Even So Faith, If It Hath Not Works, Is Dead, Being Alone.
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FreeGrace2 said:
If it were, then salvation is EARNED by what you DO and HOW you live.
The Bible refutes your ideas. Eph 2:8-9 tells us that we are saved by GRACE through faith, NOT of works.
Yes, I did.
If it were, then salvation is EARNED by what you DO and HOW you live.
The Bible refutes your ideas. Eph 2:8-9 tells us that we are saved by GRACE through faith, NOT of works.
Yes, I did.
Eph 1:4 is about BELIEVERS being chosen for service. The "us" in v.4 is defined clearly in v.19 as "us who believe".
But again, there are NO verses that teach that election is to salvation.
And keep in mind that Jesus chose/electted Judas in john 6:70, and he was never saved. So there goes your theory.
Only to those who are so biased that they can't see straight.
Those aren't the same thing. You are very confused. Salvation is by grace. It is unearned. Service is rewarded because it is earned.
Not even close to the same thing.
But again, there are NO verses that teach that election is to salvation.
And keep in mind that Jesus chose/electted Judas in john 6:70, and he was never saved. So there goes your theory.
Only to those who are so biased that they can't see straight.
Those aren't the same thing. You are very confused. Salvation is by grace. It is unearned. Service is rewarded because it is earned.
Not even close to the same thing.
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Matthew 7 is people who Jesus never knew. Not that they were actually converted and then lost eternal life.
The reason is comparing this with the likes of John 6:54 and 5:24.
Eternal salvation is given as a possession to a believer thru the Holy Spirit indwelling. So it isn't like God is in the sky and seperate from us.
Matthew 25.. the unprofitable servant... how are they described?
Does servant mean... an indwelled believer? Or someone paying lip service who was never converted?
But again... there will be fruit from some being saved... that is certain.
Doesn't mean though they will now always be faithful.
That is what God wants, but we sin all the time.
If we really get down to the nitty-gritty, how many believers posting in this forum have issues with pornography?
It is the archilles heel of Christian men these days.
Have they all lost eternal salvation?
No chance!
The reason is comparing this with the likes of John 6:54 and 5:24.
Eternal salvation is given as a possession to a believer thru the Holy Spirit indwelling. So it isn't like God is in the sky and seperate from us.
Matthew 25.. the unprofitable servant... how are they described?
Does servant mean... an indwelled believer? Or someone paying lip service who was never converted?
But again... there will be fruit from some being saved... that is certain.
Doesn't mean though they will now always be faithful.
That is what God wants, but we sin all the time.
If we really get down to the nitty-gritty, how many believers posting in this forum have issues with pornography?
It is the archilles heel of Christian men these days.
Have they all lost eternal salvation?
No chance!
I have been consistent.
Says who? Where do you find that? If the Bereans heard you say that, they would have "searched the Scriptures daily to see if what Granpa said was true". And they would have found that it isn't true.
What you say isn't true. Unless the Bible says it.
The Calvinist mind is an interesting thing. In spite of no verses to back you up, you insist everything is from election.
Why don't you believe just what the Bible SAYS?
Says who? Where do you find that? If the Bereans heard you say that, they would have "searched the Scriptures daily to see if what Granpa said was true". And they would have found that it isn't true.
What you say isn't true. Unless the Bible says it.
The Calvinist mind is an interesting thing. In spite of no verses to back you up, you insist everything is from election.
Why don't you believe just what the Bible SAYS?
All through the Bible we see that God have a problem with Sin (iniquity), even Satan got kick out of heaven because of iniquity.
Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12). But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.
Paul also says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. You wouldn’t know what sin was if there was no law.
Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Now in other writing Paul talks about do away with the animal Sacrificial law, but the royal law (Commandment) Paul talking here is the law for Salvation. The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his.
This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. When Jesus (the true Lamb of God) was sacrificed, he removed our past sins, not our future sins. If we accept Jesus as our sin offering, we are required to repent and get baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS ("there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved..."(Acts 4: 12).
This isn't the issue.
uh, "nothing more"??? It is the BEST thing EVER for the human race!! Why do you dis grace?
So, what is your point here?
Same question here.
You're losing me. What is your point?
The bolded words are unbiblical. If you had quoted the verse you cite, you would have learned that baptism isn't even mentioned in the verse.
Acts 4:12 - Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, according to Eph 2:8. Not works, not water baptism, nothing else.
uh, "nothing more"??? It is the BEST thing EVER for the human race!! Why do you dis grace?
So, what is your point here?
