Eternal security is obedience

[John146]

Still waiting on Scripture from Paul's epistles...

Jesus and all of the apostles taught such. The problem is that the discussion always gets skewed by the faith + works meme to mean only doing good works. Those are what are rewarded (or not rewarded if they burn up).

Works also includes doing evil. Many scripture passages have to be ignored or twisted to assert that man doesn't have to keep himself pure to be saved.

 

[Persuaded]

Jesus and all of the apostles taught such. The problem is that the discussion always gets skewed by the faith + works meme to mean only doing good works. Those are what are rewarded (or not rewarded if they burn up).

Works also includes doing evil. Many scripture passages have to be ignored or twisted to assert that man doesn't have to keep himself pure to be saved.

If man has to keep himself pure to be saved and spent eternity in Heaven, then God wasted His time creating Heaven and sending His Son to die on the cross for the sins of mankind.
If your hope for eternal life is based on you keeping yourself pure, you will never see Heaven.

II Tim. 1:12

 

[FreeNChrist]

I lived like the world, fell back. Happens all the time. Saw more christians do it.

Then, according to Hebrews 6:4-6, if "falling away" means what you think it means, then for you and all those other Christians you have seen fall away, it is impossible for you to be brought back to repentance. Sorry for you.

 

[roaringkitten]

Here is an example of how some here bear false witness:

That's the worldview of that position. Anything that requires man to respond to and obey GOD is categorized as self-effort and works of law. It denies the reality that GOD gives man the ability to obey him (holy spirit), and embraces the doctrine of total inability as an excuse for sin.

But I said in post earlier in the thread, looking at the highlighted black section:

My redemption is eternal redemption, as Jesus is the captain of my salvation(Heb 2:10).

"Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." Heb 9:12

I am safe in His blood, for His blood is eternal(Rev 19:13). His blood and grace teaches me to serve the living God(Heb 9:14, Titus 2:11-14), and because of His blood sacrifice, I strive to present my body as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God which is my reasonable service(Rom 12:1-2). My eternal destiny is secure, not because of what I've done, but because of who He is....He clothed me with the garments of salvation, covered with the robe of righteousness(Isa 61:10), which is His righteousness. I am complete in Him. My salvation is not temporary but complete as it was promised to us since before the world began(Titus 1:2).

"And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power" Col 2:10

"But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption. That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord." 1 Cor 1:30-31

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You are a perfect example of someone running around bearing false testimony about the grace of God and of believers of grace.

Let's see. Here's GOD's grace as I see it:

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:11-13​

The grace of GOD taught by "grace" believers is essentially the absence of having to do anything. Any commandment is labeled legalism. Obedience is called self-effort and works of law.[/INDENT]

 

[coby]

Then, according to Hebrews 6:4-6, if "falling away" means what you think it means, then for you and all those other Christians you have seen fall away, it is impossible for you to be brought back to repentance. Sorry for you.

That text is for mature believers I think. Demas fell back.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If man has to keep himself pure to be saved and spent eternity in Heaven, then God wasted His time creating Heaven and sending His Son to die on the cross for the sins of mankind.
If your hope for eternal life is based on you keeping yourself pure, you will never see Heaven.

II Tim. 1:12

Like I said, scripture must be ignored or twisted to deny the reality that we must keep ourselves pure.

And everyone who has this hope in [Christ] purifies himself, just as that one is pure. 1 John 3:3​

 

[FreeNChrist]

That text is for mature believers I think. Demas fell back.

Oh brother....

 

[Grace777x70]

Paul said that at the end of his life all had forsaken him except one or two people.

Paul didn't say that Demas lost salvation and was going to hell instead...he just said that Demas " having loved this present world , has deserted me and went to Thessalonica" 2Tim 4:10

 

[coby]

If man has to keep himself pure to be saved and spent eternity in Heaven, then God wasted His time creating Heaven and sending His Son to die on the cross for the sins of mankind.
If your hope for eternal life is based on you keeping yourself pure, you will never see Heaven.

