Eternal Security - Most dangerous words ever preached: Once saved, always saved.

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Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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#61
I'm not denying any of that.
While you have simply ignored the verses in Hebrews as if they are non-existent.
Lucy it appears you ignored the scripture below, a saved believer has (Eternal Security) read it again :)

You aren't saved until your (Sealed) by the Holy Spirit, this puts a believer in the (Father's Hand) your name is in the Lambs Book of Life, Eternal Security 100%.

Do you deny eternal security as seen below, is there somebody bigger than the (Father) that will remove the Christian from his hand?

If a person pretends to be saved, goes to church every day of the week, tithes, walks and talks like a believer, and then does a 180 turnaround after 30 years, to the world in it's lustful sin?

That person was never sealed by the Holy Spirit, or in the (Father's Hand) simple :)

The believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit, unto the day of redemption.

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The Holy Bible (Clearly) teaches eternal security, as (Clearly) seen below.

John 10:27-30KJV
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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#62
I'm not denying any of that.
While you have simply ignored the verses in Hebrews as if they are non-existent.
It needs to be understood in context... not one verse in Hebrews denies eternal security.

Willful sin is a reference to sin that high handed sin, there was no sacrifice for this sin under the old covenant.
 

infinitekhanol

Active member
Jul 11, 2020
153
42
28
#63
"MessageOfTheCross asked

Is it possible for a Christian to lose his salvation? Under what conditions, if any, can one's salvation be forfeited? Millions of Christians live their lives as close to these questions as they can, gambling on the goodness and mercy of God to save them, continually, in their sin rather than from it. Millions more spend their faith on works attempting to offer a better sacrifice, but in reality bypass the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.


It is truth that the work of salvation our Lord Jesus did for mankind is irrevocable. It is final and a finished work. it is also truth that it is through faith we have access to the grace of God. It is equally truth that the grace and Truth declared to us by Jesus require us to shun ungodliness and any inordinate worldly pleasures. When we, in the integrity of our heart, are following God in spirit and in truth as Jesus shows us, and we sin ignorantly, the scripture says in Romans 8: 1 that there is now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, for the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Jesus said, when we continue with him, we shall know the truth and the truth shall make us free. once we continue to walk with him in faith, the power of the Holy Spirit will lead us to overcome the flesh. God judges the heart and not physical appearances.

However, when we sin presumptuously, the scripture says in Ezekiel 33:11 that the righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression. if he commits sin, all his righteousness shall not be remembered but for his iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. In this case, there is nothing like once saved, always saved. What happens is that while in sin, we remain under the care and protection of God as his offspring, as we see him clothing Adam and Eve to cover their nakedness after sin was committed but they suffered the consequences of their action. He makes rain fall on everyone irrespective of our deeds.

Upon sincere repentance, which entails ordering our thoughts and steps aright, we receive his mercy of forgiveness that ensures the end thereof is blessed provided we continue on the right part -- as in the case of King David and the Prodigal son. The Prodigal son was received because he made a U turn to return home and leave his prodigal lifestyle. He repented.

In St Paul's letter to Timothy, he mentioned at least 2 disciples who professed their faith in Christ but later went astray- Hymenaeus and Philetus for example. Paul said of them, I have delivered them to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme. The advise to us is that let him that thinks he stands take heed lest he falls (Corinthians 10:12).

The Lord knows those who are his and all who belong to the Lord must turn away from evil (2 Timothy 2:19)

St Paul told Timothy to avoid greedy motives, pursuing instead righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and the gentleness that befits a man of God. (These are works of faith.) To love is a work of faith for a believer. Our faith must produce godly results and our work must be predicated on faith.

HOLINESS TO THE LORD.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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#64
Once Saved Always Saved is the biggest man made fraud; Made to order for those who continue to walk as babes, walking as the gentiles walk:

Ephesians 4:17-19 KJV
[17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, [18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: [19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

OSAS facilitates what these scriptures speak against.
You have it exactly backwards, Jesus only offers one type of salvation .... it is eternal life.

