think it set up a law that all men are not born into a corruptible body subject to the letter of the law, that kills and cannot create anew .
The body isn’t redeemable it’s going to perish but we aren’t the body, we are the soul or spirit which isn’t capable of sin until the law comes to us. As Paul says, I was alive once without the law, but the law came, sin revived and I died.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#26
I am not coping out here! You cannot do away with the information contained in the NT regarding eternal punishment in the lake of fire. Regarding the angels who rebelled against God, the lake of fire was created for them. And anyone who is not following Christ, is following Satan and will suffer the same eternal conscious punishment. The supportive words used in scripture such as "forever and ever, everlasting, eternal" mean exactly what they say. My position is very Biblical. It is not Biblical to you because it does not fit with the false teachings that you have adopted. There is no scripture that says, "and the wicked will go away into temporary punishment." The punishment will be never-ending.
The bible does not inform us of regarding the angels who rebelled against God, will suffer the same eternal conscious punishment. The punishment is in respect to the temporal .The letter of the law the source of suffering and annihilation

Death as a living hell (suffering )

Revelation 20:13-14 King James Version (KJV) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

This is the second death.the source of suffering and dying

Jonas 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

Philippians 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#27
The body isn’t redeemable it’s going to perish but we aren’t the body, we are the soul or spirit which isn’t capable of sin until the law comes to us. As Paul says, I was alive once without the law, but the law came, sin revived and I died.
I would agree. But before the written was written the law was in effect. By it mankind fell. In that way flesh giving birth to flesh is separate from God giving his Spirit.Children are gift of the lord not a gift of the flesh. No spirit, no life. In that way every child of God has the temporal spirit of God. Whether they become born again is another work of the Spirit. .One of mercy and grace.

when it was written does not affect the outcome. It establishes it was a thought of God.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

How many babies names are written in the lambs book of life but did not experience the pain of corruption outside of the womb? I think the revelation given to David was a exception.

Not a salvation issue.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#28
I would agree. But before the written was written the law was in effect. By it mankind fell. In that way flesh giving birth to flesh is separate from God giving his Spirit.Children are gift of the lord not a gift of the flesh. No spirit, no life. In that way every child of God has the temporal spirit of God. Whether they become born again is another work of the Spirit. .One of mercy and grace.

when it was written does not affect the outcome. It establishes it was a thought of God.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

How many babies names are written in the lambs book of life but did not experience the pain of corruption outside of the womb? I think the revelation given to David was a exception.

Not a salvation issue.
I don’t believe God condemns people who don’t know right from wrong I mean God didn’t condemn those before the flood, Jesus went and preached to them so that it was a just judgement.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#29
The body isn’t redeemable it’s going to perish but we aren’t the body, we are the soul or spirit which isn’t capable of sin until the law comes to us. As Paul says, I was alive once without the law, but the law came, sin revived and I died.
We get a new body made like unto Christs'. We receive an incorruptible body.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#30
I don’t believe God condemns people who don’t know right from wrong I mean God didn’t condemn those before the flood, Jesus went and preached to them so that it was a just judgement.
It was the desire of God to create mankind to follow his will of God not seen. They were not free to do the will of another and usurp His authority. .

They performed the will of another seen the temporal and faith the unseen will of God that did work in them died.

Death according to the letter of the law .And now corrupted flesh was passed down reckoned by the they eyes see. . the same corrupted flesh and blood Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God was clothed in for 33 years.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#31
It was the desire of God to create mankind to follow his will of God not seen. They were not free to do the will of another and usurp His authority. .

They performed the will of another seen the temporal and faith the unseen will of God that did work in them died.

Death according to the letter of the law .And now corrupted flesh was passed down reckoned by the they eyes see. . the same corrupted flesh and blood Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God was clothed in for 33 years.
You say it was the will of God to create man to follow his will and that they were not allowed to do another will yet in the next paragraph you said they went against Gods will and the will of God in them died.

How is that they were created ONLY to do his will yet they didn’t do it?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#32
You say it was the will of God to create man to follow his will and that they were not allowed to do another will yet in the next paragraph you said they went against Gods will and the will of God in them died.

How is that they were created ONLY to do his will yet they didn’t do it?

They were created to and given a law to protect his design . It was never his intention they do the will of another .The god of this world.

Jesus had food the disciples knew not of. The fruit of the father will the righteous fruit . No will in between, like Limbo .
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#33
They were created to and given a law to protect his design . It was never his intention they do the will of another .The god of this world.