Same question here.
You're losing me. What is your point?
The bolded words are unbiblical. If you had quoted the verse you cite, you would have learned that baptism isn't even mentioned in the verse.
Acts 4:12 - Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, according to Eph 2:8. Not works, not water baptism, nothing else.
Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)
FreeGrace2 said:
This isn't the issue.
uh, "nothing more"??? It is the BEST thing EVER for the human race!! Why do you dis grace?
So, what is your point here?
Same question here.
You're losing me. What is your point?
The bolded words are unbiblical. If you had quoted the verse you cite, you would have learned that baptism isn't even mentioned in the verse.
Acts 4:12 - Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, according to Eph 2:8. Not works, not water baptism, nothing else.
OK, thank you. Great passages. Now, what is your point again?
When one quotes Scripture, they NEED to provide some explanation. iow, show me in either passage where one can lose salvation.
Plainly. Use the actual words that have convinced you.
Thanks.
This isn't the issue.
uh, "nothing more"??? It is the BEST thing EVER for the human race!! Why do you dis grace?
So, what is your point here?
Same question here.
You're losing me. What is your point?
The bolded words are unbiblical. If you had quoted the verse you cite, you would have learned that baptism isn't even mentioned in the verse.
Acts 4:12 - Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, according to Eph 2:8. Not works, not water baptism, nothing else.
OK, thank you. Great passages. Now, what is your point again?
When one quotes Scripture, they NEED to provide some explanation. iow, show me in either passage where one can lose salvation.
Plainly. Use the actual words that have convinced you.
Thanks.
Why do you rebellious children imagine that you are saved by grace through faith when you have never obeyed the gospel of God? It is written, rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. The epistle to the Ephesians is not written to those that be dead in trespasses and sins. It is written to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus.
The Ephesians became saints when they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. As it is written, whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. And again, he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
This is how the Ephesians were saved by grace through faith; and that not of themselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For they are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that they should walk in them. As it is written, where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. And again, faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
And until you obey the gospel of the grace of God, then you, o abominable man, shall have your part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Because the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Well hath Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James prophesied of you men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith, saying, there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. And again, these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Why dost thou not understand the Lord's speech? even because thou canst not hear his word. Thou art of thy father the devil, and the lusts of thy father thou wilt do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Fill thou up then the measure of thy fathers. How canst thou escape the damnation of hell?
The Ephesians became saints when they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. As it is written, whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. And again, he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
This is how the Ephesians were saved by grace through faith; and that not of themselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For they are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that they should walk in them. As it is written, where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. And again, faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
And until you obey the gospel of the grace of God, then you, o abominable man, shall have your part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Because the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Well hath Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James prophesied of you men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith, saying, there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. And again, these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Why dost thou not understand the Lord's speech? even because thou canst not hear his word. Thou art of thy father the devil, and the lusts of thy father thou wilt do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Fill thou up then the measure of thy fathers. How canst thou escape the damnation of hell?
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FreeGrace2 said:
Please define 'rebellious'. In Eph 2:8 Paul makes clear that we are NOT SAVED BY WORKS. So why do you keep insisting that works are necessary?
Please explain what you are referring to in clear and concise language.
OK, you've just demonstrated that you aren't even listening. Why should anyone pay attention to your posts?
Please define 'rebellious'. In Eph 2:8 Paul makes clear that we are NOT SAVED BY WORKS. So why do you keep insisting that works are necessary?
Please explain what you are referring to in clear and concise language.
OK, you've just demonstrated that you aren't even listening. Why should anyone pay attention to your posts?
As the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it, saith the LORD. And again, he that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him.
FreeGrace2 said:
Please define 'rebellious'. In Eph 2:8 Paul makes clear that we are NOT SAVED BY WORKS. So why do you keep insisting that works are necessary?
Please explain what you are referring to in clear and concise language.
OK, you've just demonstrated that you aren't even listening. Why should anyone pay attention to your posts?
OK, you don't want to have a conversation. You just want to ignore the posts of others and quote some verses that have no bearing or relevance to what I am discussion.
That's your business.
Please define 'rebellious'. In Eph 2:8 Paul makes clear that we are NOT SAVED BY WORKS. So why do you keep insisting that works are necessary?
Please explain what you are referring to in clear and concise language.
OK, you've just demonstrated that you aren't even listening. Why should anyone pay attention to your posts?
OK, you don't want to have a conversation. You just want to ignore the posts of others and quote some verses that have no bearing or relevance to what I am discussion.
That's your business.