It is only within that place of eternal security/OSAS that one can walk the worthy, victorious walk in Him,

If you are not living in the Law of Liberty then one is in a place of hypocrisy....

......why because Christ brings us freedom by eternal secure salvation, HE has forever broken trying to complete the standards of God by one's own power and self-effort.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
2,674
896
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#65
You have it exactly backwards, Jesus only offers one type of salvation .... it is eternal life.

It is only within that place of eternal security/OSAS that one can walk the worthy, victorious walk in Him,

If you are not living in the Law of Liberty then one is in a place of hypocrisy....

......why because Christ brings us freedom by eternal secure salvation, HE has forever broken trying to complete the standards of God by one's own power and self-effort.
I Agree 100%, Big Smiles!

There's only one type of salvation eternal life!

The cults of Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism to mention a couple are on the same wave length as many of the responders.

They preach a fear based false salvation, stay in their cult, obey the leaders, and you will be ok, smiles.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
28,578
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#66
Satan says YOU SHALL NEVER DIE while in disobedience to God.

little one, when the Word speaks, be believing, not unbelieving; be hearing, do not be deaf:

I AM the Resurrection and the Life: he who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live,
and whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#67

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
28,578
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#68
Jesus spoke very negatively against hypocrites.

He's pretty harsh on unbelief, too - it is for this, as at Meribah, accusing God of being a murderer, redeeming them only in order to kill them, that the children of Israel were given the curse of law and made to wander the wilderness for 40 years. 'because of unbelief' they did not enter His rest.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,986
679
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#69
I Agree 100%, Big Smiles!

There's only one type of salvation eternal life!

The cults of Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism to mention a couple are on the same wave length as many of the responders.

They preach a fear based false salvation, stay in their cult, obey the leaders, and you will be ok, smiles.
I think this could be the best way to explain and refute Lucy's argument against Hebrews 10:26 against having the "knowledge of the truth." We are not saved by 'receiving the knowledge of the truth.' In one way or another, these cults have receive some truth yet they are not saved. Example, they received that the Father is God and that's one knowledge of truth, they know that Christ died, buried and have resurrected and that's another knowledge of the truth, yet we know them they are not really in the truth. They never receive Christ, who is the truth can save only save them. They put/mix works denying the sufficiency of Christ salvation.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
3,808
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#70
If you want to understand how salvation is not OSAS, you will need to study the Tribulation epistles, Hebrews to Revelations.
Do you believe once saved stay saved ( as i prefer ) in the church age ?
 

Benadam

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
957
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#71
These jokers would have all men burn in hell except their pharisee-ical, hypocriticial I don't sin selves.......
This post lacks any real faith in Jesus.

Greater is HE that is in us than he that is in the world.

WOW MAN...is this what all Catholics believe? Is your personal Jesus seriously that weak and inept?

MINE says he will KEEP ME BY HIS POWER......through the FAITH HE BEGINS, FINISHES AND COMPLETES IN ME
Did I write something about Jesus not being in control? Perhaps the unweened find discipline difficult to understand.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
3,808
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#72
Once Saved Always Saved.

Is a deception.

Period.
What do you believe OSAS is ? . I'm genuinely interested in how you understand this ? And how ( specifically) did you become born again ? What's your understanding of the components of salvation . Meaning , what changes from being a non Christian to a Christian?
 
Feb 29, 2020
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#73
I AM the Resurrection and the Life: he who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live, and whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?
This promise is for them who obey his words. You can’t just take this verse and apply it to OSAS.

