Eternal Salvation Secure?

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Salvation Secure?

  • Yes

    Votes: 16 84.2%
  • No

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • Got me dude......

    Votes: 1 5.3%

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,427
6,657
113
#41
[excerpt from Article]

"Thus, it seems that through imprecise translation, our understanding of the powerful words used originally to describe Eve’s role have been diminished. As a result, our understanding or Mother Eve has also been diminished. Suppose we had all, male and female alike, been taught to understand Genesis 2:18 as something like the following, “It is not good that man should be alone. I will make him a companion of strength and power who has a saving power and is equal with him.”"

[found here]

[h=3]Women in the Scriptures: The Real Meaning of the...[/h]
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#42
My salvation is absolutely secure... right up until the point I reject it.
Ahh so your faith is in yourself. and not God.

No. I would not think my salvation was secure either if I had to trust in my own ability..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#43
It's secure and trustworthy. I'm not going to reject it. You're not either. But that doesn't mean that nobody ever will.
How can it be secure, if you think ANYONE may reject it?

Your placing your and everyone elses eternity in their own hands, And rejecting the work of God in presalvation, salvation and post salvation promises and actions.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#44
Says you.

Where does the Bible say that they couldn't have opened the door? Nowhere. You make it sound as if God locked or sealed the door from without, but the Bible makes no such mention of any such thing. No, it simply says that God closed the door. Besides, Noah let a raven and a dove out of a window, didn't he? Who says that Noah or others couldn't have departed from the same. Also, there's this:

Genesis chapter 8 verse 13

And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.


Whatever this covering of the ark was, Noah obviously had the ability to remove it.
Genesis 7:16 And the Lord shut him in.

Noah was instructed to apply pitch on the outside and the inside of the ark. This is symbolic of the blood. When God looks down on the ark He sees the pitch on the outside and when Noah looks up he see the pitch on the inside. Just the way God looks upon us under the blood of Christ. God looks down and see the blood of Christ and His wrath passes. We look up and see the blood of Christ and enter into His presence.

God shut the ark and Noah could not open it until he was safely carried through the great flood. So shall it be with those who are in Christ. Sealed and kept until the day of redemption when all is made new and eternal.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#45
Genesis 7:16 And the Lord shut him in.

Noah was instructed to apply pitch on the outside and the inside of the ark. This is symbolic of the blood. When God looks down on the ark He sees the pitch on the outside and when Noah looks up he see the pitch on the inside. Just the way God looks upon us under the blood of Christ. God looks down and see the blood of Christ and His wrath passes. We look up and see the blood of Christ and enter into His presence.

God shut the ark and Noah could not open it until he was safely carried through the great flood. So shall it be with those who are in Christ. Sealed and kept until the day of redemption when all is made new and eternal.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I like how people think they are more powerful than God, able to break HIS SEAL.

I can see noah trying to break the seal of God to get out of that ark, it was so horrible in there, and so great outside the ark, that noah decided he no longer needed saved.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#46
Guess I'm royally dense. Still don't get the connection between women pastors and Eternal Salvation Secure?
There is none; but that didn't stop him from connecting them.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#47
I like how people think they are more powerful than God, able to break HIS SEAL.

I can see noah trying to break the seal of God to get out of that ark, it was so horrible in there, and so great outside the ark, that noah decided he no longer needed saved.
I do not see Noah attempting to get out but I do see him attempting to open the ark to allow the poor souls drowning outside to be rescued. Of course it was not within Noah's authority to grant rescue to the condemned outside the ark. We cannot allow our human compassion to outweigh our obligation to warn souls of the consequences of their decisions especially in relation to Christ and the necessity to be saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,952
113
#48
Eve was not made equal to man, she was made from man, as his helpmeet, and is the glory of man (1Co 11:7-10) because she was made from him.

Man is made in the image of God, and because God has set man at the head of creation, he represents the glory of the headship and dominion God has over the world.
Woman was made from man in his image, in submission to her husband, reflecting the glory of him out of whom she was made, and is the image of God inasmuch as she is the image of man. (1Co 11:7-8).

Therefore, because she was intended to be in submission to the man, she should do nothing in the church that looks like she is trying to be equal in authority (1Tim 2:12).

The Kingdom hasn't changed since Paul.

It is the same kingdom now as it was when Paul grounded his command in the creation order.

And the command is clear, it applies to the church as well as to marriage--the husband is head of the wife as Christ is head of the church (Eph 5:3), and in the church the woman is not to appear to have authority over a man (1Tim 2:12).

You simply don't like God's creation order, and in preferring your politically correct view over the word of God, you sit in judgment on the truth of God's word, choosing not to believe it.


Elin, you are very wrong in your view of women before the Fall. The woman was not a " suitable helpmeet" as the older translations put it. Instead she was an "ezer-kenegdo," as the Hebrew transliteration says.

Kenedo is not truly "suitable." instead, it means the woman is the man's match - literally, "as in front of him." Kenegdo suggests that what God created for Adam will correspond to him. Thus the new creation will be neither a superior nor an inferior, but an equal. The creation of this helper will mean she will be his strongest ally in pursuing God's purposes and his first roadblock when he veers off course.

Ezer appears in the Old Testament 21 times - twice for the woman in Genesis (2:18, 20), three times for nations who Israel appealed for military aid (Isa. 30:5, Ezek. 12:14, Dan. 11:34) and SIXTEEN times for God as Israel's helper. (Ex. 18:4, Deut. 33:7, 26, 29; Psalms 20:2, 33:20, 70:5, 889:19, 15:9, 10,11; 121:1-2, 124:8, 146:5, Hosea 13:9). So rather than just helper, we need to upgrade that ezer to "strong helper".