Jesus had food the disciples knew not of. The fruit of the father will the righteous fruit . No will in between, like Limbo .
Ok I thought you meant that they were created without free will.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#34
Has anybody researched the three positions in depth?
That would simply be a waste of time. Which would be better spent in preaching the Gospel and warning sinners about eternal Hell. For all Christians the warnings of the Lord Jesus Christ should be sufficient. But the modern bible versions have made sure that they are weakened, by removing many verses from this passage:

MARK 9 (KJV): ETERNAL HELL MENTIONED THREE TIMES
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into Hell [Gehenna = the Lake of Fire], into the fire that never shall be quenched: [the place of eternal torment]
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [the place of eternal torment repeated twice for solemn emphasis]

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into Hell [Gehenna = the Lake of Fire], into the fire that never shall be quenched: [the place of eternal torment]
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [the place of eternal torment repeated twice for solemn emphasis]

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into Hell fire:[Gehenna = the Lake of Fire, the place of eternal torment]
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [the place of eternal torment repeated twice for solemn emphasis]
 
Jan 9, 2020
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#35
Nope sorry you don’t get to make yourself feel warm and fuzzy with the weakest doctrine of accountability of children, you’re just adding to the Bible and making up gods character as you go along.

Admit the fact with eternal damnation children without Jesus are in hell. Just because you feel it’s unjust changes absolutely nothing.

But don’t worry about all the other created beings who were created without choice foreknowing they will be in hell forever and ever, it’s perfectly just to create humans that you never really needed to condemn to hell forever.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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#36
Just because David believed something doesn’t mean you have the whole doctrine of age of accountability. And a pretty weak verse to support it.

With this same logic we can disprove everlasting hell because Jews didn’t believe in it.....
Paul also believed in an age of accountability:
Romans 7:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 I was ALIVE ONCE without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

Paul is speaking about when he was a child. If not, then when was he alive once?

Jesus also taught children will be in Heaven.
Matthew 19:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”
 
Jan 9, 2020
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#38
Paul also believed in an age of accountability:
Romans 7:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 I was ALIVE ONCE without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

Paul is speaking about when he was a child. If not, then when was he alive once?

Jesus also taught children will be in Heaven.
Matthew 19:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”
Such is the kingdom of heaven has nothing to do with then literally being in heaven if they die.
Paul also believed in an age of accountability:
Romans 7:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 I was ALIVE ONCE without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

Paul is speaking about when he was a child. If not, then when was he alive once?

Jesus also taught children will be in Heaven.
Matthew 19:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”
This is getting boring refuting out of context verses all you have to do is pull up any commentary.

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/romans/7-9.htm
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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#39
Such is the kingdom of heaven has nothing to do with then literally being in heaven if they die.


This is getting boring refuting out of context verses all you have to do is pull up any commentary.

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/romans/7-9.htm
You be as bored as you like. Commentaries are nothing more than a mans opinion. They carry no more weight than you or I’s.

Who are you to say Jesus spoke figuratively?
You are not given authority to claim that.
Jesus said Heaven is full of children. That you would put those children in Hell is disgusting and an insult to the Father.
 
Jan 9, 2020
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#40
You be as bored as you like. Commentaries are nothing more than a mans opinion. They carry no more weight than you or I’s.

Who are you to say Jesus spoke figuratively?
You are not given authority to claim that.
Jesus said Heaven is full of children. That you would put those children in Hell is disgusting and an insult to the Father.
But not as disgusting as billions of souls who had no choice of being born? That’s ok though because not children.

The kingdom of heaven verses are being like a child with that childlike faith, not literally heaven is filled with children.

Yes children are precious and human nature doesn’t apply to them until some arbitrary age limit , mental capacity, because the first mental concept out of their mouths isn’t mine me I selfishness, where you literally have to discipline it out of them.

Isn’t that then what the whole Bible is? Someone’s opinion on meaning? You can sit on your high horse of no these little precious tiny sinners get magically saved how dare you say they are in hell, while the billions upon billions can rot there because once that arbitrary rule of accountability kicked in ohh well tough luck.

Don’t worry though god is all loving and just, it’s the loving and just thing to do to throw 10 in a body of water against their will where I know only 2 will survive and make it.

For fun though you know, because he obviously needs nothing....Unless he does? Then he’s just like a fallable human being?