Philippians 1:29 KJV
[29] For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
3,808
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#74
Once Saved Always Saved is the biggest man made fraud; Made to order for those who continue to walk as babes, walking as the gentiles walk:

Ephesians 4:17-19 KJV
[17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, [18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: [19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

OSAS facilitates what these scriptures speak against.
Why do you assume those that hold to once saved , stay saved are sinning more than those that hold to CS . For what its worth, some of the worst behaviour I've seen has been from those who hold to conditional salvation .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
3,808
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#75
"Lose it" accidently? no. Wilfully, knowingly, walk away from it? Yes. Otherwise there is no such thing as free will.
Can you 'walk away 'in heaven ? no of course not . I believe in free will ( im not a calvinist ) but I recognise no issue concerning free will and once saved, stay saved . We wont be arguing about free will in heaven . No one will be crying out " let me out , I've changed my mind I want to burn in hell forever . " no , and no Christian should argue about free will after Jesus has saved him . We should be relieved and thankful that we cannot' fall out' or' walk away ' .
 
Feb 29, 2020
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#76
He's pretty harsh on unbelief, too - it is for this, as at Meribah, accusing God of being a murderer, redeeming them only in order to kill them, that the children of Israel were given the curse of law and made to wander the wilderness for 40 years. 'because of unbelief' they did not enter His rest.
It was because of disobedience and sin. Which speaks volumes of those who claim they are believers yet disobey the Lord’s sayings.

Numbers 14:32-34 KJV
[32] But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness. [33] And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness. [34] After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,654
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#77
Well only he can clarify... i do not know what he believes but having read his OP several times and referring to the finished work of Jesus..
The funny thing is that *MessageofTheCross* simply reproduces the writings and sermons of the Swaggarts, and insists that the cross itself is the key to everything (while ignoring the totality of the finished work of Christ, and the subsequent work of the Holy Spirit).

When someone insists that only the cross matters, then that person should be fully convinced of the eternal security of the believer. But it seems that there is some false theology which the Swaggarts have promoted and MOTC has adopted.

Why do genuine Christians believe that their salvation is eternally secure? Because (in a nutshell) SALVATION IS ENTIRELY OF THE LORD from start to finished. Even Jonah -- the prophet who tried to run away from God -- knew this without the shadow of a doubt.

JONAH 2: SALVATION IS OF THE LORD
1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.
5 The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her barswas about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
7 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
9 But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will paythat that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
9,917
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#78
The funny thing is that *MessageofTheCross* simply reproduces the writings and sermons of the Swaggarts, and insists that the cross itself is the key to everything (while ignoring the totality of the finished work of Christ, and the subsequent work of the Holy Spirit).

When someone insists that only the cross matters, then that person should be fully convinced of the eternal security of the believer. But it seems that there is some false theology which the Swaggarts have promoted and MOTC has adopted.

Why do genuine Christians believe that their salvation is eternally secure? Because (in a nutshell) SALVATION IS ENTIRELY OF THE LORD from start to finished. Even Jonah -- the prophet who tried to run away from God -- knew this without the shadow of a doubt.

JONAH 2: SALVATION IS OF THE LORD
1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.
5 The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her barswas about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
7 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
9 But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will paythat that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.

I absolutely agree @MessageOfTheCross harps on one thing over and over again and it is not the full Gospel for sure.

Why do genuine Christians believe that their salvation is eternally secure? Because (in a nutshell) SALVATION IS ENTIRELY OF THE LORD from start to finished. Even Jonah -- the prophet who tried to run away from God -- knew this without the shadow of a doubt.
Amen and Amen!!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
28,578
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#79
This promise is for them who obey his words.
if you are not just forcing your own private interpretation in scripture, you can show me that in John 12.

He says whoever believes in Him will never die.
you say anyone saying "
you shall never die" is speaking for Satan.
do you believe Him, or do you not believe Him?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
28,578
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#80
It was because of disobedience and sin.
do you believe Him, or do you not believe Him?
dear child, that's the only question that matters.


So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
(Hebrews 3:19)
if you believe Him, trust Him. you should not think that His mercy 'causes sin'