II Tim. 1:12

Because of the offer and looking at the snake on the pole: believing our sin nature died with Christ, we can be set free from sin. That's why He came, to set us free from sin. Keeping yourself pure is making a choice.

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.*14*For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I lived like the world, fell back. Happens all the time. Saw more christians do it.

Then again, How? John says they can't do that..

Do you believe John lied. Or maybe those so called Christians need to test their faith?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here is an example of how some here bear false witness:



But I said in post earlier in the thread, looking at the highlighted black section:

They love it,,

It is ok if they do it, but not you..

They not only teach works, but do as I say not as I do (could this be be a product of their phariseeism??)

 

[FreeNChrist]

Let's see. Here's GOD's grace as I see it:

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:11-13​

The grace of GOD taught by "grace" believers is essentially the absence of having to do anything. Any commandment is labeled legalism. Obedience is called self-effort and works of law.[/INDENT]

As it says the "Grace of God" teaches us. Seems simple enough.

It seems some think God's Grace is insufficient for the job. That God needs them to give Him a hand and make sure folks are performing up to snuff. Believing that if not for themselves doing the work God would just be plumb out of business.

Grace teaches us to trust and depend upon Christ, and as we learn to do so more and more, we will be standing upright more and more, and saying 'No' to ungodliness more and more. Grace really does teach us. Even though some think Grace is insufficient for the job.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let's see. Here's GOD's grace as I see it:

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:11-13​

The grace of GOD taught by "grace" believers is essentially the absence of having to do anything. Any commandment is labeled legalism. Obedience is called self-effort and works of law.[/INDENT]

The same author said this.

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

so tell us ol wise man, why would paul tell timothy we are not saved by works, but by Gods mercy, as God has washed and renewed us. Then say we must work to keep this salvation?

Paul must have been confused, or at the very least. poor timothy.. How could he know what to believe.

No. It is you who are confused.

 

[Grace777x70]

The question remains - do we purify ourselves by self-effort?...or by bearing fruit His fruit of His life in us?

The first one is works-righteousness/holiness. ( false gospel )..the latter is Christ's righteousness and holiness being manifested in us. ( the pure gospel of the grace of Christ alone )

Jesus said.... The branch does not "bear" fruit of itself...we "bear" His fruit outwardly as we see Him in us...in our new creation in Christ.

We are transformed by beholding Christ ....the Holy Spirit does the transformation - not us...we simply manifest His fruit in us.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

are being transformed = passive in Greek - which means the action is being done to us - we are not doing it.

We purify ourselves by manifesting the fruit of union with Christ as we see Him - we become like Him because we are seeing our true selves in that mirror. We are one with the Lord in spirit.


We do not make "ourselves" holy.... we are holy now already in Him and His life and Spirit in us makes us holy in our outward behavior. The Holy Spirit is the One who transforms us.

 

[thepsalmist]

Hm, wonder if this works ....

The new creation is a seed .... the flower that blooms two weeks later is the "works" James talks about ...

The flower is the evidence that there is a seed beneath the ground, from which it sprung.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That text is for mature believers I think. Demas fell back.

No, the text is for people who wanted to return to law. Because they did not think faith was good enough.. Like HRFTD here, and the author of your text.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because of the offer and looking at the snake on the pole: believing our sin nature died with Christ, we can be set free from sin. That's why He came, to set us free from sin. Keeping yourself pure is making a choice.

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.*14*For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

were they saved by keeping their eyes on the snake. (faith in Gods word)

Or by working hard to do good works?

 

[gb9]

They love it,,

It is ok if they do it, but not you..

They not only teach works, but do as I say not as I do (could this be be a product of their phariseeism??)

reminds me of straining out gnats and swallowing camels. it's here everyday.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hm, wonder if this works ....

The new self is a seed .... the flower that blooms two weeks later is the "works" James talks about ...

The flower is the evidence that there is a seed beneath the ground, from which it sprung.

eph 2: 8-10 teaches this.

A new creation works.. it is their new nature.