All the above references were in a military context, and the same exact word is used of Eve. Therefore, the woman needs to be referred to as an ezer-warrior, whom God has deployed to break the man's loneliness by soldiering with him wholeheartedly and at full strength for God's gracious kingdom. The man needs everything she brings to their global mission.

Support for this military mission also comes from both Ruth and the Proverbs 31 woman - both are called women of valour (hayil), Paul rallies believers, both men and women to "put on the whole armour of God, " in preparation to do battle with the evil one. Thinking of the ezer as a warrior is entirely consistent with how Scripture views women, before the Fall, and especially after Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law and death. (Gal. 3:13).

The order of creation is not that a woman is the lower, inferior creature, submissive to the man. Instead, she was created to be an equal, the strong warrior who worked together with her husband against the forces of evil. Sadly, both fell in the Garden, which changed things for thousands of years. But the man was as complicit in the fall as the woman, for the woman wasn't even created when God gave Adam the command not to eat of the tree of Life. He directly disobeyed God, and Paul is certainly aware of this, as he fingers Adam as at fault for this!

"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come." Romans 5:12-14

There is no denying the man is the head of the woman in marriage, although submission has to be voluntary, or it is slavery. But in the Kingdom of God, women are the man's equal in "occupying till Christ returns."

As for the man being over the woman in "authority" in 1 Tim. 2:12, you better study the Greek gain. The word for "authority" is in fact authentein. It is a hapax legomena, which appears only once in the New Testament. The real word for "authority" is exousia, which is a noun, which authentein is not. (It is an verb - an infinitive!) It requires some dishonest translating of the word, adding verbs like "usurp" to the text, when a single word is able to translate. Contemporaneous sources contain over 50 different varying uses of the word authentein, making it difficult to translate the word. However, "to domineer" would probably be a reasonable translation, especially when one realizes Paul was writing to Timothy in Ephesus, with its history of the priestesses of Artemis trying to dominate men.

Authority, and forever to all women, is simply a very bad translation, which has led to bad doctrine for many centuries. Paul knew what he was doing, when he picked the word authentein, over the word exousia. He did not want men to have authority over all women for all time. He just wanted to correct a problem in the Ephesian church. Because no Christian should domineer over another, ever!
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#49
Elin, you are very wrong in your view of women before the Fall. The woman was not a " suitable helpmeet" as the older translations put it. Instead she was an "ezer-kenegdo," as the Hebrew transliteration says.
I was addressing the NT teaching on the creation order (1Tim 2:13) and the NT teaching to women, which is necessarily after the fall, and is grounded in the reation order, where

man is the glory of God, and woman is the glory of man;

God is the head of Christ, Christ is the head of man, and man is the head of woman;

the woman is to be submissive to her own husband like Sarah who obeyed Abraham and called him Lord;

the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head;

in the assembly the woman is to learn in quietness and full submission; and

in the assembly the woman is not to teach or have authority over a man.
 
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Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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#50
.
Edit of previous post immediately above. . . . . . .


I was addressing the NT teaching on the creation order (1Tim 2:13; 1Co 11:8-9) and the NT teaching to women, which is necessarily after the fall, and is grounded in the creation order,
 
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Nov 14, 2012
2,113
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#51
Ok..my wife's grandmother, a very GODLY lady, ended up with demensia and altzheimers in her last days. She stopped attending church, stopped reading the BIBLE, stopped tithing, and she would curse 'like a sailor". Does that mean that her salvation in CHRIST, in which she had been a very faithful gospel sharing CHRISTIAN for decades, is gone? Another person that comes to mind is my father-in-law. He was my youth team leader, chairman of the deacons, a Sunday School teacher, a very outspoken warm hearted CHRISTIAN man that was a shining example of helping others. He has never held back when it comes to financially sharing and being there for others, even complete strangers. Recently, he suffered from a stroke, but came back with no apparent physical disabilities. However, our family is now seeing a complete change in his attitude...he has dropped by the wayside in church attendance, He is always telling others to 'GO to H......L !! He gets very beligerant and evil, slamming his fists on tables, yelling, screaming, getting upset at watching the recent TV news events. My family can no longer stand to be around him because he is extremely Negative at all times. I know this man had a passion for Christ and others because he was such an inspiration to me, personally. Now....things have changed. I just can't imagine JESUS CHRIST snubbing him.
Mental illness does not cause someone to lose salvation
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,952
113
#52
.
Edit of previous post immediately above. . . . . . .


I was addressing the NT teaching on the creation order (1Tim 2:13; 1Co 11:8-9) and the NT teaching to women, which is necessarily after the fall, and is grounded in the creation order,
I was addressing the teaching on the creation of women, which is not reflected in Fall, and the fact that Jesus came to set us free from the consequences of the Fall - including sin, death and the fact that women are seen as somehow "second" to men. God created woman to be an ezer warrior, and to stand equally with the man, to fight against sin and evil, even in the garden. Obviously, both the man and the woman failed to stand against the attack of the serpent, but we can praise God he set us free from that first sin through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#53
Elin said:
I was addressing the NT teaching on the creation order (1Tim 2:13; 1Co 11:8-9) and
the NT teaching to women, given necessarily after the fall, and is grounded in the creation order, where

man is the glory of God, and woman is the glory of man;

God is the head of Christ, Christ is the head of man, and man is the head of woman;

the woman is to be submissive to her own husband like Sarah who obeyed Abraham and called him Lord;

the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head;

in the assembly the woman is to learn in quietness and full submission; and

in the assembly the woman is not to teach or have authority over a man.
I was addressing the teaching on the creation of women, which is not reflected in Fall,
However, the NT does ground, in the creation order before the Fall, its teaching on women after the fall, right?

So the NT does bring the creation order before the Fall to bear on God's order, given above, after the Fall, right?
 
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